Russian officials bar opposition leader Alexei Navalny from running for president

[Shalcker]

I am curious what results? the average Russian is worse off than they were before,

Factually wrong. Russians actually got around Poland levels of wealth on average now; they were quite behind when Putin started.

there's huge wealth gap,

Which existed before; growing wealth gap is worldwide problem either way (outside of high-tax countries, and then even for some of those too).

high poverty rate,

Also wrong.

health care is terrible,

It's cheap though; and subsidised.

life expectancy is 70 far below most western countries,

It is still growing; eventually it will converge.

your GDP has gone down as well.

It went up this year and will probably go up next year too.

[Draco-Onis]

Factually wrong. Russians actually got around Poland levels of wealth on average now; they were quite behind when Putin started.

Poland is a fraction of the size of Russia, their life expectancy is 8 years higher than yours.

Which existed before; growing wealth gap is worldwide problem either way (outside of high-tax countries, and then even for some of those too).

true but yours is especially worse due to rampant corruption.

Also wrong.
It's cheap though; and subsidised.
It is still growing; eventually it will converge.

If I am wrong why is your life expectancy so awful and Russian hospitals often have nightmare stories?. It is reported that most of the population avoids hospitals because they are so expensive. Your median income is also far below most European countries and about half of Poland.

It went up this year and will probably go up next year too.

You are near financial crisis level.

[Shalcker]

Poland is a fraction of the size of Russia, their life expectancy is 8 years higher than yours.

Exactly because of size it is harder; there are plenty of remote regions. We'll get there.

true but yours is especially worse due to rampant corruption.

Pretty average corruption, in fact (again, about Poland level). For "rampant" check Ukraine.

If I am wrong why is your life expectancy so awful and Russian hospitals often have nightmare stories?.

If you look for "nightmare stories" you can find "nightmare stories" in any country.

It is reported that most of the population avoids hospitals because they are so expensive.

Not unless you are going into private ones; public ones are free (as long as they got space for you).

Most of private medicine is relatively accessible either way if you don't want to wait for public queues (in case of complex operations).

Your median income is also far below most European countries and about half of Poland.

Not if you adjust by purchasing parity.

You are near financial crisis level.

We're actually out of crisis at this moment. Our inflation is at record low 3% mark.

[rda]

I don't understand why western media is pushing for Navalny. He's a fucking nazi. All he does is talk and steal, ...

He is not "a fucking nazi" (this demands an elaborate explanation, but long and short of it is that he is for things like control over immigration, and that cannot even begin to approach being called "a nazi"). He does way more than talk (he and his team uncovered tons upon tons of cases of corruption, they filed tons of lawsuits for that, etc). He didn't steal anything (there were several cases fabricated by the government, they are hilariously fake and all you have to do to see that is to read them and that's why they keep getting laughed out of all courtrooms that aren't in Russia).

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I mean, does he have the means or the authority to have people murdered? Russia certainly needs an opposition to Putin's ludicrous regime, but Navalny is not it.

How do you know? Where does this come from? Why are you saying that?

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Well what Binki was saying is that he doesn't get why the media in the West like a neo-nazi. Just because he opposes Putin does not mean he is not a neo-nazi, the enemy of my enemy may still be my enemy after all. And since when is Russia a democracy anyway?

I get why you said what you said above now. Navalny is not a neo-nazi. Stop this nonsense. You have been misinformed. You know how the media always have to present two sides to everything? Meaning, if you talk about something bad, try to find a little good for contrast and color, and vice versa? Well, this "nazi" thing was chosen by the media as the "bad" side of Navalny. If you read what it boils down to (example: there is a big problem with immigration in that several regions have tons of Asian immigrants and a lot of them - most? - are illegal, all Navalny says is that this nonsense has to stop and immigration should be ruled by law, the citizens should know who enters and why and how many and should be able to say no and maybe give preferences based on education / etc), it is very tame.

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I am curious what results? the average Russian is worse off than they were before, there's huge wealth gap, high poverty rate, health care is terrible, life expectancy is 70 far below most western countries, your GDP has gone down as well.

It depends on what time you measure to. If you measure from now to, say, 2005, then perhaps the Russians are better off now. If you measure from 2013 or 2014, then they are worse off.

(Yes, I completely agree that it has been a disaster.)

[Elim Garak]

He openly works for our Western frienemies. Openly. Just look how western media treats him. Imagine seeing the same in Russian media about one of YOUR candidates. Oh wait... you don't need to.

[rda]

He openly works for our Western frienemies. Openly. Just look how western media treats him. Imagine seeing the same in Russian media about one of YOUR candidates. Oh wait... you don't need to.

How does he openly work for your Western whoever? What do you mean by this specifically?

[downnola]

He openly works for our Western frienemies. Openly. Just look how western media treats him. Imagine seeing the same in Russian media about one of YOUR candidates. Oh wait... you don't need to.

You don't seriously expect the western media to keep quiet about Russian elections after 2016 do you? LOL.

[Elim Garak]

How does he openly work for your Western whoever? What do you mean by this specifically?

He's a foreign agent. That's what I meant by it.

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You don't seriously expect the western media to keep quiet about Russian elections after 2016 do you? LOL.

What do you mean AFTER 2016? They weren't quite BEFORE.

[Mormolyce]

This is my surprised face.

This once again shows Putin's integrity. Since his re-election is as certain as Sauli Niinistö's anyway, he would personally benefit the most if Navalny was allowed to participate: this way, there would be no buts and ifs from the opposition, and the western media could not fabricate stories about evil Putin undermining democracy (well, I take that back.. the western media is capable of anything regardless). However, Putin puts the law above his personal interests, and doesn't try to interfere in the Navalny case.

