"go play retail then" is getting old

[Zandalarian Paladin]

You're asking for a retail feature, so of course, people will say "go play retail".

Everything you're asking is things that weren't there back in Vanilla. At the time it may have seemed like it was welcomed by everybody, but that's objectively not true. That's even truer considering that a lot of people realized dual-spec wasn't the answer well after it was implemented.

As for AoE looting, it's again something that has a direct impact on gameplay. Not to the same extent than, say, dual-spec, but it's still having a direct impact on the whole experience. It would marginally speed up the farming process, which is frankly not something we should aim to in a classic server.

[Deleted]

That's the point brother. those who regularly raided looked different, and you could tell. Calling yourself BiS when you are not is...

This excuse against Tmog is the worst...
Who give a shit except attention whores and ass lickers?
You know your power lvl, you know your guildmates and you know other guilds progression. In the wild, you got wrecked by someone in low lvl crafted outfit? Now you know.
If you care enough to spot BIS gloves in the crowd you are good to see if someone is hiding something under Tmog...

[rewhaha]

This excuse against Tmog is the worst...
Who give a shit except attention whores and ass lickers?
You know your power lvl, you know your guildmates and you know other guilds progression. In the wild, you got wrecked by someone in low lvl crafted outfit? Now you know.
If you care enough to spot BIS gloves in the crowd you are good to see if someone is hiding something under Tmog...

IDK... wanting your character to 'look good' seems more attention-whoreish to me. Rather than 'lets let appearance speak for itself' you're choosing 'i want to look good no matter what'. For a gear-centric game like wow, i think your preference is less than respectable

[Pickynerd]

it was already killed. anyone who raided when it was released understood that they would be expected to respec.

thing is, not that many people raided prior to release. The only people that would have objected to duel spec were those who had zero experience raiding.

Because the niche crowd were babies.

The tanks and healers would have a temper tantrums over any little thing, not wanting to raid right now, not getting a drop ect. A warrior, sure respec we'll pitch in respec and repairs, being down an dps wasn't too big of an issue, but healers on the other hand, they were just healers other than the rare mana battery that could switch.

I don't know who was repec'ing in your raid, you happen to have a lot of shadow priests, ret/prot pallys, boomy/feral druids, monkslol?

There was most definitely a niche in vanilla.

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And another lots of people hated it because it still wasn't enough. The day we had dual spec, they started asking for triple spec.... blizzard said "lol! No....". Blizzard can draw the line.
I dont know if it kills the niche, but it saved my raid team... now with 40man raids it wouldn't have been enough.

There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to switch spec's easily on your class, that was a mistake on Blizzards part from the beginning.

I have a shield, but I need 200g to use it properly? - Stupid.

[Deleted]

IDK... wanting your character to 'look good' seems more attention-whoreish to me. Rather than 'lets let appearance speak for itself' you're choosing 'i want to look good no matter what'. For a gear-centric game like wow, i think your preference is less than respectable

Not really to look good, just so we dont look all the same at high lvl, and don't look like a clown at low level. Like I said, in vanilla there is so little choice anyway, you'll spot who is hiding his stuff at first sight. IMO it gives more identity to your character than the spec you play.

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There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to switch spec's easily on your class, that was a mistake on Blizzards part from the beginning.

I have a shield, but I need 200g to use it properly? - Stupid.

I completely agree with this.

You play hybrid like shaman or warrior, you want 2 different pve spec and a pvp spec. Burning that much gold every time you want to play different part of the game is a game breaker. No point apart being a big pita

[Charge me Doctor]

my point is that you could tell if someone was raiding black temple/hyjal/sunwell or not jsut by looking at them. BiS crafted gear? that's not best in slot. there aren't tiers of BiS

most bis warlock gear was crafted gear tho. for some classes it was true up until sunwell

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That's the point brother. those who regularly raided looked different, and you could tell. Calling yourself BiS when you are not is...

they still do now tho

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IDK... wanting your character to 'look good' seems more attention-whoreish to me. Rather than 'lets let appearance speak for itself' you're choosing 'i want to look good no matter what'. For a gear-centric game like wow, i think your preference is less than respectable

There are players who don't want to look like a christmass tree in their gear, what's wrong with that?Taste is a subjective thing, some players like warlock tier 6 looks, some don't, so why do i have to bleed through my eyes every time i log into my character?

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I completely agree with this.

