Blood elves, high elves and what could have been

[Arrashi]

Do you work at Blizzard to say that with certainty? The door is open. They said they would be able to add a lot more races with the "Allied Race" Tag. Which exactly are those races you will never know until announced.

No, i watch interviews. And yes, im sure they will add another allied race with identical model. Seriously guys, at some point denial becomes pathological.

[Deleted]

No, i watch interviews. And yes, im sure they will add another allied race with identical model. Seriously guys, at some point denial becomes pathological.

Back to the identical model card I see. Already explained how that can be resolved. The Pathological here is that you guys are keeping the discussion going when a High elven allied race is not even going to affect you in any meaningful or major way. You are just doing it for the sake of arguing and gatekeeping.

[Arrashi]

Back to the identical model card I see. Already explained how that can be resolved. The Pathological here is that you guys are keeping the discussion going when a High elven allied race is not even going to affect you in any meaningful or major way. You are just doing it for the sake of arguing and gatekeeping.

How exactly will you make them stand out from belves and velves ? Give them 3 heads, 10 arms and 3 tails and then call them high elves ?

The fact that you guys still won't let it go, knowing you will never get them and that this train sailed long ago is astonishing.

[Obelisk Kai]

Back to the identical model card I see. Already explained how that can be resolved. The Pathological here is that you guys are keeping the discussion going when a High elven allied race is not even going to affect you in any meaningful or major way. You are just doing it for the sake of arguing and gatekeeping.

Explained by you. Not Blizzard. When Blizzard created a High Elf variant, they used the same model.

Your proposed solution is bunk.

Just because YOU think you've sussed the problem doesn't mean everyone else agrees or that the problem has been sussed. It hasn't been and it won't be this way.

The identical model remains the biggest barrier and always will be.

And consider this. The Nightborne model is based on the Night Elf model, yet it has received touches to differentiate them from the Night Elves such as the shape of the ears and musculature.

They did none of that for Void Elves. Because Void Elves, High Elves and Blood Elves are all the same race. There hasn't been the time to justify the divergence you use as the basis for your solution. And Blizzard clearly agrees, as if time weren't a factor they'd have altered Void Elves more.

[Deleted]

Explained by you. Not Blizzard. When Blizzard created a High Elf variant, they used the same model.

Your proposed solution is bunk.

Is that an argument? Are we going back to the "My overlords at Blizzard have a different opinion than you so you must be wrong and should not discuss this." page?

Fact Check: When blizzard created a high elf model, the blood elves did not even exist.

When blizzard then created the blood elf model, they changed the high elf model to a recolor, because the earlier version was terrible to look at and very low poly.

If you are going to once more transition into the "Blood elves are High elves, they are the same" Argument, may I remind you that we will (Probably) be getting Kul'Tiras humans, which are still humans (biologically speaking), but fatter and more gruff (Which is a result of a different lifestyle, I imagine their babies are not born with a Pipe in their mouth and a 'stache)?

[Obelisk Kai]

Is that an argument? Are we going back to the "My overlords at Blizzard have a different opinion than you so you must be wrong and should not discuss this." page?

Fact Check: When blizzard created a high elf model, the blood elves did not even exist.

When blizzard then created the blood elf model, they changed the high elf model to a recolor, because the earlier version was terrible to look at and very low poly.

If you are going to once more transition into the "Blood elves are High elves, they are the same" Argument, may I remind you that we will (Probably) be getting Kul'Tiras humans, which are still humans (biologically speaking), but fatter and more gruff?

What are you talking about?

The Blood Elves were present in the frozen throne expansion of WC3. The models in Vanilla were recolors of the Night Elf model because they couldn't justify the time and effort on a model for a race that was non playable.

And finally, you need to stop using the 'Blizzard overlords' argument too.

Blizzard have told you no. You don't get pretend they haven't. We don't debate with you solely on the basis of your head canon or personal fantasy.

[Arrashi]

Is that an argument? Are we going back to the "My overlords at Blizzard have a different opinion than you so you must be wrong and should not discuss this." page?

Fact Check: When blizzard created a high elf model, the blood elves did not even exist.

When blizzard then created the blood elf model, they changed the high elf model to a recolor, because the earlier version was terrible to look at and very low poly.

