Out of control! Antorus normal be 945 and ahead of the curve Antorus or no invite

[Vargarii]

The player base has never been very good. It's just that the previous design excluded large fractions of it that weren't good enough.

I agree about the player base, I've played since vanilla and I've felt it was toxic for years, now. However, is it really taboo to label Normal mode raids as easy?

[Osmeric]

I agree about the player base, I've played since vanilla and I've felt it was toxic for years, now. However, is it really taboo to label Normal mode raids as easy?

It's not taboo so much as obtuse. Difficulty is always in the context of a set of players. Normal is easy for people who previously raided in harder content. It's not easy for the players for whom it is intended. It's too difficult for the players for whom LFR is intended.

Just saying something "is easy" without specifying for whom is like building a bridge that extends into the air and stops. It's an incomplete and useless statement.

[Vargarii]

It's not taboo so much as obtuse. Difficulty is always in the context of a set of players. Normal is easy for people who previously raided in harder content. It's not easy for the players for whom it is intended. It's too difficult for the players for whom LFR is intended.

Just saying something "is easy" without specifying for whom is like building a bridge that extended into the air and stops. It's an incomplete and useless statement.

I'll admit that since I typically do higher end content in my pve games, I have a hard time relating to the struggle, but I can understand the point you're making. I had just been surprised to see someone bothered by it, since most people in my circles would agree. As you stated, though, in a game with a player base this large and skills varying, it's going to be different for everyone.

[Dreknar20]

and its blizzard job as devs to ban the fuck out of all addons which let this happen.

yeah, basing invites on a pinkie promise that they arnt bad sounds so much better

[Deleted]

Its called guild and here is problem. Some ppl just cant raid in guilds because they need you to be on nearly every raid. If i am working 6-14 and 14-22 i simply cant because guild dont accept it.

Some ppl got own familiy etc, they cant progress a lot in 4-6 weeks. There are even guild that need more time to clear raid and they need you to be for them nearly always or even better if you never miss raid.

When i was going to school 5 years ago it was no problem. I was on every raid but now i cant:/

I hope the new feature from BoA, these communitys, solve this. Reducing the "pls be always there when the guild raids" to: "Hey we are going Raiding now, who wants to join?" If you are an "a-hole" and leave after 1 wipe or something in that sort, there should be a ban option for the community, so people get some manners back.

Nobody is forcing you to use group finder. If you want to make things harder for yourself go ahead, but I'll keep group finder pls thx bye.

Yes blizzard does, you can't use alternatives when the playerbase is useing group finder, even when a lot of poeple are hating it.

And lets be honest: Group finder is a joke: I "can't" set filter for specific raids and when I do, I can't search for a specific Boss. The options avaiable for searching shit is really bad. You can set up a group for 960+, but I can't search for 960+ groups only with filters. I cant search for a voice group, when I wan't a voice group. I can't set the raid type: Progress or farm: If you want to get into a farm group, you need multi clear. The tool is a nice idea, the implementation is garbage.

[ydraw]

I hope the new feature from BoA, these communitys, solve this. Reducing the "pls be always there when the guild raids" to: "Hey we are going Raiding now, who wants to join?" If you are an "a-hole" and leave after 1 wipe or something in that sort, there should be a ban option for the community, so people get some manners back.



Yes blizzard does, you can't use alternatives when the playerbase is useing group finder, even when a lot of poeple are hating it.

And lets be honest: Group finder is a joke: I "can't" set filter for specific raids and when I do, I can't search for a specific Boss. The options avaiable for searching shit is really bad. You can set up a group for 960+, but I can't search for 960+ groups only with filters. I cant search for a voice group, when I wan't a voice group. I can't set the raid type: Progress or farm: If you want to get into a farm group, you need multi clear. The tool is a nice idea, the implementation is garbage.

It's still far, far better than not having a group finder.

You said it yourself: The community is using it. They aren't being forced to. They are using it because it's better than not using it.

