Future Allied Races

[lordsesho]

See, you lose all credibility when you say things like "Blizzard is lazy" and "tends not to give the player base what they want." First of all, there's quite a bit of agreement that Blizzard is one of the best game companies out there... If not THE best. Second, don't ever say they're lazy. They work extremely hard to put out quality games, and they take longer than most because they won't release anything before they feel it's ready. They never rush things, despite what MMO-C forum posters say. Lastly, they've produced the best and most successful mmorpg ever, revolutionizing the genre and multiplying the playerbase many fold. The game is more popular a decade later than the previous most popular one was at its height. So don't give me any of your bullshit just because you want to whine about a little slight you felt.

i wish i could upvote this

[Steampunkette]

It's arguable, @Ogren, but the game and the lore really don't fill it out.

But compare it to the Horde's faction summary:

"The Horde is made up of orcs, Forsaken, tauren, trolls, blood elves, goblins, and most recently, pandaren (Huojin). Misunderstood and cast aside, these diverse and powerful races strive to overcome their differences and unite as one in order to win freedom for their people and prosper in a land that has come to hate them.
In the Horde, action and strength are valued above diplomacy, and its leaders earn respect by the blade, wasting no time with politics. The brutality of the Horde's champions is focused, giving a voice to those who fight for survival"

Diverse, Powerful, Freedom, Action, Strength, Brutality, Survival. Only two "Noble" ideals in the whole pack, Diverse and Freedom. The rest of it is buzzwords for violence, but not necessarily evil, yet the Horde is often the side getting attacked. Nevermind that the Tauren are wholly good and noble folk. Or that Orcs have a strong traditional code of honor that guides their actions. Also nothing about the horrors the Forsaken have enacted to defend themselves, or the trolls rise from cannibalistic savagery...

Traditionalist? I'll give that to the Alliance hands down. But the rest of it? High Minded Ideals that they just don't live up to.

[Dreadlack]

there's quite a bit of agreement that Blizzard is one of the best game companies out there... If not THE best.

Wait what? You have studios and companies like CD Project and even Valve out there and you're arguing that Blizzard is even close to the top? Though I agree lazy is not applicable.

On topic I'd love to see a bit more diversity on the allied races from the already present races. The lightforged and High Mountain fx feel a lot like a reskin.

[Steampunkette]

Valve is a good company. CD Project is, too. But Blizzard is absolutely up there, rubbing shoulders with those two and a handful of others that stand head and shoulders above other game developers.

[MrDragon]

Valve is a good company. CD Project is, too. But Blizzard is absolutely up there, rubbing shoulders with those two and a handful of others that stand head and shoulders above other game developers.

TBH as much as I am a Blizzard fanboy on the whole... I still feel they do plenty wrong and should be held accountable when they fuck up like with the DIII auctionhouse.
Valve is also not squeaky clean as they refuse to curate Steam which is a hot steaming pile of garbage when you consider just how much shady business goes on there with dumpster-tier developers copy-pasting unity dev kits as full-price games etc. (see the works of Cid Alpha and Jim Sterling on the topic.)
CD Project Red is absolutely wonderful for consumers but their working conditions are notoriously horrible and they have an incredibly high staff turnover rate as a result. (Excellent coverage of the topic by Yong Yea.)

[Syegfryed]

See, you lose all credibility when you say things like "Blizzard is lazy" and "tends not to give the player base what they want." First of all, there's quite a bit of agreement that Blizzard is one of the best game companies out there... If not THE best. Second, don't ever say they're lazy. They work extremely hard to put out quality games, and they take longer than most because they won't release anything before they feel it's ready. They never rush things, despite what MMO-C forum posters say. Lastly, they've produced the best and most successful mmorpg ever, revolutionizing the genre and multiplying the playerbase many fold. The game is more popular a decade later than the previous most popular one was at its height. So don't give me any of your bullshit just because you want to whine about a little slight you felt.

they never rush things? WoD disagree with you

You can drop to your knees and suck blizzard but blizzard tend to not give players what they want and take the community ideas and ruin it, like the hous system with Garrisons and now the subraces with this bullshit.