If you are going to once more transition into the "Blood elves are High elves, they are the same" Argument, may I remind you that we will (Probably) be getting Kul'Tiras humans, which are still humans (biologically speaking), but fatter and more gruff (Which is a result of a different lifestyle, I imagine their babies are not born with a Pipe in their mouth and a 'stache)?

You know the diffrence betwen kul'tiras humans and high elves ? That in case of high elves blizzard said they have no plans of implementing them.

[Deleted]

What are you talking about?

The Blood Elves were present in the frozen throne expansion of WC3. The models in Vanilla were recolors of the Night Elf model because they couldn't justify the time and effort on a model for a race that was non playable.

And finally, you need to stop using the 'Blizzard overlords' argument too.

Blizzard have told you no. You don't get pretend they haven't. We don't debate with you solely on the basis of your head canon or personal fantasy.

I am talking about WoW models here, High elven models being under question in particular. And yes, High elf models in vanila were a slight re-colors of the Night elf. Yet there were differences. I do not deny Blood elf existence in WC3.

I see both you and Arrashi play the "My overlords at Blizzard have a different opinion than you so you must be wrong and should not discuss this." again. Again, I do not deny what blizzard has said, nor do I have my own personal Headcanon. (The canon is in the game)

I do not use this argument, you do. You overreact and argue based on a statement from a blizzard employee somewhere, but let me tell you: This is a Forum. Forums are for a discussion between people. If you are trying to shut down this discussion on the basis of what Blizzard have stated, you do not contribute in any meaningful way to this discussion.

[Koroniss]

And the proponents for this or any other similar ingame cause should give up because why exactly? They don't have anything to lose as it stands. And in this case, like in most of the rest, they have their opponents actually working for them.

The proponents for character name/appearance changes, faction changes, PvP realms faction restrictions lifting, level boosters, hybrid classes actually being able to do more than just healing, demon hunters, classic servers and countless others were ridiculed and disregarded for ages in their respective timeframes. They've been subjected to the exact same contra arguments and behaviour I see here, for the most part boiling down to "Blizzard said NO a hundred times, give up already!" or even worse, "I wouldn't like what you'd like so drop it". Others are still fighting for what they desire, Ogres, Nagas, whatever races/classes/mechanics they want implemented. Most of those will never see the light of the day. But even then they have nothing to lose anyway, and frankly, I'd hate to see anyone fighting for what they consider a genuine improvement of the game as a whole give up simply because somebody else told them to drop it, at least not when they are doing no actual harm to anyone. No matter how tired I am of seing the same old, same old threads everywhere. That's called a spirit, as long as they are not doing anything wrong and hurting anybody (not to mention that in many cases it is the exact opposite, as they are often getting harassed themselves). I am always free to simply ignore their threads and move on with my game and life.

Ages ago, when Blizzard announced a new game they were planning to release, many liked it, many did not. The latter voiced their concerns, which resulted in StarCraft 1, my favourite game of all times, rather than WarCraft in space. I know it is in human nature to try and crush somebody else's harmless desires because one does not understand them, like them, agree with them or simply find them unfounded, but that's no reason not to be a good sport. What they want will never happen you are happy about that? Great, now leave them be, ignore these topics and let them happily chat with each other. The ones making the decisions won't care anyway, isn't that right? And if those people in charge would like them to stop, they will make them stop.

I've been away for more than 10 years, and frankly, now I got to fully remember why I actually hated these "discussions". It's mainly the opponents of any said idea who troll and spread negativity all over the place. The topics about High elves in the Alliance are just the worst violators thanks to Tolkien and the old RTS titles. But it's the same in any analogous topic.

See you all in 10 years. Be well, cheer up and don't forget to have some fun in this world we are all sharing, yet try not to have it on somebody else's expense, as the tides could turn at any given moment.

[Darktbs]

The identical model remains the biggest barrier and always will be.

And consider this. The Nightborne model is based on the Night Elf model, yet it has received touches to differentiate them from the Night Elves such as the shape of the ears and musculature.

They did none of that for Void Elves. Because Void Elves, High Elves and Blood Elves are all the same race. There hasn't been the time to justify the divergence you use as the basis for your solution. And Blizzard clearly agrees, as if time weren't a factor they'd have altered Void Elves more.

