[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[PACOX]

Bane Created the Rule of Two to stop Sith infighting, but it was also explained that it was also because the Force being used without abandon by so many force users prevented it from being used at full power. Bane killed off the Sith to stop the infighting, but to also allow the force to be controlled by one wielder more efficiently.

The Rule of Two states that there can only be a master and apprentice because two apprentices could easily make a pact and kill the master, making the Sith weaker politically/millitarily. The other half explains that by only having one apprentice, the apprentice can only become master by killing his master after he has become stronger in the force than his predecessor.

That implies, albeit somewhat loosely, that the Rule of Two recognizes that too many users only dilutes the potential power of the wielder. The less someone knows about the force, the less they can control of it; leaving more of the Force to be utilized by someone who does know how to harness it.



Plagueis was alive up until Palpatine's coronation night as Supreme Chancellor of the senate(End of Episode I), he did not know about Maul IIRC. Palpatine did not know about Maul's death immediately because at the very same moment he had killed Plagueis moments before. In fact, he thought the dark feeling he felt was Plagueis' essence still haunting him because he was a fool to have killed his master before learning more of his secrets.

The Rule of Two being a thing to hoard the Force kind of breaks when think about how Sidious and Vader trained multiple people. Bane didnt think the Sith were spreading the Force thin, he believed jn consolidating the knowledge and ability of the Sith.

For instance, in high school you learned from several teachers because all of them were only proficent in one subject. But what if you had one teacher who was able to master all ths subjects and you only graduated if you knew everything that teacher knew. And sense that teacher no longer knows more than everyone else, youre now the teacher. So each new teacher knows more than the previous. With the Sith each one had to be stronger than the previous on or the order died.

Im not sure if Darth Plagueis being alive during TPM is canon anymore. I also think he knew Maul was alive but didnt care. By then Dooku was more useful and he knew about Anakin.

[Elim Garak]

Anakin as a kid fixed stuff, pod-raced and built si 3po.

Audience reaction: aw, high concentration of midichlorians, he's strong in the Force.

A 20 y/o something Rey fixes stuff, flies a ship and learns how to fight and use the Force.

Audience reaction: wtf? Who trained her? What is this nonsense?

[Halyon]

It is from a story telling perspective. You have Luke saying that the Jedi need to end, but is convinced by Yoda that he needs to teach the next generation(and doesn't(at least so far)), Luke then decides to burn the Jedi books(but Yoda has to do it for him), Luke tells Kylo there will be other Jedi(even though he believes he has burned away what was left of their legacy), and yet Rey has the books. Did Luke or Yoda know? Why did they or didn't they? Why go through the motions of burning the books if he was convinced the Jedi needed to continue? Why sacrifice yourself after realizing you need to train Rey? Haunt her I guess, but why would she care to listen to Luke going forward given how much of a dick he was to her the entire time she knew him?

Teaching the new ones doesn't necesserily mean teach them the same way as before, because that was what failed Luke and Ben.

[Shadowferal]

Anakin as a kid fixed stuff, pod-raced and built si 3po. Audience reaction: aw, high concentration of midichlorians, he's strong in the Force. A 20 y/o something Rey fixes stuff, flies a ship and learns how to fight and use the Force. Audience reaction: wtf? Who trained her? What is this nonsense?

I'm pretty sure if young Anakin fought and killed Darth Maul, the audience reaction would be similar.

And it should be.

[I Push Buttons]

-We're at a sort of reset for both sides at the end of the movie. First Order seems to be okay militarily but they lost Snoke, a bunch of flagships and leadership. They are left with Hux who is basically inept and Kylo who is universally loathed by the First Order rank and file. I'm not sure what the fallout will be there but I assume some infighting will give time for the resistance to get its shit together. The resistance itself is basically a handful of people at the moment who also have to start anew and rebuild themselves. I wonder when episode 9 will pick up from this because I think it just can't start with the resistance like it is now.

-Wtf Holdo, communicate the damn plan instead of being a cosmic space hoe

-Loony Yoda was great. Love the return to that. It's sad though since that is probably the last we'll see of Yoda. He doesn't have any connection to the remaining characters.

-Luke's arc seems to have the internet's panties in a bunch which I understand emotionally but I think it's fine the way he went out. We may or may not see him later as a force ghost but he did inspire a new hope into the resistance with his passing. He's essentially passing the torch to Rey.

