[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Mormolyce]

Nitpick; they're the last Force-users. Jedi is a specific religious order. Leia was never Jedi, and never expressed any desire to be.

Doesn't mean she couldn't use the Force. But that doesn't make her Jedi, by definition, just a Force user.

Fine, pick my nits then.

[Snuffleupagus]

That's about the emotional connection. Which, in the end, did get Palpatine killed. Not about the Force at all. Note that the above isn't about Vader's kids being a threat to Vader. They'd be a threat to Palpatine. By fucking up the mindscrew that Palpatine uses to keep Vader in check. Because Vader's the stronger of the two, remember.

Unless that's stated in the movies somewhere, that's headcanon too.

[tyrlaan]

Got plenty of training in that 2nd movie though...unlike Rey....
Disney fanbois need to make excuses for her. The rest of us want answers that should have been present in this lame 2nd movie.

Or maybe (a) some people like the movie and some don't and (b) you don't speak for everyone.

I finally watched this movie. Aside from Star wars lore that was changed or whatever sjw undertones existed in the movie, which I don't care about...
The movie is shit, poorly written, disjointed, filled with Deus ex moments, ruined character development, etc... I'm actually really really disappointed in it.

If you don't care about the "sjw undertones" why did you feel the need to include it in your comment?

[ablock87]

The worst people in the history of humankind, yes worse then Hitler, is the #NotMYLuke people.

Your hyperbole is so laughable, I hope your ISP sees this and turns off your internet.

If you don't care about the "sjw undertones" why did you feel the need to include it in your comment?

Because it's worth bringing up.

[Endus]

Unless that's stated in the movies somewhere, that's headcanon too.

It is.

Vader spends the whole time with Luke trying to get Luke to join him. The Rule of Two says he can't do that, without killing Palpatine. Luke's very existence re-awakens an emotional bond outside of the Emperor, and gives Anakin something to fight for.

The entire point of that last battle, where the Emperor is standing over Luke cackling and zapping him, and Vader looks from Luke, to the Emperor, to Luke, and makes his choice.

Luke.

And he kills the Emperor.

That's the entire point of the finale. Luke couldn't beat the Emperor. His dad couldn't bear to see him suffer. So he killed the Emperor. And that earned him redemption, which is why he shows up with Ben and Yoda as Force Ghosts at the end, in his not-a-crippled-psycho form (whether the original actor, or the new Christiansen version).

So no, it isn't remotely headcanon. It's the major plot arc of Return of the Jedi.

[tyrlaan]

Your hyperbole is so laughable, I hope your ISP sees this and turns off your internet.



Because it's worth bringing up.

Please elaborate on what qualifies TLJ as having "sjw undertones" and why it's worth bringing up.

[Sunseeker]

Please elaborate on what qualifies TLJ as having "sjw undertones" and why it's worth bringing up.

There's women who aren't in metal bikinis.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Got plenty of training in that 2nd movie though...unlike Rey....
Disney fanbois need to make excuses for her. The rest of us want answers that should have been present in this lame 2nd movie. Jumanji has a lot of good word-of-mouth going for it.
Last Jedi doesn't.

Lifting rocks and carrying a midget is not plenty of training.

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Please elaborate on what qualifies TLJ as having "sjw undertones" and why it's worth bringing up.

Well for one they show animal cruelty as a bad thing every one knows animals don’t have feelings, they should have had Finn, oh wait Finn is a darky they should have replaced him with kylo a good white boy from a pure white line. Shoot the dam horse thang and have a BBQ and enjoy some nice ribs while driving his speeder and shooting his blaster into the air while he makes the galaxy great again with the wooman in there place and the aliens and darkys put down.




This is a joke don’t hurt me mods.

[McFuu]

Or maybe (a) some people like the movie and some don't and (b) you don't speak for everyone.



If you don't care about the "sjw undertones" why did you feel the need to include it in your comment?