Actually the Nightborne/Night elf are the same with texture differences, the same happens to the VoidElfs/Blood elfs.

But your argument is based around the idea that "if" blizzard introduced High elfs, they wouldn't add something to differ them from BE.Which doesn't make sense considering how allied races work.

Like,the only difference bewtween Tauren and Highmountain are antlers and Tatoos and they became a Allied Race, why would it be differentt for High elfs?

[Deleted]

And the proponents for this or any other similar ingame cause should give up because why exactly? They don't have anything to lose as it stands. And in this case, like in most of the rest, they have their opponents actually working for them.

The proponents for character name/appearance changes, faction changes, PvP realms faction restrictions lifting, level boosters, hybrid classes actually being able to do more than just healing, demon hunters, classic servers and countless others were ridiculed and disregarded for ages in their respective timeframes. They've been subjected to the exact same contra arguments and behaviour I see here, for the most part boiling down to "Blizzard said NO a hundred times, give up already!" or even worse, "I wouldn't like what you'd like so drop it". Others are still fighting for what they desire, Ogres, Nagas, whatever races/classes/mechanics they want implemented. Most of those will never see the light of the day. But even then they have nothing to lose anyway, and frankly, I'd hate to see anyone fighting for what they consider a genuine improvement of the game as a whole give up simply because somebody else told them to drop it, at least not when they are doing no actual harm to anyone. No matter how tired I am of seing the same old, same old threads everywhere. That's called a spirit, as long as they are not doing anything wrong and hurting anybody (not to mention that in many cases it is the exact opposite, as they are often getting harassed themselves). I am always free to simply ignore their threads and move on with my game and life.

Ages ago, when Blizzard announced a new game they were planning to release, many liked it, many did not. The latter voiced their concerns, which resulted in StarCraft 1, my favourite game of all times, rather than WarCraft in space. I know it is in human nature to try and crush somebody else's harmless desires because one does not understand them, like them, agree with them or simply find them unfounded, but that's no reason not to be a good sport. What they want will never happen you are happy about that? Great, now leave them be, ignore these topics and let them happily chat with each other. The ones making the decisions won't care anyway, isn't that right? And if those people in charge would like them to stop, they will make them stop.

I've been away for more than 10 years, and frankly, now I got to fully remember why I actually hated these "discussions". It's mainly the opponents of any said idea who troll and spread negativity all over the place. The topics about High elves in the Alliance are just the worst violators thanks to Tolkien and the old RTS titles. But it's the same in any analogous topic.

See you all in 10 years. Be well, cheer up and don't forget to have some fun in this world we are all sharing, yet try not to have it on somebody else's expense, as the tides could turn at any given moment.

That was some MrBtongue comment right here. Bravo sir. Have a virtual like.

[Obelisk Kai]

Actually the Nightborne/Night elf are the same with texture differences, the same happens to the VoidElfs/Blood elfs.

But your argument is based around the idea that "if" blizzard introduced High elfs, they wouldn't add something to differ them from BE.Which doesn't make sense considering how allied races work.

Like,the only difference bewtween Tauren and Highmountain are antlers and Tatoos and they became a Allied Race, why would it be differentt for High elfs?

Please check the dressing room options on wowhead for Nightborne and Night Elves, you will see the Nightborne have upswept ears whereas Night Elves don't.

The antlers are enough of a difference to justify an allied race.

The Lightforging of the Draenei is enough to justify an allied race.

High Elves and Blood Elves are separated by eye colour alone (and, has been proven, there are blue eyed Blood Elves) but primarily by a political opinion.

Each allied race has SOMETHING to differentiate it from the parent race. High Elves do not.

In fact, when they added the model to the Alliance, they created a brand new variant with brand new lore to justify it.

The Void Elves are what you get when you asked for High Elves but for blizzard to make them a bit different somehow.

They literally did what High Elf fans have been asking them to do, same model with a difference, and it was TOO different.

What you want is a clone. They aren't giving you a damn clone.

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I am talking about WoW models here, High elven models being under question in particular. And yes, High elf models in vanila were a slight re-colors of the Night elf. Yet there were differences. I do not deny Blood elf existence in WC3.