You play hybrid like shaman or warrior, you want 2 different pve spec and a pvp spec. Burning that much gold every time you want to play different part of the game is a game breaker. No point apart being a big pita

I have a friend who leveled 4 human paladins in vanilla for each spec he wanted. You can't imagine how happy he was in wotlk

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Im starting to get tired of the people who want classic sugar coated. Next thing you know people will discover how the honor grind was and they ll request a prestige system.

I often hear that stuff from PS players, acting all tough about how hard it is to get a grandmarshal weapon... and they don't even realize that before 1.11 or something it was even bigger grind. So hilarious

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AoE looting would make a huge difference as a main mechanic of mages back then was to go to heavy respawn areas and just aoe the shit out of the mobs. The only thing that delayed that process was the absence of AoE looting. Same for dungeons and everything else.

And that's not true. It was simply a niche. You couldn't reliably do that simply because... there were other players around, and it still was more efficient to take them one by one - both health and mana-vice.
Except pre-naxx event, when you had mobs densely packed all over the place

[Collegeguy]

Because the niche crowd were babies.

The tanks and healers would have a temper tantrums over any little thing, not wanting to raid right now, not getting a drop ect. A warrior, sure respec we'll pitch in respec and repairs, being down an dps wasn't too big of an issue, but healers on the other hand, they were just healers other than the rare mana battery that could switch.

I don't know who was repec'ing in your raid, you happen to have a lot of shadow priests, ret/prot pallys, boomy/feral druids, monkslol?

There was most definitely a niche in vanilla.

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There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to switch spec's easily on your class, that was a mistake on Blizzards part from the beginning.

I have a shield, but I need 200g to use it properly? - Stupid.

Connected flight paths was still classic wow after bliz had realized their mistake just as much a dual spec was still classic wow.

Anyone that thinks they won't connect the flight paths are kidding themselves.

They might come under the same conclusion just as much for dual spec and decide certain classes and parts of the game are broken without it.

[Wiedzemir]

They might come under the same conclusion just as much for dual spec and decide certain classes and parts of the game are broken without it.

Hybrid tax is a feature, not a bug.

[Collegeguy]

Hybrid tax is a feature, not a bug.

Ha, I remember that. Funny enough that kind of tax reference in a guild is a redistribution of time and gold away from non-hybrids to their hybrids. Also, their lack of hybrids in small, shitty guilds.

[Deleted]

Part of the "classic experience" was that everyone looked like clowns and was forced to chase tier gears in order not to look like clowns. This mechanic is important classic mechanic ...

Important classic mechanic... That's so ridiculous Im losing my words

Are you against a toggle for hiding shoulders and belts? Or you really want to see all of it, so you can do the math and know my exact power lvl or wathever the fuck you care about my toon...

[Kyanion]

Important classic mechanic... That's so ridiculous Im losing my words

Are you against a toggle for hiding shoulders and belts? Or you really want to see all of it, so you can do the math and know my exact power lvl or wathever the fuck you care about my toon...

I'm sure it boils down to 2 reasons why they are so against xmog. 1) So they can show off in SW/Org about how much raiding they do. 2) So they know who to attack on a PvP server so they don't get fucked up.

You'd think they'd stop to realize that not everyone players on a PvP server and that people (yes, even in Vanilla) don't give a flying fuck what someone is wearing and want to style their character how they wish.

[Wiedzemir]

It was a mistake, not a feature

It would be a mistake if every class could fill more than one role. When hybrid tax was removed, pure DPS classes were thrown into a massive disadvantage. It was sort of mitigated later by the fact that it's incredibly easy to level and gear a second character, unlike in vanilla.

[Deleted]

I'm sure it boils down to 2 reasons why they are so against xmog. 1) So they can show off in SW/Org about how much raiding they do. 2) So they know who to attack on a PvP server so they don't get fucked up.

You'd think they'd stop to realize that not everyone players on a PvP server and that people (yes, even in Vanilla) don't give a flying fuck what someone is wearing and want to style their character how they wish.

Yes, it will be glorious. Can't wait for not having trasnmog again.

The ultimate form of incentive

[Kyanion]

Yes, it will be glorious. Can't wait for not having trasnmog again.

The ultimate form of incentive

Yes, such an incentive that most people in Vanilla DID NOT RAID. Such incentive. Much WoW.

[evogsr]

Yes, such an incentive that most people in Vanilla DID NOT RAID. Such incentive. Much WoW.