[Worgster]

"Honorable" races in the Alliance? Heeee... Nope.

Orcs are honorable.

Have you read about anything about Garrosh a Uncorrupt OG Mag'Har orc yup orcs are so honorable... Tauren on the other hand are very honorable probably the most honorable race.

[Steampunkette]

Have you read about anything about Garrosh a Uncorrupt OG Mag'Har orc yup orcs are so honorable... Tauren on the other hand are very honorable probably the most honorable race.

As I noted in the section you so markedly sliced off:

They've got a whole social mythos based on honor determining codes of conduct that they sometimes undermine.

The Alliance are written in their description as honorable, noble, focused on Justice, and so forth. But for the most part the storylines and quests we go on have no reference to honor in them. Dwarves and Humans both get a couple, but that's about it.

Even dishonorable Garrosh Hellscream followed the rules of the Mak'Gorah, while Thrall broke them. When Garrosh learned one of his men had attacked Nelves against his orders, he killed him for it citing the responsibility to uphold Honor. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Garrosh was anything but a mass murdering genocidal Hitler Stand-in relying on Orcish Hypernationalism to try and reinvent the Horde in his image... just saying that even he specifically called out Honor as a motivator for some of his actions.

The humans have codes of honor, no doubt, but they're just generic medieval unspoken rules of conduct that get undermined without warning and barely mention (Like when the Admiral ordered the murder of unarmed surrendering soldiers). She still has her commission, by the way. She's the one who flies Genn to Stormheim to sneak-attack the Forsaken in an unprovoked act of war. So... Y'know. Kinda shoots "Justice" in the foot when there were a shitton of witnesses including an SI:7 agent who specifically called for her -not- to order the murder.

The Alliance isn't -about- honor at all. That's not a defining factor of their characterization in a meaningful way. Being generic protagonist fantasy races kinda is.

[StraTosSpeAr]

Possible ones that could make sense...

Alliance:
Any variety of Humans (Kul'Tiras, Stromgarde, Dalaran, etc.)
High Elves (have fun with this one)
Broken Draenei
Jinyu
Wildhammer Dwarves
Sand Gnomes
Mechagnomes
Earthen

Horde:
Forsaken (of any alternate race)
Orcs (Fel Orcs, Draenor Orcs)
Taunka
Other Troll Tribes (Forest Trolls, Ice Trolls, etc.)
Hozen
Ogres (any number of tribes)

Neutral (a la Pandaren):
Goblins (add in more Goblin cartels)
Dark Iron Dwarves
Arrakoa

And to un-fuck the stupid arbitrary shit just trying to give the Horde "pretty" races, Blood elves and Nigthborne should leave the Horde.

As a side note, I find it so cute when people try to bash the Alliance as "bland" or "uninspiring" or "cliche" or any number of other things, implying that the Horde is somehow unique, interesting, or otherwise original. It's funny because that's a load of crap; almost nothing about the Horde is interesting or original. First off, no one gave a shit about the Horde until they got Blood Elves. Second, playing as Undead, Goblins, and Orcs is in no way original at all; these are tropes that were long established in D&D, the prior Warcraft games for a decade before WoW came out, and other fantasy games and settings. Their stories are also terrible and cliche for the most part, just like all of the Alliance racial stories Third, the only even remotely "different" or "interesting" things about the Horde are 1) Trolls, 2) Tauren, and 3) The Undead storyline of trying to preserve their race and the ethical dilemma of preserving the Forsaken. Even so, none of these are particularly praise-worthy, since Trolls are little more than Orcs that brutally rip off Jamaican accents and vague references to islander/voodoo culture, Tauren are just peaceful Native American Minotaurs, and the Undead storyline has been beaten to death and driven into the ground with Blizzard's less-than-adequate writing skills. Not only this, but WoW alone has been running for over a dozen years; anything that could have been considered "original" or "fresh" has long become a fantasy trope that is copied in countless other IP's.