Because I find anytime I talk to people about the movie, including friends and others in real life they start complaining about this whole feminism thing or how only the women could lead, all the men were either bad guys, untrustworthy, or impetuous hotheads... And judging from the thread, it seems to be the first thing people start discussing about the movie.
Number one, I didn't even notice any of this "sjw" nonsense when I watched the movie.
Number two, 3 of the characters that supposedly got Mary Sue treatments were completely undeveloped, and completely moronic in their actions. Side kick Asian chick served no purpose in the entire movie except to deliver some weak line after stopping Finn, purple haired admiral for some reason thought it was a great idea to not get away from.... Or tell anyone... Ohh let's just say that was the biggest piece of shit plot hole for a chekovs gun in movie history, And Leia was dead for the whole movie... Can't be a Mary Sue if there is no character development.
Number there, the movie is actually shit from a cinematic point of view;
Tone, Eps 1-3 are very clearly space operas, like 5th Element or Chronicles of Riddick. They carry that tone. Eps 4-6 are insurgency movies, like Defiance in space, with a smattering of humor to break the tension.
Rogue one is brilliant and captures that tone perfectly, force awakens does a damn decent job of capturing that same tone too, even starts off a bit buddy cop before switching over into that insurgency tone.
What the even fuck was the last Jedi? It started on a gag phone call, that could have been handled 100 different ways to the same effect... And then the movie spoofs itself, this wasnt an Easter egg, the movie legitimately spoofed itself, the same way the wayan's brothers would spoof star wars, by the first xwing fighter dying being good ole KFC Porkins. And the movie never recovers for more than a few minutes at a time before losing it self again.
Story - disjointed, I think it was rewritten after Carrie fishers death honestly. They said she did all her lines but I doubt that's true. I get the feeling that there was supposed to be a traitor plot going on, it would make Finn packing up and sneaking away with reys tracker look more sinister, purple hair Captain would look traitorous with all her doing absolutely nothing and telling everyone nothing, then it could all be revealed at the end as some matter strategy because there was or they thought there was a traitor on board.
Suspense - there was none, every situation was solved with a Deus ex, every single time...

There really is no time to even begin contemplating the massive plot holes or sjw whatever when the whole foundation of the movie is this bad.

Considering rogue one is my absolutely favorite Star wars, what I consider the best Star wars movie ever made. To follow that up with this movie... Can we start a Kickstarter to get Lucas back his story? At least he respected the property.

[Snuffleupagus]

It is.

Vader spends the whole time with Luke trying to get Luke to join him. The Rule of Two says he can't do that, without killing Palpatine. Luke's very existence re-awakens an emotional bond outside of the Emperor, and gives Anakin something to fight for.

The entire point of that last battle, where the Emperor is standing over Luke cackling and zapping him, and Vader looks from Luke, to the Emperor, to Luke, and makes his choice.

Luke.

And he kills the Emperor.

That's the entire point of the finale. Luke couldn't beat the Emperor. His dad couldn't bear to see him suffer. So he killed the Emperor. And that earned him redemption, which is why he shows up with Ben and Yoda as Force Ghosts at the end, in his not-a-crippled-psycho form (whether the original actor, or the new Christiansen version).

So no, it isn't remotely headcanon. It's the major plot arc of Return of the Jedi.

ROTJ:

Emperor Palpatine: Patience, my friend. In time, he will seek *you* out, and when he does, you must bring him before me. He has grown strong. Only together can we turn him to the Dark Side of the Force.

The Emperor: Your hate has made you powerful. Now fulfill your destiny, take your father's place by my side.

Darth Vader: Indeed you are powerful as the emperor has foreseen.

Yoda: Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Luke... Luke... do not... do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor or suffer your father's fate you will. Luke, when gone am I... the last of the Jedi will you be. Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke. There is... another... Sky... walker.

Luke: You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force runs strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And... my sister has it. Yes. It's you, Leia.

ESB:

Emperor Palpatine: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.

Darth Vader: Luke, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.


The original trilogy implies very heavily that the Force is something that runs in families.

[PACOX]

The original trilogy implies very heavily that the Force is something that runs in families.

The Skywalkers are the exception, not the rule. Jedi's having been making babies for at least 1000 years. Wouldnt most of the Jedi come from force-sensitives if that was the case?

[Deleted]

Yeah I'm sure they're upset with the $1B it made before year end.

Wow is dead guys!


To be clear, I liked but did not love the movie. There are lots of things to pick at but I found the overall film to be enjoyable. I don't expect anything to live up to the magic of the original trilogy because what makes them special is more than just the movies themselves; it's a mix of variables that is likely impossible to reproduce.

And while I totally get that some people didn't like the movie, I struggle with the significant majority of complaints in this thread because they seem to be one of these:
* Conflicts with headcanon
* "OMG I see non-white people AND women, it's a SJW movie"
* Trying to treat space opera as hard sci-fi

All three are basically setting the movie up to never meet your expectations.

I never said any of those things. I will say that Disney's handling of the Star Wars franchise is a crock and laughable. I've written Disney Wars off now, indefinitely. Back to the George Lucas stuff for me, bye bye Disney.