This... this post is intentionally ironic? ...Right?

...Right???

It's very democratic to not allow convicted criminals to run.

I can never tell when you're joking, but if anyone needed an illustration of why it's a conflict of interest for a government to be able to prevent someone for running for office because of a crime when they are also in charge of prosecuting crimes...

...well this whole topic is one.

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Clearly you prefer virtue signalling.

Whereas you're more into vice signalling.

It's okay, we all know you're just doing your job.

[rda]

He's a foreign agent. That's what I meant by it.

This didn't add any specificity, only grotesque pretense at something big and terrible.

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This once again shows Putin's integrity. Since his re-election is as certain as Sauli Niinistö's anyway, he would personally benefit the most if Navalny was allowed to participate: this way, there would be no buts and ifs from the opposition, and the western media could not fabricate stories about evil Putin undermining democracy (well, I take that back.. the western media is capable of anything regardless). However, Putin puts the law above his personal interests, and doesn't try to interfere in the Navalny case.

Yeah, this is patent comedy.

Putin tries as hard as he can not to let Navalny compete without outright killing him (although if push comes to shove, he might end up doing the latter) precisely because all that wide support for Putin with the figures of 86% and whatnot is hugely fake (does he have even 30%? hard to tell) and consists of wild exaggerations from the pollsters and people being polled by the official pollsters holding back their real opinions.

[Keeponrage]

No idea why he gets darling'd in the press.

West supports Nazis and other extremists abroad so they can stir shit up when time is right.

[Elim Garak]

This didn't add any specificity, only grotesque pretense at something big and terrible.

That was way more specific than this:

because all that wide support for Putin with the figures of 86% and whatnot is hugely fake (does he have even 30%? hard to tell) and consists of wild exaggerations from the pollsters and people being polled by the official pollsters holding back their real opinions.

Come on man you have no fucking right to demand specificity from me after this.

[Machismo]

He openly works for our Western frienemies. Openly. Just look how western media treats him. Imagine seeing the same in Russian media about one of YOUR candidates. Oh wait... you don't need to.

And yet, your leader murders and imprisons political opposition. I'm sure glad I don't support a murderous dictator, how about you?

[Shalcker]

And yet, your leader murders and imprisons political opposition. I'm sure glad I don't support a murderous dictator, how about you?

By your definition of "political opposition" that you use for Russia you could call Assange, Snowden and Manning "political opposition" too.

[Draco-Onis]

Exactly because of size it is harder; there are plenty of remote regions. We'll get there.

Pretty average corruption, in fact (again, about Poland level). For "rampant" check Ukraine.

If you look for "nightmare stories" you can find "nightmare stories" in any country.

Not unless you are going into private ones; public ones are free (as long as they got space for you).

Most of private medicine is relatively accessible either way if you don't want to wait for public queues (in case of complex operations).

Not if you adjust by purchasing parity.

We're actually out of crisis at this moment. Our inflation is at record low 3% mark.

To sum it up, do you think Putin has done his best to improve the life of the average Russian? are you very satisfied with his leadership? because in terms of corruption Russia ranks pretty bad, healthcare, income pretty much every metric considering how great the Russian people are and the sheer size of your country and natural resources.

[Machismo]

By your definition of "political opposition" that you use for Russia you could call Assange, Snowden and Manning "political opposition" too.

It's not my definition. How much oppression and murder are you willing to tolerate from your leadership?

[Shalcker]

To sum it up, do you think Putin has done his best to improve the life of the average Russian?

About 80% of what i would expect from "ideal" leader. Okay job given overall limitations of chosen free market system.

are you very satisfied with his leadership?

He isn't perfect; i could use replacement, but currently i would rank most "contenders" in 30-50% range of "ideal candidate".

because in terms of corruption Russia ranks pretty bad, healthcare, income pretty much every metric considering how great the Russian people are and the sheer size of your country and natural resources.

Income improved, corruption situation improved significantly, life expectancy improved, healthcare is in process of reform after which it is likely to improve too (within new limitations).

Sure, i would love someone to do better; i see noone who would show actual path toward "doing better". Plenty of those who can do worse.

[Felya]

@Shalcker I love the dichotomy of this thread and the one where you posted US investigation was Putin’s opposition’s obstacle. I think there might be something else...

[Shalcker]

It's not my definition. How much oppression and murder are you willing to tolerate from your leadership?

I see nothing inherently wrong with oppression for destructive elements of society (outside of problems arising from who gets to decide).

I don't see any murder situations that could be confidently pinned on "Putin's regime" specifically; plenty of those situations arise from his weakness rather then his strength. I guess i can justify Litvinenko (being limited to fights between secret services); i don't think anything else was specifically done to his benefit and/or with his support.

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@Shalcker I love the dichotomy of this thread and the one where you posted US investigation was Putin’s opposition’s obstacle. I think there might be something else...

You should be more clear; i don't see where any "US investigations" were obstacle to Putin... obstacle to what exactly? :/

[Machismo]

I see nothing inherently wrong with oppression for destructive elements of society (outside of problems arising from who gets to decide).

I don't see any murder situations that could be confidently pinned on "Putin's regime" specifically; plenty of those situations arise from his weakness rather then his strength. I guess i can justify Litvinenko (being limited to fights between secret services); i don't think anything else was specifically done to his benefit and/or with his support.

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You should be more clear; i don't see where any "US investigations" were obstacle to Putin... obstacle to what exactly? :/

You said you are willing to support murder and oppression, now we just have to figure out how much you are willing to tolerate. Only you can say exactly where you draw the line.