You're not "cool" or "different" because you play Horde. You're just as cliche'd and unoriginal as every Elf or Human or Dwarf player due to the very fact that everyone jumped on that bandwagon of "playing (insert Horde race) is different and edgy!" a decade ago. Most any race in fantasy/sci-fi is just some kind of personification or extreme of human personality traits or desires; Orcs = tribal archetypes of honor, warrior culture, etc. Elves = pinnacles of grace, beauty, intelligence, and a desire for immortality. Dwarves = gruffness, industrial skills, love for drinking, etc. WoW Goblins = greed. Tauren = Direct ripoff of Native American culture. Night Elves/Wood Elves = extreme environmentalists that care for the natural world around them and are "in tune" with it. Dark Elves = embodiment of ultimate hedonistic/masochistic/sadistic tendencies. Undead = our fear of death and what it would mean to "defeat" it. Humans = "the human spirit", i.e. adaptability, passion, etc. This list could go on and on and apply to most any race in any fantasy/sci-fi setting. Humans can be just as interesting as Elves who can be just as interesting as Undead or Orcs or anyone else. It entirely depends on the quality of writing around them, and I think we can all agree that Blizzard's writing is uniformly terrible for all races.

As a disclaimer, I've been playing since Vanilla beta and I've played both factions extensively. I don't have a preference for either.

[Atalai]

Imagine the hype if the cinematic at the end showed a ogre just beat 300 gnomes with one swing... and then the announcement ogres will be a new race for the horde.. ive just smashed my pc
oneday.. oneday
(c)
A comment from battle net I laughed a little too hard at.

[------------------------]

enough with allied races, just make ethereal a neutral race and we'll be happy

[Arenchac of Suramar]

TBH as much as I am a Blizzard fanboy on the whole... I still feel they do plenty wrong and should be held accountable when they fuck up like with the DIII auctionhouse.
Valve is also not squeaky clean as they refuse to curate Steam which is a hot steaming pile of garbage when you consider just how much shady business goes on there with dumpster-tier developers copy-pasting unity dev kits as full-price games etc. (see the works of Cid Alpha and Jim Sterling on the topic.)
CD Project Red is absolutely wonderful for consumers but their working conditions are notoriously horrible and they have an incredibly high staff turnover rate as a result. (Excellent coverage of the topic by Yong Yea.)

Honestly, while Blizzard has made a few stupid mistakes here and there, I think their primary strength is that, unlike many other companies, they are very quick to say "K. We fucked up."

The removal of the Diablo III Auction House, for example, was a good display of this. They knew they screwed up, they admitted they screwed up, and they fixed the issue. That's something you don't see much from companies these days.

- - - Updated - - -

they never rush things? WoD disagree with you

You can drop to your knees and suck blizzard but blizzard tend to not give players what they want and take the community ideas and ruin it, like the hous system with Garrisons and now the subraces with this bullshit.

The fact that WoD was literally filler between two of the best expansions (WoD and Legion) and the fact that they learned from their many, many mistakes with it aside, what exactly is the issue with Allied Races?

[Atalai]

Don't throw rocks at me for a few following suggestions:
As you remember, something terrible is buried beneath ZulAman, so when time comes in BfA and this thing rises up, it would be Alliance that saves what's left of Amani in exchange for their assistance in Silvermoon offensive. And even though Amani do not fit into Alliance vibe at all, well.. yeah, sin'dorei, I am looking at you.
This would also be a way to give Alliance shadow hunter class race when the class becomes introduced. Yes, just another suggestion.

- - - Updated - - -

As for us Hordies, I would vote for the whole Ogrezonia thing. As we know, it was once mentioned as an island somewhere on Azeroth where ogre females are met. Maybe there was a huge breakup between two sexes of ogres; now, as the Horde champion, your mission is to make it up for the divided race and secure their happy family life in the ranks of the Horde.