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Got plenty of training in that 2nd movie though...unlike Rey....
Disney fanbois need to make excuses for her. The rest of us want answers that should have been present in this lame 2nd movie. Jumanji has a lot of good word-of-mouth going for it.
Last Jedi doesn't.

I'll tell you what word of mouth I've been spreading about The Last Jedi: Leia flying through space like Superwoman was just cringe cringe. Disney wars... now written off.

[Snuffleupagus]

The Skywalkers are the exception, not the rule. Jedi's having been making babies for at least 1000 years. Wouldnt most of the Jedi come from force-sensitives if that was the case?

And how are they they exception?

[tyrlaan]

I never said any of those things. I will say that Disney's handling of the Star Wars franchise is a crock and laughable. I've written Disney Wars off now, indefinitely. Back to the George Lucas stuff for me, bye bye Disney.

You said: "Disney may feel that sting after TLJ being out for only a short while." With regards to Jumanji doing well in the box office.

So yeah, that sure sounds like hoping TLJ is a failure or at least not a smashing success for Disney. And that's the common sour grapes approach when people decry how dead WoW is.

[Deleted]

You said: "Disney may feel that sting after TLJ being out for only a short while." With regards to Jumanji doing well in the box office.

So yeah, that sure sounds like hoping TLJ is a failure or at least not a smashing success for Disney. And that's the common sour grapes approach when people decry how dead WoW is.

But I play WoW one of the most diverse games in the universe. It doesn't have be about the SJW issue. And I was referring to the irony of the situation rather than wanting TLJ to fail, which it has done by its own momentum.

And leads me to a similar conclusion, Disney should let Star Wars go and sell it on.

[OrcsRLame]

There's women who aren't in metal bikinis.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...n-bechdel-test

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/sta...nist-feminism/

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture...nist-star-wars

@tyrlaan

Feminists seem to think it's a feminist film. Perhaps you should throw your snark at them instead of forum users that are just believing what the feminists are saying.

[PACOX]

And how are they they exception?

Because they're the lineage where you could possibly force abilities are hereditary. Other than the Skywalker's, Jedi dont have kids, therefore force abilities arent normally being passed to offspring.

[tyrlaan]

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...n-bechdel-test

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/sta...nist-feminism/

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture...nist-star-wars

@tyrlaan

Feminists seem to think it's a feminist film. Perhaps you should throw your snark at them instead of forum users that are just believing what the feminists are saying.

I'm not sure what your point is here...?

[Deleted]

Maybe you should stop making excuses for the lack of any explanations in the movie.
Skill are taught, not inborn. And taught skills always overcome any natural ones. (That's real life, not some cheap fantasy...)

This movie really sucked hard when it came to explaining anything.
And people need to stop making excuses and inventing nonsense to make it seem as if the events had any sense of logic to them.
Hell, just thown Rey at the Empire...she'll be able to handle it all by herself.

what skills do you think she showed that she just suddenly obtained? She can clearly fight, and we see her doing so, people will say "oh she had a staff not a sword"....well if you see me training with a staff, then I pick up a sword...perhaps I've also trained with that, its not unnatural to learn several weapons and skills transfer.

As for her ability with the force...we see her explicitly not knowing how to use it, failing several times....we see the journey.

What other skills are you talking about?

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It's right there in the movie quotes dude.

"You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force runs strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And... my sister has it. Yes. It's you, Leia. "

"Hmm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous. "

and the quote from Snoke about Kylo having the bloodline of Darth Vader.

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It really did feel like a ridiculous callback for no reason, maybe Disney had promised Lupita Nyong'o a spot in three movies so she got shoehorned in there. It's really strange how Poe comes up with the idea to call her out of nowhere when they had no interaction in the previous film.

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The tree scene was Yoda being a cheeky bastard and teaching Luke that he really didn't want the order to end. Yoda ignites the tree and Luke finally comes to this realization and attempts to rush in to save the texts.

Yoda wasn't saying that Rey already had the wisdom in those books. He was saying she literally had the contents of the library, which she had stolen before she left.

thats not what Yoda says at all> And she took nothing.....

He says there is nothing in the books that rey does not already know.

You need to stop making shit up.

[OrcsRLame]

I'm not sure what your point is here...?

You expressed skepticism at the idea that the TLJ has "sjw undertones", feminist and SJW are generally used as synonyms among anti-SJWs and ant-feminists. A lot of feminists think that TLJ is a feminist film. Therefore by the transitive property, SJWs think that TLJ is an SJW film. If SJWs and anti-SJWs both agree that the film has SJW undertones, then if not literally true it's probably at least a valid inference, as those two groups rarely tend to agree on anything ideological.

I figured all that would be obvious though.