Blood elves, high elves and what could have been

[Obelisk Kai]

[citation needed]

Because clearly 'faction' is the only thing dictating anything in WoW.

But we get it. Anyone else asking for *your* toys offends you.

It's part of my faction. Has been for years. And given that Blizzard gave the Alliance a shoddy knock off 'toy', but not an exact copy, they evidently agree.

[Lumineus]

Faction identity is important, and High Elves on the Alliance is a blow to that. The factions should remain as unique as possible.

Is it? Because I think if it was, then they wouldn't have destroyed the Horde's in the name of population concerns. Instead, adding undead took the Horde's "faction identity" established in WC3 out behind the shed and shot it, and bringing in blood elves had... relations... with its corpse.

[Obelisk Kai]

Is it? Because I think if it was, then they wouldn't have destroyed the Horde's in the name of population concerns. Instead, adding undead took the Horde's "faction identity" established in WC3 out behind the shed and shot it, and bringing in blood elves had... relations... with its corpse.

As long as the factions are not identical to each other, they are free to evolve however the writers intend. Given that the Horde and Alliance conflict is core to the story, that difference is essential.

And the Horde of Warcraft 3 would have been an underplayed edgelord faction if maintained. Evolution is good. New and fresh options are good. The Horde is better today as a faction than it was then due to the diversity of distinct, UNIQUE options within it.

[Magnagarde]

Is it? Because I think if it was, then they wouldn't have destroyed the Horde's in the name of population concerns. Instead, adding undead took the Horde's "faction identity" established in WC3 out behind the shed and shot it, and bringing in blood elves had... relations... with its corpse.

Indeed. The most attrocious additions to the Horde are elves of whichever sort.

Would've made more sense to make the undead and blood elves a faction of their own as they share a similar fate at the hands of the Scourge.

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And the Horde of Warcraft 3 would have been an underplayed edgelord faction if maintained.

I can't stress just how untrue that is. How is Thrall edgier than Sylvanas? How is Rexxar edgier than Nathanos? How is Cairne edgier than Rommath? The Forsaken are the edgiest faction within the Horde by a long stretch.

All Warcraft 3 Horde-affiliated characters are down-to-earth characters which are more or less altruistic, honorable, strong and principled, that also had all the traits Orgrim's Horde had.

[Skeletov]

"MUH POPULATION BALANCE!"

Still waiting on an answer about why Void Elves wouldn't cause this same problem that doesn't boil down to "because nobody will want to play tham."

[Obelisk Kai]

I can't stress just how untrue that is. How is Thrall edgier than Sylvanas? How is Rexxar edgier than Nathanos? How is Cairne edgier than Rommath? The Forsaken are the edgiest faction within the Horde by a long stretch.

All Warcraft 3 Horde-affiliated characters are down-to-earth characters which are more or less altruistic, honorable, strong and principled, that also had all the traits Orgrim's Horde had.

Not in terms of the characters in the faction but in the people playing. When I say edgelord, I mean by those who would chose the Horde to play the 'cool' faction. An MMO with two or more factions must have a wide variety of races so that there is something for everyone.

The Blood Elves are the most attractive race in the game. They were always going to be heavily played. That was part of the reason they were added to the Horde, to correct a faction imbalance. The other part being their story had developed in such a way that they had nowhere else to go.

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"MUH POPULATION BALANCE!"

Still waiting on an answer about why Void Elves wouldn't cause this same problem that doesn't boil down to "because nobody will want to play tham."

If looks are really the deciding factor for what race you are going to play, I think those players will find Blood Elves more appealing.

Void Elves are cool in their own way, but I doubt they will cause a massive exodus from the Horde.

Come on, they look like zombies. And we already have a race of zombies on the Horde.

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I mean, is rather obvious that the people that care about high elves are mostly the people that overall are very into the lore of the warcraft universe, and many like me, that have liked them since War II, to us they are always going to be an iconic alliance race, and the fact that they keep popping on the world, even as "Vereesa and two dudes on a tent" show us they are still relevant to the universe.
.

Saying the High Elves are iconic Alliance race because of events in Warcraft 2 is akin to saying the Italians have always been an important ally of Britian and France because they fought on the same side during the First World War.

You sort of have to ignore everything that happened after to get away with making that claim now don't you?

[Skeletov]

If looks are really the deciding factor for what race you are going to play, I think those players will find Blood Elves more appealing.

Void Elves are cool in their own way, but I doubt they will cause a massive exodus from the Horde.

Come on, they look like zombies. And we already have a race of zombies on the Horde.

You said this was supposed to appeal to high elves fans yet you justify your population argument by saying this race will in no way be appealing to them?