[MrDragon]

Don't throw rocks at me for a few following suggestions:
As you remember, something terrible is buried beneath ZulAman, so when time comes in BfA and this thing rises up, it would be Alliance that saves what's left of Amani in exchange for their assistance in Silvermoon offensive. And even though Amani do not fit into Alliance vibe at all, well.. yeah, sin'dorei, I am looking at you.
This would also be a way to give Alliance shadow hunter class race when the class becomes introduced. Yes, just another suggestion.

- - - Updated - - -

As for us Hordies, I would vote for the whole Ogrezonia thing. As we know, it was once mentioned as an island somewhere on Azeroth where ogre females are met. Maybe there was a huge breakup between two sexes of ogres; now, as the Horde champion, your mission is to make it up for the divided race and secure their happy family life in the ranks of the Horde.

As much as I am horrified at "losing" the Amani to the Alliance. (Technically we never had the Amani as they were members of the Horde under Orgrim, not the new one formed by Thrall.) I find this an intriguing idea that I could see happening. I'm sceptical because of the Raventusk Tribe (Which are Amani trolls) already being Horde aligned but narratively I wouldn't find it that strange.

Ogrezonia sounds more like a gag then anything but to be honest... the idea of a matriarchal tribe of humanoids becoming playable would fill in a niche we currently lack and also shore up the lack of notable female characters the Horde has if they introduce a cool ogress chieftainess. (1 notable female character does not cut it.) (Originally in WC3 it seemed like Nightelves were matriarchal, savage and amazonian almost... turns out that was wrong....)
And the idea of a matriarchal twist on the brutish Ogre seem like a nice subversive touch to really make them fresh and exciting.
What's more, with the Gorian Architecture found at the Seething Shore, this seems like it just might be plausible. There could be an actual ogre society out and about on Azeroth that keeps to itself.

[Ogren]

It's arguable, @Ogren, but the game and the lore really don't fill it out.

But compare it to the Horde's faction summary:

"The Horde is made up of orcs, Forsaken, tauren, trolls, blood elves, goblins, and most recently, pandaren (Huojin). Misunderstood and cast aside, these diverse and powerful races strive to overcome their differences and unite as one in order to win freedom for their people and prosper in a land that has come to hate them.
In the Horde, action and strength are valued above diplomacy, and its leaders earn respect by the blade, wasting no time with politics. The brutality of the Horde's champions is focused, giving a voice to those who fight for survival"

Diverse, Powerful, Freedom, Action, Strength, Brutality, Survival. Only two "Noble" ideals in the whole pack, Diverse and Freedom. The rest of it is buzzwords for violence, but not necessarily evil, yet the Horde is often the side getting attacked. Nevermind that the Tauren are wholly good and noble folk. Or that Orcs have a strong traditional code of honor that guides their actions. Also nothing about the horrors the Forsaken have enacted to defend themselves, or the trolls rise from cannibalistic savagery...

Traditionalist? I'll give that to the Alliance hands down. But the rest of it? High Minded Ideals that they just don't live up to.

Alliance are described as being bound by honor when the Pandaren player has to choose which faction to join as well.

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.ne...e_pandaren.jpg

Perhaps it's more of a failing on the writer's part to portray the Alliance that way. Either that or maybe they intend the Alliance to only aspire to high ideals and fall short of it because they are flawed, but the quality of the writing does not adequately service that idea well enough and mainly just entails the Alliance holding the idiot ball way too many times. Ultimately though, I disagree that the Alliance never get portrayed as emphasizing these ideals and feel they've done it enough to the point that I think the Alliance is too good to the point of being boring. I think the idea that they are bound by morality has somewhat homogenized all the races under the umbrella of humans, and that's also a common criticism from other fans as well.

[Deleted]

Don't throw rocks at me for a few following suggestions:
As you remember, something terrible is buried beneath ZulAman, so when time comes in BfA and this thing rises up, it would be Alliance that saves what's left of Amani in exchange for their assistance in Silvermoon offensive. And even though Amani do not fit into Alliance vibe at all, well.. yeah, sin'dorei, I am looking at you.
This would also be a way to give Alliance shadow hunter class race when the class becomes introduced. Yes, just another suggestion.

