I'm sure we could think up a bullshit reason for that, you could have Luke lift the X-Wing out of the water and that would also be a great dramatic moment/callback.
The movie already plays fast and loose with timelines and travel times. Rey's story picks up right after TFA and seems to take place over the course of a few days, while Poe says Finn "must have a thousand questions" when he comes out of the Bacta suit like he's been out a long time (and somehow the Resistance has been reduced to 400 people and a few ships in this time). Also the cruiser only has a few hours of fuel but somehow Finn and Rose have time to take a ship (or is it an escape pod? Jesus) halfway across the galaxy and have a whole side quest with a reasonable expectation of getting back on time. So I think we could excuse Luke arriving on not-Hoth in a reasonable timeframe (Rey also travels from the island to Kylo Ren's ship within the same timeframe).
I still think him doing SOMETHING (doesn't have to be my suggestion, but something more satisfying) would fit in just fine with his plot arc. He's already decided to put his hermitage behind him and take a hand in events, and that "we are what they grow beyond", so maybe it's time to go out in a blaze of glory.
Adding Yoda definitely would've been better, at least to give the audience some kind of confidence this was happening for a reason.
Anakin also piloted an N-1 Starfighter for which he should have been to short. He build a Podracer from scratch at age 9, and a highly sophosticated protocol droid. I find that much less believable than an early 20es girl, who spent her life taking junk and ships apart, knowing a lot about the systems of a Starship that was considered junk when we got introduced to it in the first place. We also don't know if she had no experience, it is very well possible that she got to pilot the Falcon befor for that Junker she was working for. She seemed to at least be familiar with it. She knew that he installed a Fuel Pump, so it's reasonable to assume she had a certain level of access to the ship.
And using the Force doesn't necessarily take training. It has always been about surrendering control befor the prequels introduced the shitty idea of midichlorians and decades of tutoring to become a Jedi. She surrendered to the Force. For all we know she can be the chosen one from the Legend, and not Anakin. Or an Incarnation of the Force. Since when does the Force follow any rules? She was losing to Ren, until she surrendered control, just like Luke, who would have probably missed his one in a million shot if he hadn't 'let go'. That's what the Force was originally abaout, a huge part of what made it wonderous and mythical. You have to believe in it, accept it. Not train for 50 years in a temple. Luke had barely any training. 3 hours with Obi Wan and a week with Yoda in a Swamp, doing jumping-jacks and lifting rocks, and he defended himself against Darth Vader, a fully fledged Sith and alleged chosen one.
And as to language, since when did that follow any rules, either? How do people determine what droids say when they speak binary, especially when all of them sound differently? How do humans interpret the growling of wookies? It's never been explained, and it didn't need explaining. For all you know, a Wookie mercenary lived on Jakku. Use your imagination.
She spent her youth riding a bike around, salvadging valuables, and getting into scruffs with her big stick. If she fought Kylo Ren with her big stick it might make more sense her being proficient with it, she didn't though, she fought him with a lightsaber.
If you spend your whole life defending yourself with a staff and then suddenly pick up a sword, you are not going to be able to take that sword and defeat what is essentially a swordmaster with it.
I do get what you're saying here, but Flash Gordon serials weren't really children's films. I think that like Star Wars, they were aimed at a general audience, though they were probably embraced by young viewers especially.
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It was a joke.
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We all AGREED never to speak of those things again.
How do you think she got to adulthood? She worked for Plutt all those years, until she refused to give him some parts that he wanted.
She spent years studying schematics, data-tapes and memory cores she could find from the ships. And she flew countless types of spacecrafts on simulators.
Last edited by mmoc516e31a976; 2017-12-18 at 12:47 AM.
They absolutely were. Their origins were comics, even, before comics were cannibalized to be only catered to manchildren who refused to grow the fuck up. Buck Rogers, too.
When I say a "children's" film, I don't mean 6 year olds. I guess you could put them as a "family picture." But largely, young audiences were a core target and have been since the beginning. A bombardment of toys were a thing even prior to the Ewoks - they only expanded as far as they did because of how studios make films more toyetic now, not because Star Wars in any way changed how it targeted focus groups.
Again, Lucas and Hamill will both tell you that they're for kids.
And I don't know why that's so fucking dirty to people...?
Why doesn't he Force pull their weapons out of their hands?
Or maybe just use a mind trick and make them fight each other. Although presumably they aren't "weak-minded" enough for that.
He could also Force-push them out of the room.
But you know, we needed a fight scene, so...
Since when is Poe arrogant? And his actions aren't reckless, under the circumstances they make perfect sense. Even in the previous scene, his attack on the dreadnought is ultimately successful. Leia chides him for disobeying orders because it cost them their bombers and those pilots' lives - but shortly after that the First Order destroys the cruiser's hangar bay with a fighter attack and their starfighters are all destroyed, along with apparently most of the pilots. So had he obeyed orders they would've lost them all anyway, and the First Order would have the Dreadnought available to them not only in the battle at the start but even potentially in the final battle on salty not-Hoth. He made the right call.
If the movie wants to set up that he's reckless and arrogant and his actions make the situation worse, well yes I think that's a shitty direction to take his character but more importantly it's not demonstrated in the film.