[Lumineus]

Maybe if history had established Italy as a staunch ally of the Norman monarchs somehow dating back to before Egypt had pharaohs, e.g. six thousand years as established in the Stromgarde backstory, that might be an apt comparison.

And I think the word you're looking for is "hipster." Thrall's nuHorde would have been the Hipster Faction. They could have even brought in Night Elves and doubled down on it.

[Obelisk Kai]

You said this was supposed to appeal to high elves fans yet you justify your population argument by saying this race will in no way be appealing to them?

Why should I be excited about void elves again?

Because if you want to play a thalassian elf and stay on the Alliance they are the best you are going to get?

This is what High Elf fans have been asking for. Playable thalassian elves, made different from Blood Elves.

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Maybe if history had established Italy as a staunch ally of the Norman monarchs somehow dating back to before Egypt had pharaohs, e.g. six thousand years as established in the Stromgarde backstory, that might be an apt comparison.

And I think the word you're looking for is "hipster." Thrall's nuHorde would have been the Hipster Faction. They could have even brought in Night Elves and doubled down on it.

The High Elves were never staunch allies of Humanity. They buggered off back to Quel'thalas whenever they could and looked for the first excuse available to them to leave the Alliance of Lordaeron after the second war.

Oh but the Forsaken ARE the people of Lordaeron reanimated. So...I guess the 'ancient alliance' between them does endure after all.

Why does Humanity in the Alliance have a greater claim on the High Elves from Warcraft 2 when...and this is the kicker...most of the Human forces you played in Warcraft 2 are also now a part of the Horde?

[Garfurion]

If it makes you feel better I feel the exact same way regarding Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Forsaken and Goblins but I've not seen a thirteen year long whingefest trying to make them playable for the Alliance.

And I believe that the Alliance races belong on the Alliance.

Faction identity is important, and High Elves on the Alliance is a blow to that. The factions should remain as unique as possible.

Faction identity was compromised the moment the Blood Elves joined the Horde in TBC. Before TBC you had the essentially shamanistic Horde vs the Light-based Alliance. At least when Blood Elves were introduced they were fel-junkies who stole the light from a Naaru but the restoration of the Sunwell essentially took this unique Alliance defining property (including Paladins) and gave it to the Horde. The Alliance may have gotten access to shaman as a class but the Draenei are even more light-focused than any other Alliance race.

High Elves have been generally regarded by (Alliance) players as a non-playable Alliance race in WoW since Classic, in the form of the Highvale Elves in the Hinterlands. Similar to Wildhammer Dwarves and Reventusk Trolls. Blood Elves, as far as I remember, were neutral to both Horde and Alliance players before TBC. Now you can say there is a difference between playable and non-playable characters but for many players NPCs are part of a faction. Taunka and Hozen are seen as part of the Horde, Frostborn and Jin'yu as part of the Alliance.

I think very few Horde players would like it if Taunka suddenly became an Alliance playable race tomorrow but in way this is what happened when Blood Elves became playable as part of the Horde in TBC.

[Skeletov]

Because if you want to play a thalassian elf and stay on the Alliance they are the best you are going to get?

Never wanted elves to begin with.

You also didn't answer why this prevents population imbalance since in your mind "thats all they wanted".

This is what High Elf fans have been asking for. Playable thalassian elves, made different from Blood Elves.

If this were true then why are there multiple threads on different sites spanning hundreds of pages? Clearly it's a little bit more then "alliance side Blood Elves". If you still don't get that then your being dense.

[Obelisk Kai]

Faction identity was compromised the moment the Blood Elves joined the Horde in TBC. Before TBC you had the essentially shamanistic Horde vs the Light-based Alliance. At least when Blood Elves were introduced they were fel-junkies who stole the light from a Naaru but the restoration of the Sunwell essentially took this unique Alliance defining property (including Paladins) and gave it to the Horde. The Alliance may have gotten access to shaman as a class but the Draenei are even more light-focused than any other Alliance race.

High Elves have been generally regarded by (Alliance) players as a non-playable Alliance race in WoW since Classic, in the form of the Highvale Elves in the Hinterlands. Similar to Wildhammer Dwarves and Reventusk Trolls. Blood Elves, as far as I remember, were neutral to both Horde and Alliance players before TBC. Now you can say there is a difference between playable and non-playable characters but for many players NPCs are part of a faction. Taunka and Hozen are seen as part of the Horde, Frostborn and Jin'yu as part of the Alliance.

I think very few Horde players would like it if Taunka suddenly became an Alliance playable race tomorrow but in way this is what happened when Blood Elves became playable as part of the Horde in TBC.

