Warchief Sylvanas, everyone.

[Sluvs]

Sure, Legion agents infiltrated Alliance. But it's Alliance's job to figure it out and prevent the worst from happening, whereas they didn't even notice anything.

They gloriously fucked up.

IMO they have their share of responsibility, but let's face it this is what the legion does. They are trained to infiltrate and destroy, and they have a lot of experience doing that.

[ls-]

IMO they have their share of responsibility, but let's face it this is what the legion does. They are trained to infiltrate and destroy, and they have a lot of experience doing that.

That's the problem I have w/ it. They refuse to bear responsibility, hardly anyone even accepts it either in game, or on the forums. People prefer to pretend that that fuckup had never happened and it's evul Horde's doing

[Raelbo]

I'm not trying to take sides or anything but, to be fair, an Alliance leader did selflessly sacrifice himself to save his men. Meanwhile in the same battle, the Horde leadership's desire to save their own skins instead of sacrificing themselves like said Alliance leader caused the assault on the Tomb of Sargeras to immediately fall apart.

Seriously?

Ok I don't dispute Varian's selfless act. It was ofc heroic. But to dismiss the Horde actions as such? pfft

Sylvanas ordered the retreat upon the order given to her by her dying warchief, who was dealt a mortal blow on the battlefield in the selfless act of putting himself on the front lines along with all of the Horde leadership. And the cinematic made it pretty clear that any rational assessment of the Horde situation was that the battle was lost. "Sacrificing themselves like said Alliance leader" would not have been heroic so much as idiotic because the sacrifice, unlike Varian's, would have served no purpose other than to scupper the prospects of the Horde's continued contribution to the conflict. The battle was lost, Horde leadership (Vol'jin) was trying to salvage the war. In his words "Don't let the Horde die this day". Sylvanas even pauses before calling the retreat. You can see she's not comfortable with giving that order, but that she really has no choice.

I mean seriously, you're trying to argue that they should have gone on fighting? To what end? As Genn said "without the Horde, we'll be overrun." This statement holds equally true whether the Horde retreats or are slaughtered. Either way the Horde were not going to be giving any further assistance to the Alliance, and it had absolutely nothing to do with their decision to retreat.

The simple fact is that the Broken Shore was a carefully laid trap, designed by Gul'dan to break the Horde and the Alliance. And it succeeded. Only Sylvanas' order to retreat and Varian's personal sacrifice allowed their respective factions to salvage anything from what was, otherwise, an unmitigated disaster.

[deviantcultist]

My condolences for people who might be forced to play Horde due to guilds or majorities. The Horde vibe is too toxic for anyone who doesn't actually "like" it.

[Arrashi]

My condolences for people who might be forced to play Horde due to guilds or majorities. The Horde vibe is too toxic for anyone who doesn't actually "like" it.

And is still better than blandliance.

[Sigxy]

The Horde's selfless leadership in the war against the Legion

Oh I can buy that. All the PLAYERS who is part of the Horde who ran the different order halls against the Legion, while she was starting a war with the Vrykul people who didn't even aggravate her, and try to steal their most importan Val'Kyr - and she wanted to control them all.

Sylvanas though, selfless leadership? SNORT.

And also, that "For the horde" part in the trailer, as I said in a different thread: Sounds absolutely forced and pretty bad. I can only see it as a "Uh, uh, uh... okay the Horde is faltering, what do I do.. oh right, there are no elves here other than me so that's an easy thing then, they are all obsessed with these words: FOR THE HORDE!"

So, I'm leaning on the "clearly lost it" part~

My condolences for people who might be forced to play Horde due to guilds or majorities. The Horde vibe is too toxic for anyone who doesn't actually "like" it.

Yup. Horde player eversince Blood Elves became playable and started a RP guild still running to this day and disliked Sylvanas eversince Warcraft 3. I've already had hate coming my way because of that. '.'

[Aeula]

My condolences for people who might be forced to play Horde due to guilds or majorities. The Horde vibe is too toxic for anyone who doesn't actually "like" it.

Still better than playing a Human, Small Human, REALLY Small Human, Purple Human or Werewolf Human though.

The Horde at least has variance in their races and a reason to give players who don't play Orcs or whatever the dominant race is at the time some pride.

[Maljinwo]

Still better than playing a Human, Small Human, REALLY Small Human, Purple Human or Werewolf Human though.

The Horde at least has variance in their races and a reason to give players who don't play Orcs or whatever the dominant race is at the time some pride.

Unless you are a goblin.
Or a Darkspear post-MoP

[Combatbutler]

Unless you are a goblin.
Or a Darkspear post-MoP

Darkspear actually had some spotlight with their shadowhunters in WoD, well goblins you have a point the horde cartel didn't get anything, but goblins in general did.

[Dartz1979]

People need to just leave my waifu alone... she's the best sexy lore character ever for horde.