I see both you and Arrashi play the "My overlords at Blizzard have a different opinion than you so you must be wrong and should not discuss this." again. Again, I do not deny what blizzard has said, nor do I have my own personal Headcanon. (The canon is in the game)

I do not use this argument, you do. You overreact and argue based on a statement from a blizzard employee somewhere, but let me tell you: This is a Forum. Forums are for a discussion between people. If you are trying to shut down this discussion on the basis of what Blizzard have stated, you do not contribute in any meaningful way to this discussion.

Shut down the discussion on the basis of what Blizzard has stated?

What?

The entire point of this thread is an argument about playable High Elves.

Blizzard has stated in word and deed they don't want it to happen.

Yet you want to carry this on regardless of what they say?

That's like arguing about Christianity but insisting nobody uses the bible for reference because it gets in the way of the discussion.

Your points are rendered obsolete by 'word of god' from the developers. And I am not going to flatter your head canon by pretending they aren't.

[Darktbs]

Please check the dressing room options on wowhead for Nightborne and Night Elves, you will see the Nightborne have upswept ears whereas Night Elves don't.

The antlers are enough of a difference to justify an allied race.

The Lightforging of the Draenei is enough to justify an allied race.

High Elves and Blood Elves are separated by eye colour alone (and, has been proven, there are blue eyed Blood Elves) but primarily by a political opinion.

Each allied race has SOMETHING to differentiate it from the parent race. High Elves do not.

In fact, when they added the model to the Alliance, they created a brand new variant with brand new lore to justify it.

The Void Elves are what you get when you asked for High Elves but for blizzard to make them a bit different somehow.

They literally did what High Elf fans have been asking them to do, same model with a difference, and it was TOO different.

What you want is a clone. They aren't giving you a damn clone.

1.Calm your tits, im not asking for a clone, i don't really care for the Whole High elf thing since i don't have character ideas for them.Im just here for the discussion.

2.You are giving a pass on ears and antlers but not on eye colors.

3-You are saying that they wouldn't add something to make High elfs different form their Horde counter parts while retaining what people want on High elfs.Hell, a variantion of skins and a selection of tatoos would do just that.

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Blizzard has stated in word and deed they don't want it to happen.

Yet you want to carry this on regardless of what they say?

That's like arguing about Christianity but insisting nobody uses the bible for reference because it gets in the way of the discussion.

Your points are rendered obsolete by 'word of god' from the developers. And I am not going to flatter your head canon by pretending they aren't.

I would agree with that, but considering Blizzard have gone back on their word before.You know....classic servers...

[Deleted]

Great example mate Obelisk, religion.

Oh dude, please tell me HOW MANY religious groups interpret the Bible/Kuran the right way?

[Obelisk Kai]

1.Calm your tits, im not asking for a clone, i don't really care for the Whole High elf thing since i don't have character ideas for them.Im just here for the discussion.

2.You are giving a pass on ears and antlers but not on eye colors.

3-You are saying that they wouldn't add something to make High elfs different form their Horde counter parts while retaining what people want on High elfs.Hell, a variantion of skins and a selection of tatoos would do just that.

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The ears of the Nightborne are just one of several differences between them and the Night Elves, but they are a distinctive physical alteration to the base model. That was not done with Void Elves.

And I did not say they wouldn't add stuff to an Alliance Elf. I am saying they have already done so. The Void Elves are the reward for the many years of begging for the thalassian model. They have tentacles and different hairstyles.

What? You think they are going to try again?

I would agree with that, but considering Blizzard have gone back on their word before.You know....classic servers...

It is the height of arrogance to compare the desire for High Elves to classic servers. That had a long and active community with high profile support driven by a desire to recreate the game as it was in 2004 and re-experience that.

This is about you not being able to play a race available to one faction on the other faction...right after a race that is a 90% match is added. You are simply not going to get the same level of support to get Blizzard to listen. And besides, the louder pro High Elf people shout the louder those opposed shout back. We aren't in a special bubble either where Blizzard only hears 'pro High Elf' voices and none of those opposed.

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Great example mate Obelisk, religion.

Oh dude, please tell me HOW MANY religious groups interpret the Bible/Kuran the right way?

Did you even read what I wrote?

I am assuming all those groups don't start by throwing those books away and then giving their own unsupported point of view.

[Deleted]

Did you even read what I wrote?