Can we just bury this idea that certain races are out of bounds to either the Horde or Alliance because of outdated perceptions of what the Horde and Alliance are?

Do you want to know what defines the Alliance and the Horde? It isn't adherence to shamanism or devotion to the light.

It is history. It is politics. And they are defined, most of all, by each other.

Every race in the Alliance and Horde is defined by their opposition to the other faction, and brought together with their fellow members either by close bounds OR antipathy towards the enemy faction.

Even the Goblins have a long standing rivalry with the damn Gnomes.

We have followed this plotline for decades now. You may not like it but the story of the High Elves leaving the Alliance and joining the Horde was competently and believably told. They left the Alliance because they were abandoned and then betrayed. They joined the Horde because of their connection to the Forsaken, the reanimated population of Lordaeron led by their former Ranger General.

There are no laws forbidding either shamanism or light worship within the Alliance or Horde. There is no requirement that a race must be shamanistic or light worshipping to get into the Horde or Alliance respectively. One of these features maybe more predominant than the others in each faction, but they are not exclusionary.

And remember why they granted Paladins and Shaman to the other faction in the first place. Their faction unique status is classic was actively hurting the development of both of them as they each had to be developed with the other class in mind. It was correcting a mistake the game made in development.

It annoys you that the High Elves have left the Alliance. But they did. And they have now been a part of the Horde for far, far longer than they were a part of the Alliance.

[Lumineus]

Oh but the Forsaken ARE the people of Lordaeron reanimated. So...I guess the 'ancient alliance' between them does endure after all.

Except not, because the one continuing Thoradin's line would be Varian, as the ward of Anduin Lothar. Not some upstart banshee that usurped the Menethils' throne.

Why does Humanity in the Alliance have a greater claim on the High Elves from Warcraft 2 when...and this is the kicker...most of the Human forces you played in Warcraft 2 are also now a part of the Horde?

You mean the very same ones who were turned into zombies that ate their friends and relatives' brains in WC3? Bet that's awkward when they muster for battle...

[Obelisk Kai]

If this were true then why are there multiple threads on different sites spanning hundreds of pages? Clearly it's a little bit more then "alliance side Blood Elves". If you still don't get that then your being dense.

Oh I get it, trust me. When I say Alliance players got what they wanted, please remember I mean that literally. Just because you got what you wanted doesn't mean you like what you got.

I am well aware what these players wanted was a pale, beautiful, normal looking elf...a blue eyed blood elf basically. Sure, they would toss out nonsense ideas like a new model or a change in posture but that didn't fundamentally disguise their true goal. A Horde race on the Alliance side.

But Blizzard took them at their word and gave them Void Elves, the spin on the traditional High Elf they said they wanted. Albeit purple and with added tentacles.

Which means they finally have the model they've asked for for all these years.

But that if you want to play a traditional elf you still have to go Horde.

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Except not, because the one continuing Thoradin's line would be Varian, as the ward of Anduin Lothar. Not some upstart banshee that usurped the Menethils' throne.

That bloodline is extinct. They pointed out it was extinct. That oath no longer holds. Varian has no claim to it. Besides, the Forsaken ARE the people of Lordaeron. They ARE the same people who fought beside the Elves in the Second War. And now they still fight together as part of the Horde.

You mean the very same ones who were turned into zombies that ate their friends and relatives' brains in WC3? Bet that's awkward when they muster for battle...

If that was going to cause massive problems between them then the Blood Elves would never have joined the Horde to begin with. MAYBE the Blood Elves understand the difference between a Forsaken with an independent will and a mindless scourge monster?

[OIS]

Will blood elves be able to talk to void elves in the game?

[Lumineus]

If that was going to cause massive problems between them then the Blood Elves would never have joined the Horde to begin with. MAYBE the Blood Elves understand the difference between a Forsaken with an independent will and a mindless scourge monster?

Yet all of a sudden they can't tell the difference between Othmar Garithos and literally every other human.

[Aquamonkey]

Yet all of a sudden they can't tell the difference between Othmar Garithos and literally every other human.

Because it wasn't just Garithos. It was the Alliance. And it was the Alliance again who lied their way into Quel'Thalas and sabotaged the defenses.

[Lumineus]

And what's their excuse for staying with the Horde now that its leader is doing the exact same shit as the guy who decimated them and corrupted their magical meth fountain?

[Friendlyimmolation]

And what's their excuse for staying with the Horde now that its leader is doing the exact same shit as the guy who decimated them and corrupted their magical meth fountain?

Because she's not doing the same thing as Arthas?

[Kieldon]

Will blood elves be able to talk to void elves in the game?

Most probably not.