Well, unless you can remove many years worth of water damage from it, I don't think that plan would fly. But yeah, I don't think it would've fared much better unless they had done the entire Luke arc a bit differently.
For me though, as I mentioned, the biggest issue was that his death came so soon after a really awesome scene. A deep low right after such a high is just emotional whiplash, and it's what soured it the most, from my point of view, hence the smoothing out with Yoda, example-wise, and then he fades. At least clueing the audience in before it happens. That could have redeemed the whole thing, if he had gotten out verbally, that he realized he failed, and almost failed to act at the last moment as well, but he did, and it gave his sister and the rebels the breathing room they needed to get out of dodge, but his failure cost him a higher price than if he hadn't helped at all.
With the attitude he had on the island, him flipping on a coin would also feel a bit off, because then it would've felt like his exile was just him being overly moody, not like he actually felt like he had disappointed so badly that some scrappy young upstart, with no real experience at being a hero like himself, could change it.
So...ugh. At this point, I'll accept the movie as it is tbh, and hope they release an extended cut and patch this scene up in particular. Most likely not...but yeh... It's one of the biggest issues with the movie after a closer inspection, but it won't make me change my rating of it, as what was good, was really solid.
He was already at the premiere and liked it. He already commented on the "deep canon" reference that would make die-hards "lose their shit" although I'm not really sure what that may've referred to other than Yoda.
But hey, I know what I'm going to hear from people - I guess he and Hamill are both Disney shills now that they aren't validating people's opinions that they wanted to hear. Hamill was uncertain and initially against Luke's character direction. Now he's praising Johnson on Twitter and seems to be energetically behind it, to the point where "I would want to be on Episode IX's catering just so I could hang out."
It couldn't possibly be that over time working on a project, someone came around to a certain role and position. It couldn't be that someone's protectiveness of their character can interfere with objectivity. Nope, they're SHILLS, dammit!
Only semi-related, but while Disney absolutely uses their massive influence to pay off CERTAIN reviewers, and certainly ones from companies they have partial ownership/influence with, the similar idea that they paid off 277 positive reviews, especially ones from people who disliked TFA or Rogue One, is fucking hysterical.
It's about someone's greater significance in an upcoming conflict. Sure, the hangar got attacked. But nobody could've made that prediction in the first place, and more importantly, the point is that "If I can't rely on this person to do as I ask of him, there is no guarantee that they can't also make the same decision when it WILL go wrong." It was a stupid, risky thing to do, many people died, and ultimately the only reason you're defending it is due to something that happened later which was pure happenstance and at the mercy of the narrative.Since when is Poe arrogant? And his actions aren't reckless, under the circumstances they make perfect sense. Even in the previous scene, his attack on the dreadnought is ultimately successful. Leia chides him for disobeying orders because it cost them their bombers and those pilots' lives - but shortly after that the First Order destroys the cruiser's hangar bay with a fighter attack and their starfighters are all destroyed, along with apparently most of the pilots. So had he obeyed orders they would've lost them all anyway, and the First Order would have the Dreadnought available to them not only in the battle at the start but even potentially in the final battle on salty not-Hoth. He made the right call.
If the movie wants to set up that he's reckless and arrogant and his actions make the situation worse, well yes I think that's a shitty direction to take his character but more importantly it's not demonstrated in the film.
If you think Poe's direction is bad...well, I'm not really sure what to say, other than I guess enjoy a character with no discernible traits beyond being a good pilot and being jovial with Finn and his droid? It's called an arc, people. Finn got one. Rey got one. Poe had nothing in TFA because he was originally meant to die. I liked him, but that kind of static nature can't sustain over a three-film story.
Last edited by Vakir; 2017-12-18 at 12:55 AM.
Yeah and I am not saying she should have used it, I am complaining about how she conjured skill with a lightsaber out of thin Mary Sue air and it being stupid.
I was merely pointing out that if she had used a staff, her weapon of choice, it would have actually made sense for her to be proficient with it.
Yeah and honestly that's the biggest problem, the movie makes some decisions so weird it is in great danger of losing the faith of the audience. Like, they might start to wonder if the writer has any idea what they're doing.
I want to hope that an extended cut will fix it, but I doubt it. I saw a clip with the director where he said that there was a three hour rough cut, but the theatrical version is the true cut of the film he's happy with. So I doubt it'd do much.
Poe is not Han Solo. If he was, you'd call him a cheap rip-off of Han Solo. You would never have been satisfied with anything other than your own headcanon. There was cheesy humor in the old SW movies. I wil at least give that the porgs were fucking awful, and BB8 is a bit too mired in just being comedy relief. The new movies ain't flawless, and nobody's saying that, at all. But they're not nearly as shit as jaded fossils make it out to be.
And prove that is what Hamill said. 'Cus I haven't heard it.
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She didn't. She used it as she felt instinctually, and logically as if it was a short stick. She has some basic combat skills, and they were just enough for the situation she was in. Kylo was not trying to kill her, he wanted to recruit her, and he was fairly solidly injured before the fight, and had to deal with Finn, who truly had no skills to fight him.