[Magnagarde]

"The Horde's selfless leadership in the war against the Legion has left our ranks depleted. Our enemies slaver at the thought of stealing what is ours. We will not let them."

ok, she has either:
clearly lost it,
or
she has become a great propagandist.

i lean more towards the second.
since she even dared to shout "for the horde" at the trailer.
you're not fooling anyone dear. especially the horde.

Now we know where Sylvanas and most of the Horde was during Legion. In North Korea!




Except my tauren of course. He did all the saving and such.

[therealbowser]

she has become a great propagandist.

Nail has been hit on the head. Sylvanas is scrutinized as warchief, so in order to lead the Horde, she has to manipulate them. And that is something she has always been talented at.

If she became the next Garrosh, the entire Horde would rise up against her and destroy her in a moment's notice, her position is constantly being watched and Saurfang is ready to challenge her at any moment. If her response is to manipulate the Horde into seeing her views as justified, then... well, the writing is getting a lot better for this game. I'm impressed.

On the other hand, if Blizzard is writing this out in such a way that it actually happened and is justified, then that's bad writing to a new extreme. It's fiction within fiction. I hope this is intentional propaganda. It seems the blood elves are talented at it, too, given what happens with the nightborne. That, too, is brilliant writing if it's the intent, but I digress.

[Flurryfang]

"The Horde's selfless leadership in the war against the Legion has left our ranks depleted. Our enemies slaver at the thought of stealing what is ours. We will not let them."

ok, she has either:
clearly lost it,
or
she has become a great propagandist.

i lean more towards the second.
since she even dared to shout "for the horde" at the trailer.
you're not fooling anyone dear. especially the horde.

So first of all, in the out-game story, the horde and alliance were actually the ones defending against the Legion and defeating them together with the Army of Light. There are no adventures in that story, only champions of the Horde or Alliance.

That makes it so, that both Sylvanas and Anduin can say, that they did all the fighting vs the Legion and antagonise the other faction, since they proberly feel like they did all the fighting.

So yeah, she can say it, mean it and actually have the people of Azeroth believe her, since according to them, it is all to some extent true.

This war against Sylvanas from some people is really odd and is beginning to be a bit old and meaningless, since it is grasping at straws.

[Arrashi]

On the other hand, if Blizzard is writing this out in such a way that it actually happened and is justified, then that's bad writing to a new extreme. It's fiction within fiction. I hope this is intentional propaganda. It seems the blood elves are talented at it, too, given what happens with the nightborne. That, too, is brilliant writing if it's the intent, but I digress.

And what exactly happens with nightborne ? Them realising that nelves are pieces of shit while belves actually cared to help them ?

[Maxilian]

Sylvanas playing lip service what a surprise ;P

I am more baffled Anduin says pretty much the same, despite neither main factions playing any really significant role during the xpac.

I think both say that because the Heroes of the Alliance and Horde did the job with the Legion (not only us the adventurer, but most of the followers, were aligned to certain faction per se)

[OIS]

Still better than playing a Human, Small Human, REALLY Small Human, Purple Human or Werewolf Human though.

The Horde at least has variance in their races and a reason to give players who don't play Orcs or whatever the dominant race is at the time some pride.

Was that deliberate?

[ello]

Holy shit, people are getting worked up over the dumbest things. Would you all be losing your minds if Saurfang said this? Or Anduin(because he effectively did)?

There are interviews out there that confirmed that the Horde/Alliance characters we didn't see on screen were still fighting the Legion the entire time.

This is also confirmed in the BTS prologue.

[Minikin]

And what exactly happens with nightborne ? Them realising that nelves are pieces of shit while belves actually cared to help them ?

dude, really? I know you like the horde and all, and its fine but really? You can more than clearly see Tyrande and more than a bunch of night elves there fighting in Suramar. Its not like shes not the night elf racial leader or anything since the start of the game.

It is perfectly fine to have faction loyalty but at least but some reality in the argument.

[Nefarious Tea]

"The Horde's selfless leadership in the war against the Legion has left our ranks depleted. Our enemies slaver at the thought of stealing what is ours. We will not let them."

ok, she has either:
clearly lost it,
or
she has become a great propagandist.

i lean more towards the second.
since she even dared to shout "for the horde" at the trailer.
you're not fooling anyone dear. especially the horde.

Are you forgetting the part where the Horde was the one who DIDN'T attack the other faction during the Legion campaign? Whatever self-interested thing Sylvanas was doing in Stormheim, she was doing it alone; Horde forces were otherwise there to secure the Aegis of Aggramar. It was the Alliance that selfishly put petty personal and political grudges above literally saving the world.

[Arrashi]

dude, really? I know you like the horde and all, and its fine but really? You can more than clearly see Tyrande and more than a bunch of night elves there fighting in Suramar. Its not like shes not the night elf racial leader or anything since the start of the game.

It is perfectly fine to have faction loyalty but at least but some reality in the argument.

I suggest reading some quotes from tyrande fighting for that suramar and comparing them to what liandrin has to say. Also, her personal remarks to thalyssra were enough to show which faction suits nightborne better.