- - - Updated - - -

As for us Hordies, I would vote for the whole Ogrezonia thing. As we know, it was once mentioned as an island somewhere on Azeroth where ogre females are met. Maybe there was a huge breakup between two sexes of ogres; now, as the Horde champion, your mission is to make it up for the divided race and secure their happy family life in the ranks of the Horde.

I pointed this out in a different threat, but it would make perfect sense pragmatically for the Amani to join up the Alliance and for the Alliance to accept the Amani. The Amani can be used as forces in their Silvermoon Conquest and with Zul'aman they would have a powerful stronghold in Quel'thalas. For the Amani on the other Hand, the Alliance is the faction where they can win the most. The Horde can offer them nothing but to die for the safety of the Blood Elves. As Members of the Alliance on the other Hand, they have everything they ever wanted to win: Quel'thalas. All it would take would be a Warlord of the Amani who is pragmatic enough to see the only chance his people will ever again have to reconquer their lost lands.

[Steampunkette]

Alliance are described as being bound by honor when the Pandaren player has to choose which faction to join as well.

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.ne...e_pandaren.jpg

Perhaps it's more of a failing on the writer's part to portray the Alliance that way. Either that or maybe they intend the Alliance to only aspire to high ideals and fall short of it because they are flawed, but the quality of the writing does not adequately service that idea well enough and mainly just entails the Alliance holding the idiot ball way too many times. Ultimately though, I disagree that the Alliance never get portrayed as emphasizing these ideals and feel they've done it enough to the point that I think the Alliance is too good to the point of being boring. I think the idea that they are bound by morality has somewhat homogenized all the races under the umbrella of humans, and that's also a common criticism from other fans as well.

For what it's worth I didn't say they "Never" get their honor actively presented front and center, only that it doesn't happen often at all, and basically only among humans and dwarves. Meanwhile the Orcs mention honor all the time and present it as their motivations quite often. So do the Tauren in various questlines.

It's definitely an issue of the writers declaring the Alliance is all about Honor/Justice/Nobility/Etc and then expecting that to be "Enough". Meanwhile they present the Horde as dishonorable or at least not -particularly- honorable, but feel the need to constantly remind us in quests that Orcs and Tauren, specifically, -are- Honorable. Like, as a way to make them stand out from the other races of the Horde.

And I get that? Like, from a writer's standpoint, but it remains a problem. And yeah, the Alliance is -absolutely- overwhelmed by Humanity. But a part of that is that they never developed inhuman cultures for -any- of the races. Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Blood Elves are all presented as pretty much generic fantasy revisionist medieval europe. The Tauren are made like Native Americans, the Orcs are just barbaric humans from generic fantasy, and so on and so forth. Even the Draenei seem to just have a standard pseudo-historical culture. They just happen to be space goats with neat technology that still runs on magic.

Technology shapes culture, and culture shapes technology. But no matter how mystically advanced or technologically curious a race is, in WoW, they remain early Renaissance at best.

It's a frustrating issue with "Standard" fantasy.

[Hallowseve17]

While the whole "Amani for Alliance" idea in interesting, I have to respectfully disagree. Yes, it would add an interesting dynamic to the Alliance if forest trolls joined them, and it makes sense to some capacity, but the forest trolls were once members of the Horde...the Revantusk tribe were formerly part of the Amani Empire. It would be a punch in the face to the Horde, if all of a sudden the Alliance got forest trolls, especially since the Revantusk have made brief appearances in a few Horde campaigns ever since Cataclysm.

We also must remember that forest trolls are hateful people. They hate humans, high elves and dwarves due to their involvement with conquering Quel'Thalas way back when. When it comes to Horde interaction, they really only hate the blood elves. However, it seems the Revantusk tribe has no ill feelings towards the blood elves, or they just tolerate them. They also seemingly get along with orcs and ogres.