People who want to go back to spamming trade chat can GTFO as far as I am concerned, group finder is a massive improvement over that.

[Seezer]

Ok guys, this is just first week or raid.

It feels like WoW = ilvl. Nothing more.

Something must be made by Blizzard to fix this problem. If you play one char, you probable don't have it, but if you play more, this is unacceptable.

Is not the first time when happens, this problem persist.

You have to increase ilvl for pugs because getting rando's together for a raid with heavy mechanics is a derp waiting to happen. Nothing needs to be done by blizzard. You have all the control to start your own group. But people don't want to do that. They just want to bitch on forums about it. To take away ilvl from the equation you would need to remove stats completely. Because there will always be a way to measure character power.

- - - Updated - - -

and its blizzard job as devs to ban the fuck out of all addons which let this happen.

It's not addons doing anything. Even without addons players can find a way to see character power. You say "Take away ilvl then". Yeah so you can get fresh 110's with 780 ilvl equivalent gear jumping into your raid pulling 150k dps. People just get emotional about other people and want to find a way to get satisfaction over feeling rejected. And as someone has said before:

Start
Your
Own
Group

No excuse not to. You can invite whoever you want that way.

[david0925]

It's still far, far better than not having a group finder.

You said it yourself: The community is using it. They aren't being forced to. They are using it because it's better than not using it.

People who want to go back to spamming trade chat can GTFO as far as I am concerned, group finder is a massive improvement over that.

I completely agree. It is actually really annoying that people are looking at vanilla (and tbc) with such rose-tinted glasses and completely ignore the fact that the game is so much more different then. Ironically, the only thing that actually changed very little is how people behave themselves, contrary to popular belief.

It is NOT fun spending 30 minutes in trade to put together a group, only to run into an incompetent member or two and needing to repeat the process constantly going back to IF/Org. If I blacklisted every clueless player back then on my server before I settled into guild-only group, I probably would have run out of ignore list space. This is also ignoring the fact that low population servers struggle very hard to put together organized groups, may it be 5 man or raids (and since Mythic Raids today isn't cross realm, you still can see guilds on low population struggle unless they are so good that they attract cross server applicants)

Vetting will exist, no matter how much information people want to hide from others. In vanilla I can vet people based on the gear and enchant they use, but it is nowhere as accurate as the tools we have today (not saying they are perfect, but they are much better than mere gear inspection), and if you can't stand vetting, you probably don't belong in any farming group. That is completely fine, you can always start your own, or join a learning group. Why aren't you doing that? Geez, I wonder.

[Rootkitt]

and its blizzard job as devs to ban the fuck out of all addons which let this happen.

Why? I think its stupid that people do it too, but blizzard shouldn't regulate and dictate every facet of the game. You have to let the community do what it wants sometimes. If you find this to be a real issue, JOIN A GUILD. Even a casual guild can escape you from all of this.

Like really listen to yourself, you want blizzard to ban anything that gives people the ability to know what gear you have, and what experience you've had with the current raid tier. Get real.

[Marrilaife]

I completely agree. It is actually really annoying that people are looking at vanilla (and tbc) with such rose-tinted glasses and completely ignore the fact that the game is so much more different then. Ironically, the only thing that actually changed very little is how people behave themselves, contrary to popular belief.

It is NOT fun spending 30 minutes in trade to put together a group, only to run into an incompetent member or two and needing to repeat the process constantly going back to IF/Org. If I blacklisted every clueless player back then on my server before I settled into guild-only group, I probably would have run out of ignore list space. This is also ignoring the fact that low population servers struggle very hard to put together organized groups, may it be 5 man or raids (and since Mythic Raids today isn't cross realm, you still can see guilds on low population struggle unless they are so good that they attract cross server applicants)

Indeed. Back then pugging end game content was rare if even existent, you could pug deadmines / wailing caverns while levelling (depending on faction) but end game content was a problem.

