Is it cheap to want to split or pay each for themselves on dates?

[Talsar]

Yes, it's cheap. Can also make some think you are poor. xD

What does not afford to survive have to do with paying on dates? xD

You just answered your own question lmao. Will make some people think that you're poor.

OT: I don't consider it cheap personally, but I still always pay on the first few dates. I reckon western society on the whole is trending towards splitting being more acceptable. Interestingly (If my friends from China and Korea are anything to go by) It's still very much expected that the guy will pay for everything In Eastern society.

[SilverWolf26]

Responding to Katie N. if she's still following... I got married in my early forties with two children. Don't believe the stereotypes. Be yourself, be honest, and find someone like you.

[Deleted]

From my experience, any woman worth hanging out with/dating is willing to at least chip in from time to time. So, maybe you pay for food the first time you two are out. It's pretty common on the second time for her to insist to either pay for it or at least her portion. Again, my own experience.

If you ever meet one who expects you to pay for everything, that should be a red flag.

I always pay on the first date, but the location depends if she's a random person (online dating) or know her thru friends. If it's online dating I'd say stick to some coffee or tea/soda and maybe a dessert/pastry since that's like $10 and you can pay for her. Know her thru friends, means you've seen her before, friends might vouche for her, then you can go to have a dinner and drinks afterwards, pay for her dinner. At worst if she's not interested you still get to be friends and most likley will still see each other due to the friends connection.

[Zafire]

If you told me I'd have to split or pay then you wouldn't get a second date. That means you're either a cheapskate or that you're poor, none of which I will put up with.

So it's okay for you to be a cheapskate or poor? A bit biased, aren't we?

[ls-]

Please explain what's wrong with 30 and a kid? Y3ah some idiots won't like that but oh well.

In many Asian countries being older than 25 and unmarried is quite bad for a woman, people start thinking that something is wrong w/ her, in some countries there's even terms like "trash/leftover women" for them.

Being a divorced woman, even w/o a kid, is pretty much social suicide in many places here. Unlike in the West or many other places marriage is a union of 2 families here, so it's quite hard to find someone who wants to date or marry you if your previous marriage failed, having kids from another person means that 3rd party gets involved indirectly.

All these things are extremely important for the majority of locals, thus dating foreigners is a better option for divorced/older women w/ or w/o kids because foreigners tend to ignore such things.

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You just answered your own question lmao. Will make some people think that you're poor.

OT: I don't consider it cheap personally, but I still always pay on the first few dates. I reckon western society on the whole is trending towards splitting being more acceptable. Interestingly (If my friends from China and Korea are anything to go by) It's still very much expected that the guy will pay for everything In Eastern society.

IMHO, USA is no different from Asia, Russia or Eastern Europe in this regard. Western/Central Europe on the other hand is quite different from USA.

[Mormolyce]

Well it's always a risk you run, to be honest. Some people will think you're being cheap. My wife was vaguely annoyed that I offered to pay. Just depends on the person.

In the spirit of Feminism and Equality I never pay for my dates at all and only pay for myself.


For some reason women don't like that, must be the Patriarchy

Did you ask them out, or did they ask you?

[pateuvasiliu]

When you pay you're setting yourself up to be Beta Bucks, showing that your time is worth less than hers, so you have to pay to make up for the gap.

This is 2018. I don't know what friends you people have, but when we go out we go out as a group, not as me taking them out for a treat. I will pay for drinks on occasion but I will specifically mention that it's my treat.

[l33t]

Yes, its cheap.

It does not surprise me in a slightest though that modern men ask such questions.

[Strawberry]

Yes it's cheap. I have yet to find a girl who was happy to pay the whole bill on our date.

[gaymer77]

Yes, it's cheap. Can also make some think you are poor. xD

You not being able to pay your own way makes you look like a person who can't survive on your own & has to rely on others to support you. If anything not being able to pay your own way make YOU look poor not a guy look poor because he doesn't pay your way too. It also makes you look like a gold digger.

What does not afford to survive have to do with paying on dates? xD

Its quite simple, if you can't pay for your own meal or movie then obviously you can't afford to help him out with the bills if you were to live together or get married.

If you told me I'd have to split or pay then you wouldn't get a second date. That means you're either a cheapskate or that you're poor, none of which I will put up with.

Ah yes Freighter the same bitch who replied to another post like a month ago about what qualities you look for in someone & some of those qualities are that he's able to support you and he's "not poor". Yeah, you are truly a piece of crap gold digger. The more and more you speak the more and more you look like a horrible who is looking for a man to pay her way in life. These guys who tell you that you have to pay any portion of a date should consider themselves lucky for not having to put up with you so I guess you're actually doing them a favor by not going out with them again. You speak as if a man owes you something just because you have a vagina. Not paying for you does not mean he's a cheapskate or poor unlike your belief. It means he doesn't know you and that you're not entitled to jack crap just because you're a woman.