-Leia. What to do with her idk.

Overall I thought the movie was enjoyable to watch it just all happened so quickly (while being super long) without time to breath. There were so many consecutive failures from both the first order and the resistance that it seemed almost like a comedy of errors.

Yeah, I thought everything was fucked in this.

My opinion of how the plot regarding their fleet should have gone:

- They get cornered and most of Poe's forces are killed defending the fleet as they make to escape. I thought the suicide run to kill the Dreadnought was just stupid and made no sense for his character... Yes he is a hotshot, but he was still an outstanding pilot and made sensible combat decisions/plans in the previous movie to preserve his forces... He, like everyone else in the fleet, would have been keenly aware of their shortage in manpower, it makes no sense for them to write his character throwing away lives like that.

- Yas Queen Purple Hair doesn't even exist, Ackbar and Leia never get sucked into space. They run into the same predicament, however, they are being tracked and can't jump away.

- Instead of coming up with the plan to disable the tracker, everyone knows about the stealth transports right from the start, but they need more of something to finish outfitting them.

- So Finn and token Asian can still go on their rich people are evil/animals are our friends adventure to get the needed parts.

- They get back just in the nick of time, the plan is working... But then one of the stealth transports malfunctions or something and the First Order sees it. They begin firing on the transports.

- Leia does the light speed kamikaze.

- Most of the transports make it to Crait and the final battle is more climactic. Most of them still die and the few that remain flee on the Falcon, but they died fighting instead of sitting on a transport and dying to garbage writing.

--------

I would have changed more about the entire plot of the movie, but the fleet arc was the most convoluted and retarded and seemingly would have been so easy to change. It baffles me why they went that direction.

[Halyon]

The Bloodline novel takes place 6 years before TFA, and Ben is still being trained by Luke at that point(It's not clear if Luke has even set up the temple yet either, he's characterized as traveling around the galaxy with Ben). It's shown so you can reasonably believe that Luke flew to Crait.

Uhm, no, because in TFA Kylo Ren has left Luke a long time since...

[PACOX]

Anakin as a kid fixed stuff, pod-raced and built si 3po.

Audience reaction: aw, high concentration of midichlorians, he's strong in the Force.

A 20 y/o something Rey fixes stuff, flies a ship and learns how to fight and use the Force.

Audience reaction: wtf? Who trained her? What is this nonsense?

Not only that, she survived on her own for 20 years. She clearly trains in hand-to-hand combat, she clearly has thousands of hours of flight simulator training. But her, she is just some girl who had absolutely no training.

[Altrec]

Yes, but before that almost every issue in the universe was the result of the Jedi. Luke names off a bunch of examples of it, up to and including the rise of Darth Vader and the ability of the Palpatine to take over the senate right under their noses.

The Jedi Order that allowed that all to happen is the Jedi Order that became corrupt, arrogant, and complicit. It's the same Jedi Order than Anakin turned against because of those reasons. The same Jedi Order that Ashoka left after it completely failed her. The same Jedi Order that created Count Dooku.

That's what Luke is talking about. That's what he's seeking to end. The question is whether or not his interpretation of the Jedi - as with Anakin's - is the correct one, though.

So fifty years of worth of screw ups negates the previous thousands of years of peace?

Because it was Luke's belief that the Jedi should end, not Rey's. She tried to convince him that he wasn't responsible for what happened to Ben or to his academy, and my take on it is that she thinks that the knowledge of the Jedi shouldn't be lost or wasted. Luke wanted to give up, but Rey didn't. Pretty sure she completely disagreed with his entire perspective.

That line of thinking just further shits on Luke's legacy.

[Krigaren]

Anakin as a kid fixed stuff, pod-raced and built si 3po.

Audience reaction: aw, high concentration of midichlorians, he's strong in the Force.

Imagine if Anakin was someone's character in a Star Wars tabletop game.

"My character's name is Anakin Skywalker. He doesn't know who his father is, because the Force got his mom pregnant so he can fulfill the prophecy to bring balance to the Force. He's also really good with machines and can build anything he wants. Oh, and he made C3-PO. Oh, and there's this thing called pod racing that no human has the reflexes or physical strength to do, but Anakin can. Oh, and he's stronger in the Force than even Yoda, cause remember the Force created him. Oh, and he's the best lightsaber fighter ever, and the best pilot ever, and he's smarter than Obi-Wan, and he'll be the hero of the Republic cause he's the best general they have. Oh, and he's like, best friends with the Emperor."

