"go play retail then" is getting old

[Blameshiftwarrior]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Dual spec would probably break the game... We're talking up to like 50g a respec and if u pay a one time thing you get it all the time whenever you want? Oh you don't need 10 healers for this boss lets have you go dps. Alot of those minor things could change the whole dynamic of vanilla tbh.

[anon5123]

You think something purely cosmetic breaks the game, however something that changes gameplay does not? Really?!

Just to be clear I want no changes, I just don't understand the justification for not thinking dual spec is a bigger problem than transmog.

How does switching specs change the gameplay?

You can already respec as many times as you want, it just costs 50g each time.

Oh you don't need 10 healers for this boss lets have you go dps.

But why is that a BAD thing? How does it "change the whole dynamic of vanilla" ?

Seriously, you people are just "REEE NOT VANILLA NOT VANILLA REEEEEEEE", pandering to emotions rather than facts or logic.

[unbound]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Ultimately, your approach ends up breaking apart. Why your ideas and not others? Who gets final word on what does or does not break the classic experience? How many QoL things are added before it really isn't classic anymore?

Your nuanced view may seem rather cut and dry to others opposed to it. Your QoL issue is what may truly bother people. Was it inconvenient to loot one at a time? Sure...so what?

Is it more convenient to pop a frozen burrito into the microwave? Absolutely. Does it matter that it doesn't taste as good as made from scratch? Maybe not to you, but it certainly matters to others.

[SirCowdog]

Simple fact is Vanilla players want VANILLA. no changes. We will continue saying "go play retail" as long as you guys say "add/change this".

You want us to stop saying it? Stop asking for changes. Simple as that.

I think it's not so much that people are asking for outright changes, but the simple inclusion of basica QoL improvements that would, and should, have been in vanilla to begin with. Set dual spec to just cost 50g from your character screen and you're good to go.

Things like Dual spec were created because it just replaced hearthing, going to the respec vendor, clicking all your talents, setting up your hotbars, getting your gear from the bank, then running back. All while 39 other people waiting for you. It's not that dual spec fundamentally changed what was going on once you got back to the raid; it simply cut out all the bullshit in-between.

Things like that Vanilla purists seem to think adds to the experience. Which I don't personally understand. And there are COUNTLESS examples of things like that in Vanilla that were only acceptable because we didn't know any better at the time. Now we do, and I don't see the harm in cutting out the garbage.

But I don't know....maybe you LIKE only being able to bring 1 warlock to the raid because the programming could only handle 8 debuffs at a time. /shrug An entire class is marginalized because shoddy programming that can only handle 8 buffs. Think about that for a second each time you say you don't want vanilla to change for "Classic".

- - - Updated - - -

"but they promised me!"

*no promise was ever made*

Sound logic.

That's absolutely not the point I was making. I'm literally cautioning against assuming that anything is a promise just because Blizzard uses terms interchangably. I'm making the point you seem to be missing because you're too focused on being a salty troll who wants to nitpick instead of actually understand what's being said.

God...why did they lift your ban, anyway? FFS.

[Schattenlied]

I'm ok with almost any changes that don't break the social aspect of the game. No LFD, no LFR, no nerfing of group content.

No crossrealm BGs either. While they were introduced in Vanilla, they made your enemies in BGs faceless entities, it used to be when I went into a BG I recognized 90% of the other players in the game, on both teams... I had seen them in many previous BGs, I leveled and did dungeons with some of them, got in scuffles out in the world with many on the opposing team. I knew how they played, whether they were good or bad or just ok, I could tell whether or not my allies could be counted on to play the objective, and whether or not my enemies would be coordinated, before the game even started, just by looking at names. I liked that.

Other changes I wouldn't be ok with is flying, and overhauls of classes or any changes to how gear works or gear stats... I'd be ok with some ability tuning, to do things like make Balance/Ret/Prot(pally)/Bear viable, but no changing abilities, no taking abilities away, no adding abilities, just adjust numbers.

I however realize that many asking for vanilla servers would not be ok with this, which is why I would prefer there be 2 types of servers... One that is pure vanilla, one with some minor alterations, like making the hybrids viable tanks and DPS, and adding summoning stones outside of instances.

[anon5123]

no but let me ask you this. whose little change gets to get added to the game
one guy wants aoe looting
another wants transmog.
another wants dual spec
another wants leveling revamped.
another wants guild banks

do you see the issue?