I am assuming all those groups don't start by throwing those books away and then giving their own unsupported point of view.

But that's just what they did. Or have you not heard of the Holy Inquisition and the infamaus Jihad view of the Kuran?

[Darktbs]

The ears of the Nightborne are just one of several differences between them and the Night Elves, but they are a distinctive physical alteration to the base model. That was not done with Void Elves.

And I did not say they wouldn't add stuff to an Alliance Elf. I am saying they have already done so. The Void Elves are the reward for the many years of begging for the thalassian model. They have tentacles and different hairstyles.

What? You think they are going to try again?

I agree,they did create a elven race for the Alliance with different features.The problem is that they go on and said that they are ex-blood elfs, a group that is supposely smaller then the High elf population and yet managed to be a Allied race.This sparkle the idea of High elfs because one, the ally didn't get High elf people asked, they got a mutated blood elf.


The notion that they would or would not create another race based on another race isn't far from reality because this is what allied races are.

Im not agaisn't or in favor but i can see where their argumments come from.Im all for Naga but i would be really pissed if they introduced some naga with Two leg version, this is not what i wanted and i would be vocal about it.

You nitpicking on "differences' is pointless because no matter if they added 15 elfs, they would make each and everyone have something that makes them stand out.
Hell you can have High elfs start worshiping Elune and have Tan-Silver skin, blue-white eyes(and 3000 damage passive) and they would be a justificable Allied race.Would they be accepted?Debatable.

It is the height of arrogance to compare the desire for High Elves to classic servers. That had a long and active community with high profile support driven by a desire to recreate the game as it was in 2004 and re-experience that.

This is about you not being able to play a race available to one faction on the other faction...right after a race that is a 90% match is added. You are simply not going to get the same level of support to get Blizzard to listen. And besides, the louder pro High Elf people shout the louder those opposed shout back. We aren't in a special bubble either where Blizzard only hears 'pro High Elf' voices and none of those opposed.
.

1-My comparison was that Blizzard said a big "NO" before and gone back on their word.Blizzard approach to things now is never say never, because they don't want to
look bad when they end up doing it.

2-"And besides, the louder pro High Elf people shout the louder those opposed shout back. We aren't in a special bubble either where Blizzard only hears 'pro High Elf' voices and none of those opposed."

People did shout agaisn't Legacy servers, i did it as well(i believe Classic servers add nothing to the current game)people were vocal agaisn't and pro with the server but they were added anyway.People were vocal pro and agaisn't Dh but they were added anyway.

[Garfurion]

Explained by you. Not Blizzard. When Blizzard created a High Elf variant, they used the same model.

Actually when Blizzard created WoW High and Blood Elves used the Night Elven Model with just a different skin, which was consistent with Warcraft 3 where the archers of Night Elves and High/Blood Elves also used the same models. It wasn't until TBC launched and Blood&High Elves suddenly looked different overnight because of game-play reasons. High and Blood Elves NPCs having different eye colors and different color preferences for clothes (blue vs red) is also a result of game-play reasons.

Models being reused by Blizzard is typically a design choice (based on time investment) rather than lore.

[Arrashi]

Actually when Blizzard created WoW High and Blood Elves used the Night Elven Model with just a different skin, which was consistent with Warcraft 3 where the archers of Night Elves and High/Blood Elves also used the same models. It wasn't until TBC launched and Blood&High Elves suddenly looked different overnight because of game-play reasons. High and Blood Elves NPCs having different eye colors and different color preferences for clothes (blue vs red) is also a result of game-play reasons.

Models being reused by Blizzard is typically a design choice (based on time investment) rather than lore.

Actually the reason was that high elf models in vanilla looked horrible. They were one of the worst models in the game, it felt like a placeholder somehow made it to live release.

[Obelisk Kai]

Actually when Blizzard created WoW High and Blood Elves used the Night Elven Model with just a different skin, which was consistent with Warcraft 3 where the archers of Night Elves and High/Blood Elves also used the same models. It wasn't until TBC launched and Blood&High Elves suddenly looked different overnight because of game-play reasons. High and Blood Elves NPCs having different eye colors and different color preferences for clothes (blue vs red) is also a result of game-play reasons.

Models being reused by Blizzard is typically a design choice (based on time investment) rather than lore.

That was the point I was making with that statement.