[Nefarious Tea]

I interpreted it that the whole movie takes place in under 24 hours. Rey's scenes have more day and night cycles because of a faster planetary rotation where they are. But they establish it's about 16 hours before the Resistance is out of fuel, so I consider that to be the time frame the events take place in.

We're seeing the past with Rey though. Her interactions with Luke start right where Ep. VII ends, but it's clearly absolute minimum months later for the Resistance/First Order side of things.

[PACOX]

I'm pretty sure if young Anakin fought and killed Darth Maul, the audience reaction would be similar.

And it should be.

When did Rey kill someone equivalent to Maul?

[Altrec]

Teaching the new ones doesn't necesserily mean teach them the same way as before, because that was what failed Luke and Ben.

And as I have been pointing out. Why then show her having the books? Teaching her in a different way is fine(not that he taught her anything), but that entire concept is negated by her having the books.

[Halyon]

That line of thinking just further shits on Luke's legacy.

No it doesn't. Super-dogmatic jedi and really cheesy/hammy uber-evil sith have been really annoying for years, when it's been shown that there are other approaches, hell Qui-gon was a grey jedi...we can have more of that.

It's fine that Luke doesn't find the dogma a good approach.

- - - Updated - - -

And as I have been pointing out. Why then show her having the books? Teaching her in a different way is fine(not that he taught her anything), but that entire concept is negated by her having the books.

She wants to learn. That's why.

[Shadowferal]

When did Rey kill someone equivalent to Maul?

She out-fought Kylo Ren, no? Someone that was far more familiar with the Force and dueling with it and a light-saber than she was ever.
Not very believable.

[Elim Garak]

I'm pretty sure if young Anakin fought and killed Darth Maul, the audience reaction would be similar.

And it should be.

Afair, It was Obi-wan who killed Darth Maul, not Rey. Anakin had single-handedly broken the blockade at Naboo by destroying the mothership. Rey? She didn't lose to Kylo Ren, who had multiple fencing-inhibiting wounds. So MUCH PAWOAR!

[I Push Buttons]

Anakin as a kid fixed stuff, pod-raced and built si 3po.

Audience reaction: aw, high concentration of midichlorians, he's strong in the Force.

You mean spent his entire life since he could walk as a slave working in Watto's shop taking apart and assembling things, including pod racers, and eventually used his force sensitivity to pilot pod racers for Watto?

- - - Updated - - -

Afair, It was Obi-wan who killed Darth Maul, not Rey. Anakin had single-handedly broken the blockade at Naboo by destroying the mothership. Rey? She didn't lose to Kylo Ren, who had multiple fencing-inhibiting wounds. So MUCH PAWOAR!

Indeed, he became an ace pilot out of thin air.

What, with all that auto pilot bringing him to the battle, crashing as soon as he gained control of the craft, and then accidentally firing some torpedoes.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Anakin as a kid fixed stuff, pod-raced and built si 3po.

Audience reaction: aw, high concentration of midichlorians, he's strong in the Force.

A 20 y/o something Rey fixes stuff, flies a ship and learns how to fight and use the Force.

Audience reaction: wtf? Who trained her? What is this nonsense?

I dont remember 8 year old Anakin going toe to toe with Maul. Could be wrong its been a while.

[PACOX]

So fifty years of worth of screw ups negates the previous thousands of years of peace?



That line of thinking just further shits on Luke's legacy.

Shits on Lukes legacy? She is Lukes legacy, the kids telling tje story about Luke are his legacy. The hope in the 20 or so survivors of the Resistance are Luke's legacy. Thats what the last 10-15 mins were about. What he finally realized. The audience is supposed to see him struggling with own hang ups about his own self worth after his confrontation with Kylo/Ben shuck him.

[Sorshen]

No it doesn't. Super-dogmatic jedi and really cheesy/hammy uber-evil sith have been really annoying for years, when it's been shown that there are other approaches, hell Qui-gon was a grey jedi...we can have more of that.

There's no such thing as a grey jedi. Stop it with this made up shit.

[Altrec]

That thousands of years of incompetence is the reason that The Empire was born.

The empire barely lasted 20 years before it was destroyed and the responsible parties all died. I'm still not seeing how that negates the previous thousands of years of peace. Thousands of years of peace isn't really classifiable as incompetence.