The issue is people like you with your idiotic slippery slope arguments.

"oh, one thing gets changed...THAT MEANS EVERYTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE AND CLASSIC IS GOING TO TURN INTO LEGION AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE CHANGED EVERYTHING LITERALLY EVERYTHING REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Like it's impossible to just change one thing, nope, if we make one QoL change, then the game HAS to turn into legion and there is no other option, none at all. Blizzard will add AoE loot one day, and then add LFR, instant 60 and heirlooms the next day, totally, definitely going to happen, amirite

There's a reason why purists are so hated, and this is why. They refuse to even consider any change, no matter how small, and continue to REEE that any change = "retail"

[Sanguinerd]

I agree, few QoL changes should be put in.

Doesn't really matter what Blizz do, there'll be moaning because peoples experience won't be the same as a decade+ ago.

SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Let them figure that undeniable fact out for themselves.

[NihilSustinet]

I'd be ok with opt-in updated models.

I'd be willing to consider aoe looting. not sure on that one yet

dual spec, transmog are deal breakers.

[Vocah]

Dual spec would probably break the game... We're talking up to like 50g a respec and if u pay a one time thing you get it all the time whenever you want? Oh you don't need 10 healers for this boss lets have you go dps. Alot of those minor things could change the whole dynamic of vanilla tbh.

Well, it should obviously not be usable everywhere. But having the option to buy it somewhat expensive (like 500+g) and be able to switch between the two speccs for free AT YOUR TRAINER seems reasonable enough to me for those that think they would get something out of it.

[SirCowdog]

I'm ok with any changes that don't break the social aspect of the game. No LFD, no LFR, no nerfing of group content.

No crossrealm BGs either. While they were introduced in Vanilla, they made your enemies in BGs faceless entities, it used to be when I went into a BG I recognized 90% of the other players in the game, on both teams... I had seen them in many previous BGs, I leveled and did dungeons with some of them, got in scuffles out in the world with many on the opposing team. I knew how they played, whether they were good or bad or just ok, I could tell whether or not my allies could be counted on to play the objective, and whether or not my enemies would be coordinated, before the game even started, just by looking at names. I liked that.

Hmm...that's an interesting point. How large will the classic servers actually be? You got to know people on the server because the servers couldn't handle the amount of players that would make it difficult to do so. I wonder if they'll limit population to simulate this?

[Jaylock]

I think it's not so much that people are asking for outright changes, but the simple inclusion of basica QoL improvements that would, and should, have been in vanilla to begin with. Set dual spec to just cost 50g from your character screen and you're good to go.

Things like Dual spec were created because it just replaced hearthing, going to the respec vendor, clicking all your talents, setting up your hotbars, getting your gear from the bank, then running back. All while 39 other people waiting for you. It's not that dual spec fundamentally changed what was going on once you got back to the raid; it simply cut out all the bullshit in-between.

Things like that Vanilla purists seem to think adds to the experience. Which I don't personally understand. And there are COUNTLESS examples of things like that in Vanilla that were only acceptable because we didn't know any better at the time. Now we do, and I don't see the harm in cutting out the garbage. But I don't know....maybe you LIKE only being able to bring 1 warlock to the raid because the programming could only handle 8 debuffs at a time. /shrug

- - - Updated - - -



That's absolutely not the point I was making. I'm literally cautioning against assuming that anything is a promise just because Blizzard uses terms interchangably. I'm making the point you seem to be missing because you're too focused on being a salty troll who wants to nitpick instead of actually understand what's being said.

God...why did they lift your ban, anyway? FFS.

Cowdog, all your posts, especially on the flying debate come down to a few things:

1) If someone disagrees with YOUR assessment of flying, either their argument is "invalid", "not well thought out", "fanboiing", or any other rebuttle I've seen you post.

or

2) The person arguing or giving their side of the debate are simply "trolls" in your book because they disagree with you (however vehemently they disagree).

You think that you have the end all be all argument and anything else is invalid. Thats fine that you think that way.. its delusional, but its fine that you think that way, but a little word of advice: don't dismiss people just because they don't believe or think the way that you do. You will go further in life if you try to be objective and not closed minded about things.

[Hitei]

I'd be ok with opt-in updated models.

I'd be willing to consider aoe looting. not sure on that one yet

dual spec, transmog are deal breakers.

