[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Deleted]

A lot of people just can't accept the fact that Rey is a nobody, and that's one of the things I liked the most about the movie, the fact the force is not exclusive to the Skywalker linage, anyone can be born with the light.

The problem is that if she is from nobady and was not trained in the force earlier, here force feats in TFA become even more over the top.

[Arrowstormen]

The problem is that if she is from nobady and was not trained in the force earlier, here force feats in TFA become even more over the top.

The "Rey is OP" take is the worst and I usually don't care to reply to it, but 1) Rey being unusually strong with the Force is part of her (and Ben's) "thing", and 2) she has had a much tougher upbringing that has made her far more experienced than say, Luke and Anakin before they started to train as Jedis.

[ryan11d7]

The problem is that if she is from nobady and was not trained in the force earlier, here force feats in TFA become even more over the top.

I think the only course of action they have now is that she was born of the force. I think if they make her from nobody parents that goes against pretty much what every other Star Wars movie has been about. Someone from random parents probably shouldn’t be so much stronger than one of the most powerful family lines. There has never been someone who was so strong without any training what so ever that we are aware of. The only other thing I could see is that Rey was at the academy and Kylo didn’t kill her but dropped her off on Jakku, she could be related to many people that way. Hell her name may not have been Rey. Maybe they thought she had died. We have seen Kylo can read minds and extract memories, maybe he could block them too who knows.

[ohiostate124]

The "Rey is OP" take is the worst and I usually don't care to reply to it, but 1) Rey being unusually strong with the Force is part of her (and Ben's) "thing", and 2) she has had a much tougher upbringing that has made her far more experienced than say, Luke and Anakin before they started to train as Jedis.

Again. It’s not about her being strong with the force. It’s about her being able to wield it just as good if not better than Kylo who has received years worth of training by Luke Skywalker and Snoke despite having no training of her own. Sorry but her tough upbringing doesn’t make up for that.

[ryan11d7]

The "Rey is OP" take is the worst and I usually don't care to reply to it, but 1) Rey being unusually strong with the Force is part of her (and Ben's) "thing", and 2) she has had a much tougher upbringing that has made her far more experienced than say, Luke and Anakin before they started to train as Jedis.

Yes she is more experienced, in physical combat, that doesn’t explain the ability to resist/read minds/move hundreds of large rocks like paper.

[Deleted]

Saw it a few days ago.

Third best Star Wars movie, right after TESB and ANH. First act drags a bit (casino planet), sometimes the humour is a little bit too much, but the subversion of expectations and the amazing visuals are great. And there are way fewer plotholes than people make it out to be if you just pay attention. :P

Solid 8/10.

[ryan11d7]

Saw it a few days ago.

Third best Star Wars movie, right after TESB and ANH. First act drags a bit (casino planet), sometimes the humour is a little bit too much, but the subversion of expectations and the amazing visuals are great. And there are way fewer plotholes than people make it out to be if you just pay attention. :P

Solid 8/10.

There are a ton of plot holes even for people paying attention. Maybe we just use logic more?

[Arrowstormen]

Saw it a few days ago.

Third best Star Wars movie, right after TESB and ANH. First act drags a bit (casino planet), sometimes the humour is a little bit too much, but the subversion of expectations and the amazing visuals are great. And there are way fewer plotholes than people make it out to be if you just pay attention. :P

Solid 8/10.

Is the casino bit really the first act? I think it's pretty squarely in the second act, and then I'd argue the movie actually has four acts.

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There are a ton of plot holes even for people paying attention. Maybe we just use logic more?

Movie plot holes do exist, even if you can usually explain them away to some degree. However, people's ability to "find" plot holes grows enormously when they don't like a movie, interestingly enough.

[ryan11d7]

Is the casino bit really the first act? I think it's pretty squarely in the second act, and then I'd argue the movie actually has four acts.

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Movie plot holes do exist, even if you can usually explain them away to some degree. However, people's ability to "find" plot holes grows enormously when they don't like a movie, interestingly enough.

I would agree to that statement. I would give the movie a 6 but I think there are some plot holes. There are a few things that stop me from giving it a higher grade.

[ringpriest]

People keep saying this but that’s not the point. The force was never exclusive to the Skywalker bloodline. Everyone knows this. The issue with Rey being no one is that to a lot of people, there were very blatant teases that she was related to someone. Not to mention her ridiculously strong raw power.

Everyone seems to be accepting that Kylo Ren told Rey the truth - that is to say, they're ignoring the possibility that the man who killed his own father, who spent years on a quest to murder his uncle, who just murdered his own master due to his ability to deceive someone who could literally read his mind and who desperately wants her to join him, just possibly might not be a completely reliable source of information.

[Arrowstormen]

Everyone seems to be accepting that Kylo Ren told Rey the truth - that is to say, they're ignoring the possibility that the man who killed his own father, who spent years on a quest to murder his uncle, who just murdered his own master due to his ability to deceive someone who could literally read his mind and who desperately wants her to join him, just possibly might not be a completely reliable source of information.

Fun history fact: after Empire Strikes Back, people argued back and forth in heated debate about whether or not Darth Vader was telling the truth to Luke.

[ohiostate124]

Everyone seems to be accepting that Kylo Ren told Rey the truth - that is to say, they're ignoring the possibility that the man who killed his own father, who spent years on a quest to murder his uncle, who just murdered his own master due to his ability to deceive someone who could literally read his mind and who desperately wants her to join him, just possibly might not be a completely reliable source of information.