[Steampunkette]

While the whole "Amani for Alliance" idea in interesting, I have to respectfully disagree. Yes, it would add an interesting dynamic to the Alliance if forest trolls joined them, and it makes sense to some capacity, but the forest trolls were once members of the Horde...the Revantusk tribe were formerly part of the Amani Empire. It would be a punch in the face to the Horde, if all of a sudden the Alliance got forest trolls, especially since the Revantusk have made brief appearances in a few Horde campaigns ever since Cataclysm.

We also must remember that forest trolls are hateful people. They hate humans, high elves and dwarves due to their involvement with conquering Quel'Thalas way back when. When it comes to Horde interaction, they really only hate the blood elves. However, it seems the Revantusk tribe has no ill feelings towards the blood elves, or they just tolerate them. They also seemingly get along with orcs and ogres.

Pretty much all of the this^

That said, if the Amani were to join the Alliance, which would be a very cool turn of events, it would have to happen through some very -strong- circumstances. They've good reason to fight against the humans and elves not just because of Quel'thalas, but also because of Stromgarde. The sword of that ancient kingdom still strikes terror into trolls, to this day, because of how many it destroyed, after all.

I could see them joining as slaves, bound and broken and forced to serve. It would play on both the Alliance's past history with Orcish Slavery, which would piss off the Hordies fairly strongly, and it would give the Alliance a chance to play out the Shackled archetype from fantasy and myth. The bound warrior who longs for the day that he will be free to fight against his former masters...

I could see them playing on the idea of the Amani being trapped between the Horde and Alliance and choosing to side with the more powerful force (The Alliance does own most of the EK after all) as part of a push to destroy Quel'thalas (Which could happen if/when Silvermoon gets added to the main map instead of the BC map and be a good reason to both add it in -and- update it significantly). They'd be able to, at least to some degree, undermine the "The alliance is basically just humans and human-analogues!" issue many people see.

But outside of those kinds of circumstances I just don't see it as likely, or worthwhile...

Any Player Race should tell a story, or give us the opportunity to tell new stories. Adding generic recolors of existing races is ultimately self-defeating because it doesn't give us anything new beyond skin tones. It's why I think the Void Elves are a good idea: It's a new story that will go forward.

... that said I'd love to see Enslaved Amani as an Alliance PC Race, now that I've considered it a little.

[Drewbacca]

Pretty much all of the this^

That said, if the Amani were to join the Alliance, which would be a very cool turn of events, it would have to happen through some very -strong- circumstances. They've good reason to fight against the humans and elves not just because of Quel'thalas, but also because of Stromgarde. The sword of that ancient kingdom still strikes terror into trolls, to this day, because of how many it destroyed, after all.

I could see them joining as slaves, bound and broken and forced to serve. It would play on both the Alliance's past history with Orcish Slavery, which would piss off the Hordies fairly strongly, and it would give the Alliance a chance to play out the Shackled archetype from fantasy and myth. The bound warrior who longs for the day that he will be free to fight against his former masters...

I could see them playing on the idea of the Amani being trapped between the Horde and Alliance and choosing to side with the more powerful force (The Alliance does own most of the EK after all) as part of a push to destroy Quel'thalas (Which could happen if/when Silvermoon gets added to the main map instead of the BC map and be a good reason to both add it in -and- update it significantly). They'd be able to, at least to some degree, undermine the "The alliance is basically just humans and human-analogues!" issue many people see.

But outside of those kinds of circumstances I just don't see it as likely, or worthwhile...

Any Player Race should tell a story, or give us the opportunity to tell new stories. Adding generic recolors of existing races is ultimately self-defeating because it doesn't give us anything new beyond skin tones. It's why I think the Void Elves are a good idea: It's a new story that will go forward.

... that said I'd love to see Enslaved Amani as an Alliance PC Race, now that I've considered it a little.

I can't see them ever making a player race a slave or conquered race. The player character becomes too much of a hero and is made a commander of the armies. I think you could only have willing members be player characters.