I will never understand what people have against transmog when you can only transmog into gear you have earned and it means that you don't have everyone running around in the exact same set of items.

[DrStiglit]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

The people who want it have been asking for it for years. Now the people that kept telling those other people it would never happen are asking for all kinds of changes to classic. So try and look at it from the other perspective. People wanted classic and now that that it’s beckmjg an actual reality these people are seeing the people who didn’t want it trying to fuck it up

[rewhaha]

I will never understand what people have against transmog when you can only transmog into gear you have earned and it means that you don't have everyone running around in the exact same set of items.

transmog came waaay late in the game. there was something about being identified by looks that made the game more of an MMO. Honestly, transmog was a big factor that seemed to confirm the 1-player nature of the game. Maybe it's that I can't think of transmog in isolation to all the other changes that were concurrent, but transmog changed the game in a really profound way i think.

And for dual spec, you can say all this nonsense about how it ruins identity or blah blah, but the truth was that players were ALREADY being forced to respec on a regular basis, and it was a huge time waster. So nothing was lost from dual spec, other than a trip to the trainer (and gold saved)

and for aoe loot, yeah it was implemented late into the game, but it detracts nothing. Wouldn't even make that much of a difference unless you're farming. huge mob packs weren't that common

[Ealyssa]

dual spec doesn't. When it was released, it was welcomed by EVERYONE.

Not even close, no.

[anon5123]

I will never understand what people have against transmog when you can only transmog into gear you have earned and it means that you don't have everyone running around in the exact same set of items.

They don't want it because IT'S NOT VANILLA REEEEE REEEE NO QOL IMPROVEMENTS REEEEE VANILLA IS PERFECT REEEEE NO CHANGES REEEEEE

[Hitei]

transmog came waaay late in the game. there was something about being identified by looks that made the game more of an MMO. Honestly, transmog was a big factor that seemed to confirm the 1-player nature of the game. Maybe it's that I can't think of transmog in isolation to all the other changes that were concurrent, but transmog changed the game in a really profound way i think.

I know exactly when it was introduced into the game. Transmog didn't change the game very much at all, except that it introduced actual variety to it instead of people all wearing the same sets of pre-raid/raid gear. The problems that exist with transmog as observed right now are ones that would not exist if transmog were in classic, e.g. wearing raid sets that you got by soloing the raid two expansions later.

All it does is let people do things like avoid awful mismatched BiS gear that makes them look identical to everyone else.

[rewhaha]

I know exactly when it was introduced into the game. Transmog didn't change the game very much at all, except that it introduced actual variety to it instead of people all wearing the same sets of pre-raid/raid gear. The problems that exist with transmog as observed right now are ones that would not exist if transmog were in classic, e.g. wearing raid sets that you got by soloing the raid two expansions later.

All it does is let people do things like avoid awful mismatched BiS gear that makes them look identical to everyone else.

gear was a status symbol. By the point it was released there was already a huge problem of everyone wearing the same gear, and gear being widely available (with identical models). When gear was harder to obtain, it had a more of an effect. You didnt need a a gearscore addon/achievements to asses someone's progress, you could just see it.

A wrath baby wouldn't know is basically what i'm saying

[WurstKaeseSzenario]

They don't want it because IT'S NOT VANILLA REEEEE REEEE NO QOL IMPROVEMENTS REEEEE VANILLA IS PERFECT REEEEE NO CHANGES REEEEEE

The problem with QOL improvements is, that people will bitch and cry for more and more of them.

Hey we have ae looting, can we have dual spec? It doesn't change the game.
Hey we have dual spec, can we have quest helper on the map? It doesn't change the game.
Hey we have quest helper, can we get transmog? It doesn't affect gameplay.
... better spawn rates for rare materials
... updated quest flow, no no, not different quests, just more breadcrumbs
... not needing keys on alts
... minor balance changes
... heirlooms for the XP
... streamlined stats on gear, doesn't affect gameplay if it's the same amount of stats

And all of a sudden you have the same experience as with hitting the XP-stop button on 60 in the retail version.

[Kelimbror]

Well... people asking for Vanilla wow to not be Vanilla is also old. You will loot every single thing you kill because farming materials is one of the only ways to make gold in the original game. They are going to deliver a game that is bug free compared to vanilla, but all mechanics and features will be identical.