With JJ taking over the reins again with episode 9, I expect him to course correct big time.

[Arrowstormen]

With JJ taking over the reins again with episode 9, I expect him to course correct big time.

Hopefully he does something unique and interesting with the freedom the ending leaves him with, and sets up an interesting future for the movies to come.

[Deleted]

Is the casino bit really the first act? I think it's pretty squarely in the second act, and then I'd argue the movie actually has four acts.

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Movie plot holes do exist, even if you can usually explain them away to some degree. However, people's ability to "find" plot holes grows enormously when they don't like a movie, interestingly enough.

More than fair, should have said first half of the film. Regarding plot holes: With the exception of why one of the star destroyers didn't lightspeed around and go at the fleeing ships from another angle, I think everything was explained. Which bits are you missing out on? Maybe I have answers, maybe you can show me where I'm wrong.

[MatadorMedia]

Seemed pretty obvious that Luke was a hologram or force ghost or otherwise not really there during his fight with Kylo/Ben. They used his younger brown-bearded appearance in these scenes. Not to mention he was holding Anakin's lightsaber [which Kylo literally just destroyed minutes earlier], and Luke actually uses a green lightsaber.. I just wanted to pop in and be a smark about it.

[Florena]

I think you miss the point. If WoW was sold to EA by Blizzard, it would no longer be a Warcraft game. It would be a EA game with the Warcraft title. The title is a shallow husk of the content inside. It absolutely does matter if it fits his vision. If it's not a George Lucas film, it's not Star Wars. Full. Stop. Star Wars will always be his whether you like that or not.

You can arbitrarily decide what things with the star wars name on it do or don't count to you all you want, won't change the reality of things.

[ohiostate124]

So after Rey and Kylo split the lightsaber in half, how did she escape and get back on the Millennium Falcon? She literally just shows up at Krait to save the day. How did they skip that?

[Leih]

Regarding Snoke and his death... I thought it was a very brave move to kill him off, and in retrospect I think it was a really clever move and the whole scene was a brilliant subversion of the RotJ throne room scene. Although even when watching it, I knew it was going to piss a lot of people off at the same time.

Snoke not seeing that Kylo was going to kill him makes perfect sense to me, in spite of his immense power. Firstly, his own arrogance trips him up - and that's par for the course with Dark Side Masters. But more so, it showed Kylo's cunning in manipulating his Master so he could get the kill (backstabbing your Master is also rather standard for a Sith pair!). It's not that Snoke failed to detect Kylo's conflict or turning to the Light Side - there was no conflict. Snoke was right, he was reading Kylo spot on! Kylo had fully embraced the dark side. His conflict with the Light Side was completely gone. By this point, he'd fully embraced the Dark Side. Snoke's mistake was being too arrogant to realise that the thing standing in Kylo's way in his ascension was Snoke himself, not Rey.

In terms of the greater story, of course a lot of people were going to be annoyed by the bamboozle. One of the most common complaints is why did they bother introducing this powerful, mysterious character only to give him such a sudden and unceremonious death?

Well, Snoke's entire purpose in these films was to sell the possibility of Kylo turning to the Light Side. Picture a movie without Snoke, where Kylo and Hux were leaders of the First Order from the beginning. There would be absolutely zero chance that anyone in the audience could seriously think Kylo might swing to the Light - either in TFA (on the bridge with Han) or in TLJ (thanks to Rey's influence). Without Snoke - without the evil overlord ruling the First Order above him - it would have been obvious Kylo was going to be the villain from the start. Snoke was necessary because it tricked the audience into believing that Kylo might actually turn good, because it tricked you into thinking that Snoke would be the remaining big bad after Kylo defects.

No backstory and detailed information about who he was was given in this film because it wasn't needed for him to do his job. If anything, the mystery surrounding him sold his role in the story even more, because people wouldn't guess he'd be killed off so early without anything revealed about him. Perhaps the only flaw in this plan was they made him TOO intriguing. I feel like far too many fans got really really deep into their speculation and fan-theories and head-canon to the point that realising none of that shit was remotely relevant - and that Snoke was nothing but a giant red herring - left them so disappointed they couldn't appreciate the boldness of the storytelling.

If you're upset about the lack of info, don't worry, 100% guaranteed more info will be fleshed out about him in novels, wiki articles, comics and future films. It's just not important at this point in the story. Please remember this is the middle chapter, and just because he's dead doesn't mean more information won't be forthcoming in the universe as a whole.

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So after Rey and Kylo split the lightsaber in half, how did she escape and get back on the Millennium Falcon? She literally just shows up at Krait to save the day. How did they skip that?

There was a brief line about her stealing a transport in the confusion (where she would have summoned Chewie to pick her up, as that was the original plan to begin with)

[ringpriest]

I think you miss the point. If WoW was sold to EA by Blizzard, it would no longer be a Warcraft game. It would be a EA game with the Warcraft title. The title is a shallow husk of the content inside. It absolutely does matter if it fits his vision. If it's not a George Lucas film, it's not Star Wars. Full. Stop. Star Wars will always be his whether you like that or not.

A world where the prequels are the only Star Wars films is a very sad one.

[Deleted]

I think Joe makes alot of good points about Last Jedi in this video.