It's that or they are cheapskates like freighter said. Not something good for marriage.

So a man who's "good for marriage" is one that pays 100% of the bills while you are free to spend your money on yourself as you see fit? Wouldn't not being able to pay your own way make YOU the one that's not "good for marriage" since you are placing the burden on him to support your entire family if you decide to get married and have kids?

That's not entitlement. It's me setting a bar to who I want to date and I don't want to date cheapskates or poor people, our lifestyles would be incompatible, my friends and family also wouldn't approve. It's as simple as that.

It actually is entitlement if you think he owes you anything just because you go out on a date sweetheart. In case you don't know what entitled means I'll help you out. The dictionary (Merrian-Webster) defines entitlement as "belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges". Your belief that someone owes you anything or that you're entitled to any is the textbook definition of entitlement whether you want to agree with it or not. And your stance that your friends or family wouldn't approve is a bullcrap answer. So your friends and family wouldn't approve of someone who cares about you and treats you right while PAYING HIS OWN WAY but they would approve of someone just because he pays shit for you? Sounds like its not just you but your entire family and friends that are a bunch of entitled pricks and any guy fortunate enough to get "weeded out" by you because he don't fork out his money to pay your way 100% of the time is the lucky one. You are literally the textbook definition of an entitled gold digger sweetheart. And to be honest, you and @Katie N sound no different than an escort or prostitute by your views on life. You are literally having a guy pay for you and if he doesn't then you won't continue seeing him. LITERALLY PAYING FOR YOUR TIME!

@Katie N @Freighter

You both know where this goes. You're posting on a forum with a high proportion of North American and European members, expectations on dating and family are going to be different across cultures. High context culture "my friends and family also wouldn't approve" is an example of something that many of those reading won't see as significant. Everyone is using the same language, but not viewing the situation through the same filters. No matter how you explain it, it is going to be perceived as privileged or unreasonable because of the culture clash.

This has nothing to do with being incorrectly perceived as privileged or a culture clash. Both of these women have clearly shown and stated that they would not date a guy who is poor. That's pretty cut & dry gold digger. The whole argument of "my friends and family also wouldn't approve" doesn't hold up. There are plenty of people out in the world from ALL cultures that have went on to date and even marry people their family didn't approve of initially. Some of those families came around and ended up welcoming the new person into the family after a while while others didn't. Here in the US interracial couples faced (and some still today face) disapproval from family members but because they loved the other person they had a kid or got married anyway. Each one of these women ( @Katie N @Freighter) have stated that money is the priority in the men they date which doesn't make it a friends & family approval type of thing. It makes it money type of thing. They are looking for a man to pay their way and support them. They aren't looking for a man who loves them. Money is priority #1

I'm still in Taiwan.

The girl in question is mixed white something/japanese who grew up mostly in Japan. She ordered more than I expected she would and I told her if she's gonna order that much then she's gonna have to pay either by splitting or paying for herself. Started an argument that I just couldn't be bothered with and she got pissed at me and left me with the bill for everything.

Sorry man but your date sounds like a bitch. You weren't in the wrong to ask her to help with the bill. No woman is entitled to having her meal paid unless you paid a prostitute or escort to join you. Women and men should be able to support themselves while on a date. You have absolutely no obligations to anyone else to pay their way unless you have clearly stated you will be doing so. If you can't support yourself on a date, it shows you can't support yourself in a relationship, which shows you can't support yourself while married.

The guy I'm dating now I've been dating for 4 years now. He's been a college student since we met and I'm the one with the income. I knew this going into dating and don't have a problem with it. He helps out when he can but for the most part I support both of us. I have no issues with this.

Infracted - Flaming

[pateuvasiliu]

Yes it's cheap. I have yet to find a girl who was happy to pay the whole bill on our date.

Nor will you if you keep treating them like they're superior to you

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Yes, it's cheap. Can also make some think you are poor. xD

So a man not paying for two is cheap/poor, but a woman not paying for herself isn't?

I know tradition is important in some parts of the world but you really should start replacing it with logic.

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Yes, its cheap.

It does not surprise me in a slightest though that modern men ask such questions.

If you want traditional men I expect a traditional woman. You better be a virgin during wedding night and pop out one kid a year. Also if you cheat you get ostracised.

[FuxieDK]

Is it cheap to expect that people will split or pay for themselves when you're dating? I was called cheap for suggesting splitting the bill. Is it actually cheap?

Women wants equality... That also means, they have to pay for their own dinner...

[pateuvasiliu]

Well it's always a risk you run, to be honest. Some people will think you're being cheap.

You don't want to date those people so that's a bullet dodged early. If they are such low quality people they're going to be trouble as a partner la ter on.

[l33t]

If you want traditional men I expect a traditional woman. You better be a virgin during wedding night and pop out one kid a year. Also if you cheat you get ostracised.

I am a man, surprise surprise. I love my gender role. Also, I am not a poor piece of garbage who counts every meal my woman eats and splits the bill afterwards, bleh.

