[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Aurrora]

If he won that fight then i wouldve called BS after they spent half the movie establishing the power of Chewie's bowcaster.

You should have called BS anyways for him not to get knocked off that tiny, rail-less catwalk when we saw it bouncing stormtroopers 20 feet into the air.

[Nefarious Tea]

Holdo's outfit is ridiculous but to their point, the Rebellion/Resistance were never huge on outfits are true military rank & order. Thats one of the draws of the Empire/First Order, they are these huge military machines from costondian to admiral. The Rebels look like some insurgents you might see on CNN covering something out of the ME, they aren't loyal to military doctrine at all. The closest thing Rebels have to true uniforms are their fly suits, everything else is tactical gear they picked up at the galactic surplus store.

They didn't explain this at all in the film, but if you read the Bloodline novel, Amilyn Holdo is fuckin WEIRD. She is 250% the oddest of ducks so even if the Resistance had a formal military structure which required specific uniforms she probably would still have purple hair and that awful dress.

[Dextroden]

Ever hear of the force?

Obligatory That's not how the force works.

[Aurrora]

They didn't explain this at all in the film, but if you read the Bloodline novel, Amilyn Holdo is fuckin WEIRD. She is 250% the oddest of ducks so even if the Resistance had a formal military structure which required specific uniforms she probably would still have purple hair and that awful dress.

Leia, Princess of Alderaan. She wasn't in Bloodline.

[Aurrora]

It’s exactly how the force works. Or one way at least. He used it to stick himself to the catwalk.

Maybe someone should inform every other Jedi about this application of the force so they stop getting kicked off things.

[PACOX]

Maybe someone should inform every other Jedi about this application of the force so they stop getting kicked off things.

The Dark Side has all the cool powers in canon and Legends.

Making Anakin, prolonging life, cheating death (multiple times), holding the Force hostage, sticking to catwalks like spiderman, they can do it all.

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They didn't explain this at all in the film, but if you read the Bloodline novel, Amilyn Holdo is fuckin WEIRD. She is 250% the oddest of ducks so even if the Resistance had a formal military structure which required specific uniforms she probably would still have purple hair and that awful dress.

When the books have all the cool details.

[Jastall]

Come on man, that's weak. The Empire and First Order clearly show uniforms, there's no reason for the Republic (aka now Resistance) not to do the same.

The Emperor wore back pajamas and a hood. I can forgive the Fleet Admiral of a rag-tag army on the run wearing a gown.

[Dextroden]

The Emperor wore back pajamas and a hood. I can forgive the Fleet Admiral of a rag-tag army on the run wearing a gown.

Speaking of Emporer wear, is it weird that I sort of like Snoke and his smoking lounge robe?

[Fayolynn]

Snoke being a nobody -> The Emperor was literally a nobody until the 6th movie where he got a few longer lines and then promptly fall down a shaft, not until episode 1-3 did we get any ACTUAL info about who he was or why he did the things he did. Hell Vader was just as bad, just generic evil bad guy with no actual substance untill plot twist, he is Luke's father and come episode 6 he has some legit character development. But again Episode 1-3 is where we really get to understand Vader.

The Emperor existed in a vacuum, his existence while a mystery did not need to be explained. We knew he was the ruler of the empire which was an evil oppressive government. More was added later to flesh out his character but that was just extra, we didn't need to know more for his character to work. Snoke doesn't enjoy the same benefit nothing about what little story we got on him (which is even less then we had on Sidious) makes any sense. He saw the rise and fall of the Empire, but Sidious just ignored his existence for reasons even though another extremely strong force user would be a threat to him. Luke and Leia knew about Snoke and that he was corrupting Ben but did nothing to stop him. A mystery was built up and had zero pay off. The way they treated the character means they could introduce a new character in E9 name Kenos, a strong user of the Dark Side who takes control of the First Order from Kylo. Who is he? How did he get there? Doesn't matter because Sidious had no back story either!

Rey being a mary sue - > SERIOUSLY!? What the fuck isn't Luke but a male Rey, it gets even worse in the expanded universe. In fact people are whining their asses off that Luke WASNT a mary sue in the film, because from what people wanted him to do, that is what he would've been.