Let's take TBC heroic dungeons which was "puggable" content. You could be completely unable to find a tank or healer willing to do a specific instance, you'd have to go beg around trying to find one (especially for more annoying dungeons), many people who played tank or healer were tired of constant pestering of friends of friends to do some of the lame dungeons. If you were a dps, you could be denied any group just based on the class / spec you play. Then if you were accepted, you were asked questions like "how many blues / epics do you have? what is your +spell damage?" and so forth. And even if you jumped through all the hoops, the group could disband for any small reason (a guy dcing, someone "has to go", etc.) and due to lockout system you usually would not get any interest for a non-fresh run, so you couldn't find replacement and you had to concede the run.

Pugging now is 10 times easier due to personal lockout per boss kill instead of static ID, personal loot, flex raid size, cross realm grouping and group finder tool.

[endersblade]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but do we not see one of these threads pop up for EVERY RAID that comes out?

[Marrilaife]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but do we not see one of these threads pop up for EVERY RAID that comes out?

There is a bucket list of subjects that keep being regurgitated all the time, for example:
- "delete lfr"
- "why vanilla was better"
- "people are elitist" / "people are noobs"
- "hey guys tell me a fotm spec to play" (at least these are against forum rules so get locked fast)
and many more. Apparently some things never get old. This is 27 pages and going strong.

[david0925]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but do we not see one of these threads pop up for EVERY RAID that comes out?

There's quite a few people that don't play the game and just want to troll the threads by trying to trigger people. For others, I don't know, there's a weird sense of entitlement to get in pugs hosted by other players when they can't compete on resume?

[Sylvaeres]

I don't play the game anymore, but since when is it wrong to state that doing a normal raid is "easy"? Has the difficulty curve on content jumped sky high, or has the player base fallen so low?

My god, are you intentionally trying to be moronic? You're talking about getting carried at 915 and trying to sound like youre some sort of pro. ok kid

[Laqweeta]

There's a lot of bads in WoW, the $15 per month can only do so much. :/

[RennacUnF]

Wut? Ive cleared it on 3 alts for the past 2 weeks and I dont have aotc.

[Deleted]

Wut? Ive cleared it on 3 alts for the past 2 weeks and I dont have aotc.

But did you apply with those alts to the aotc groups or did you apply to groups at the level of your alts?

The problem is not that groups are requiring aotc, the problem is that players without aotc and low item level apply to those groups and ignoring the hundreds of 925 and 930 groups and then get mad, because they aren't invited into the fast, smooth aotc runs.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

There is a bucket list of subjects that keep being regurgitated all the time, for example:
- "delete lfr"
- "why vanilla was better"
- "people are elitist" / "people are noobs"
- "hey guys tell me a fotm spec to play" (at least these are against forum rules so get locked fast)
and many more. Apparently some things never get old. This is 27 pages and going strong.

You left out "Do you think we should have flying at launch?"

[Deleted]

I've read "start an own group" as a solution now a couple of times, but the problem with that is, if everyone did that, the raidfinder would be cluttered with groups consisting of 2-3 dps that can't find healers or tanks and then the groups disband anyway.
Also people who aren't good as a raidleader shouldn't lead a raid, even if there's not much to coordinate if everyone knows the raid. I've seen horrible rls in pugs, most often way too many healers are invited too, so that the fights take unnecessary longer. Just because 5 high ilvl healers sign up, doesn't mean you have to invite them all if then there are only 10-12 dps.

I didn't have too many problems with normal mode yet though, but getting in a even half decent heroic group without aotc is impossible. I once looked though groups before I had the achievement and literally only 3 groups didn't ask for aotc, I looked up the leaders and they were around 910 ilvl without even normal mode clear and they invited anything that signed up just to get their raids full. There were no middle ground groups at all. Like 930 min ilvl groups that at least knew the bosses from normal mode and were willing to progress.

[Hashtronaut]

And then people complain vanilla was better because "it had a sense of community". While it was pug unfriendly and queue mode didn't exist.

so true will actually need to join and participant in a guild on classic servers