I am generous, and I am proud of it, because that's what a real man should be. I often pay for my friends and colleagues as well, you know, for the very same reason, because for me being a penny-pinching trash is worse than having a gay son.

[pateuvasiliu]

I am a man, surprise surprise. I love my gender role. Also, I am not a poor piece of garbage who counts every meal my woman eats and splits the bill afterwards, bleh.

I am generous, and I am proud of it, because that's what a real man should be. I often pay for my friends and colleagues as well, you know, for the very same reason, because for me being a penny-pinching trash is worse than having a gay son.

Sounds like you reek of Beta, bro. If a woman is attracted to you, you don't need to pay her to stay with you. That's pretty pathetic.

You're not generous, that's just what you tell yourself. You're just afraid a woman won't like you if you don't pay. Which is why you don't pay for her, it shows you feel inferior to her, a lack of self confidence which reeks of Beta Bucks.

[Airlick]

I like to pay the full bill, but it's alright to split if the girl proposes it. It's also fine if she pays from time to time, but again, only if she proposes it.

Sounds like you reek of Beta, bro. If a woman is attracted to you, you don't need to pay her to stay with you. That's pretty pathetic.

I'm not sure who comes off as beta here, really. You're the one objectifying women when you're suggesting paying the bill for her means paying for her time. That's what's pathetic.

[l33t]

Sounds like you reek of Beta, bro. If a woman is attracted to you, you don't need to pay her to stay with you. That's pretty pathetic.

Too bad your dad didn't taught you how to be a real Man. Well, I won't waste my time on a pathetic cheapskate as well. Have fun.

[Mehrunes]

I really like how women like to hide behind "oh, I don't expect men to pay, but if you invite someone out you should pay" while conveniently ignoring that in stark majority of the world the onus to invite someone out (and initiate basically everything) is not on them but on men. At least female posters from Asia have the balls to admit what they are about in this regard.

The whole mentality revolves around the dated societal dynamics from back when women didn't earn much and actually had to be provided for, which, transplanted onto current setting, somewhat clashes with the concept of equality, particularly equal pay (even if you actually earned less than male workers in your company - in which case you have grounds to sue for decades - why would you expect both equal pay and men pampering you with their own extra wage?) and reduces both sexes to objects. Men to ATMs and women to some random commodity. Or maybe pets are more accurate, since this expectation reeks of parasitism.

Luckily, not really that common in Poland anymore. Which is kinda weird considering how conservative the country is generally speaking, but hey, it's a positive deviation. Or maybe it's just my region of Poland, but that'd be even weirder as it's more conservative even by Polish standards.

Support.

Also, insisting on being anal about every single cost is absolutely anti relationship material. I don't have time to deal with that shit.

You mean like "the guy has to pay for the first date or no go because he's going to be a shit provider" or more general "if the guy is splitting he's a useless provider/is not invested in the relationship/some other bogus projection" some people may have expressed in this thread? True, sounds very anal and even more of a not-a-dating-material.

If it isnt harmful, Europe shouldnt have a say, yes. That isnt a trumpism either, and you should know better than that.

Gender norms are harmful by default.

and as such a discussion forum, I can form my opinion on how silly your opinion is and that I don't think cultures should be "oh, so archaic" if its not harmful just because some people think they're so progressive but in actuality just have different values.

Even if gender norms weren't harmful because sexist expectations are suddenly all the rage or something, not being harmful isn't mutually exclusive with not archaic. Because the parts of the world that have different values to parts of Asia didn't have those values forever and in the past they had the exact same ones. Just so happened that with the societal changes brought by progress that happened to be one of said changes.

and I was only referring to you calling their dating things archaic. I know you said much of asia is modern. I just objected to calling a different value system archaic when it is merely different.

and it comes off as thinking your way is better. I mean its fine to disagree with a practice, but im not about to call something archaic when much of a modern area still uses it as part of their modern life and see it as part of their modern identity.

Much of Middle East is also modern. By that logic middle eastern countries using punishments like cutting the hands of thieves or stoning women for adultery aren't archaic but using it as a part of their modern life and their modern identity.

[pateuvasiliu]

Too bad your dad didn't taught you how to be a real Man. Well, I won't waste my time on a pathetic cheapskate as well. Have fun.

My dad did teach me how to be a real man. It's by having self respect and valuing your time enough to know that you don't need to pay someone to spend theirs with you.

If you feel you're inferior and have to tell yourself that you're not paying them to stay with you, by all means. Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel like a man.

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I really like how women like to hide behind "oh, I don't expect men to pay, but if you invite someone out you should pay" while conveniently ignoring that in stark majority of the world the onus to invite someone out (and initiate basically everything) is not on them but on men. At least female posters from Asia have the balls to admit what they are about in this regard.

How shocking.

[Deleted]

Why not let her pay for it? It's 2017 and women want to be treated equally, so they will have no problem with picking up the tab!