If they aren't raiding, transmog seems pretty pointless, no?

Transmog discussion is completely circular and I've yet to see anyone raise a remotely intelligent rationale by why it should be included.

Stated earlier, transmog would certainly have a massive negative effect in the raiding environment by giving players an actual ingame justification for bidding/rolling on items that are not meant for their class. Putting their raid at a disadvantage because some scrub wants their character to look good in the low-res vanilla textured armor/weapons.

Go find another game to play skin collector in. Or at least come up with an argument something more than "gibs me dat".

[Deleted]

If they aren't raiding, transmog seems pretty pointless, no?

Transmog discussion is completely circular and I've yet to see anyone raise a remotely intelligent rationale by why it should be included.

Stated earlier, transmog would certainly have a massive negative effect in the raiding environment by giving players an actual ingame justification for bidding/rolling on items that are not meant for their class. Putting their raid at a disadvantage because some scrub wants their character to look good in the low-res vanilla textured armor/weapons.

Go find another game to play skin collector in. Or at least come up with an argument something more than "gibs me dat".

You ignore most of them if you have yet to see remotely intelligent rationale by why it should be included. Those who don't raid you say? Probably the biggest user base so they dont look like clowns.
About your raid situation, I think there is a Master loot option in vanilla. If the masterloot is not too dumb, he'll give item to a player in need. Talking about remotely intelligent rationale.....

transmog would "certainly" have "a massive negative effect" in absolutely nothing but purist nerves

[evogsr]

You ignore most of them if you have yet to see remotely intelligent rationale by why it should be included. Those who don't raid you say? Probably the biggest user base so they dont look like clowns.
About your raid situation, I think there is a Master loot option in vanilla. If the masterloot is not too dumb, he'll give item to a player in need. Talking about remotely intelligent rationale.....

"So they don't look like clowns". Thank you for making my point. This is the heaviest of any argument you or others keep suggesting and all it amounts to is "gibs me dat".

Almost every single guild used a structure like dkp to handle gear. If a raid leader puts restrictions on what people can spend their points on, there won't be a raid for very long. I don't expect you to get that though, since you've made your entitled position very clear for a very long time.

[Kyanion]

"So they don't look like clowns". Thank you for making my point. This is the heaviest of any argument you or others keep suggesting and all it amounts to is "gibs me dat".

Almost every single guild used a structure like dkp to handle gear. If a raid leader puts restrictions on what people can spend their points on, there won't be a raid for very long. I don't expect you to get that though, since you've made your entitled position very clear for a very long time.

It is kind of pointless to have a discussion when you're claim no one is providing a good enough reason to you and you come up with this 'gibs me dat' line. There are plenty of items in dungeons, out in the world, questing items, pvp items and maybe a player would like to have a character that looks decent and not someone wearing a mish mash of items that provide the best stats.

Also, considering that most people did not raid it really does not matter that much what systems some guilds used. And not 'almost every single guild' used dkp so stop making up shit to fit your narrative.

[Deleted]

Almost every single guild used a structure like dkp to handle gear. If a raid leader puts restrictions on what people can spend their points on, there won't be a raid for very long.

If you play with assholes who gives an item to another asshole using dkp for xmog when a guildmates need the item for the upgrade, I can't help your raid!! Damn you are playing with your grand kids or what?! Your rationale doesn't fly very high either let me tell you that!

[evogsr]

It is kind of pointless to have a discussion when you're claim no one is providing a good enough reason to you and you come up with this 'gibs me dat' line. There are plenty of items in dungeons, out in the world, questing items, pvp items and maybe a player would like to have a character that looks decent and not someone wearing a mish mash of items that provide the best stats.

Also, considering that most people did not raid it really does not matter that much what systems some guilds used. And not 'almost every single guild' used dkp so stop making up shit to fit your narrative.

The claim is accurate. No. One. Has. Raised. A. Good. Point. And the only point that continues to be raised is "Muh appearance."

Look, I get that you're short sighted enough to not understand how the implementation of such a system would have a noticeable effect in a game world that wasn't created for such a system at that time, but let's not split hairs here. Go down the list of vanilladb and take a gander at the lack of variety of models between green and blue gear based on armor type / weapon type. The depth of variety is abysmal. Stop making up shit to fit your narrative.

Exactly what system did most guilds use to distribute gear then among the raid, goy?