Luke is far from a male Rey.

Luke does exactly one thing decently in E4, he pilots an X-wing decently and stays alive long enough to blow up the Death Star. To add to that he was constantly being rescued by the rest of the cast. Obi-Wan saves him from Sand People after he goes searching for R2, he has lived on Tatooine all his life and knows the threat they pose but is still taken by surprise. Luke is saved again by Obi-Wan at the Cantina when he pissed of Ponda Baba. Once on the Death Star he almost gets the entire group killed attempting to rescue the princess, they only survive due to the Leia's quick thinking and then C-3P0 and R2-D2 intervention. Then during the attack on the Death Star he manages to almost crash himself into the surface, almost got shot down by lone tie fighter but was saved by Wedge and then almost got shot down by Vader but was saved by Han. Then to top it all off he only made the shot by having Obi-Wan reach out and remind him from beyond the grave to use the force to guide his actions. Compare that to Rey in E7 who ended up doing the majority of the saving to the point that the movie cracked a joke about it when she rescued herself on Starkiller Base.

Skillwise Luke is a decent pilot, can perform maintenance on droids and during E4 learns how to sense the right time to act when focusing on that 1 action and nothing else with the guidance of a Jedi Master. Comparatively Rey is a decent pilot, multilingual, proficient in self defense, excellent at star ship repair, resourceful, and during the course of the movie learns how to do the Jedi mind trick and force pull on her own. If you had compared her to Anakin you would have been right, but Luke... not even close to the same.

People wanted Luke to be a "Mary Sue" because after seeing what Rey did after 3 days of using the force they wanted to see what he was capable of.

[Mormolyce]

Fun fact: Luke never receives any lightsaber combat training on screen in the original trilogy. Ben gives him a primer on blast deflection with a remote and Yoda only teaches him the spiritual and telekinetic aspects of the Force (which he struggles with and fails to master before leaving). For all we know he's completely untrained in it when he goes to face Vader in ESB, and in Jedi Yoda tells him his training is somehow now complete (despite the fact he didn't want him to face Vader in ESB and rather complete his training), so there's nothing further before the final battle in the throne room.

But still, I would've liked to see a proper training montage in TLJ, or at least the implication that Rey got more training offscreen.

[Fayolynn]

This is where show, don't tell comes in heavily. I know it's hard to understand if it's not spelled out but if you watch New Hope, Tarkin is clearly ordering Vader around and he obeys without question.

It's funny you talk about show don't tell but failed to see what that scene was showing you. Admiral Motti started trash talked the force and Vader chokes him out. By the time Tarkin yells for Vader to spare the life of one of his officers Vader has already prove his point and so respects Tarkin's "demand". The whole point of that scene is to illustrate how far below Vader the non force users are, there was literally nothing Tarkin could have done if Vader didn't choose to stop. Tarkin may be in charge of the military operation of the Death Star itself but he is not Vader's boss.

[Speaknoevil]

I thought it was great. I also think all of you whining about the movie being as diverse as real life come off as racist and complaining about a woman doing something cool is sexist.

Now for my complaint. Finn is not the least bit believable as a character, no former Stormtrooper would be so flamboyant in their behavior.

[Mormolyce]

Tarkin is senior to Vader on the Death Star.

The character of Darth Vader grew in importance over the series - in Star Wars he's Tarkin's Dragon as TVTropes would put it, in ESB and Jedi he's in sole command of Imperial navy forces, by the time Lucas was writing the prequel trilogies he's some kind of weird immaculately conceived evil god of the Force. This kind of thing happens a lot when a villain hits it off well with the audience.

[Aurrora]

Fun fact: Luke never receives any lightsaber combat training on screen in the original trilogy. Ben gives him a primer on blast deflection with a remote and Yoda only teaches him the spiritual and telekinetic aspects of the Force (which he struggles with and fails to master before leaving). For all we know he's completely untrained in it when he goes to face Vader in ESB, and in Jedi Yoda tells him his training is somehow now complete (despite the fact he didn't want him to face Vader in ESB and rather complete his training), so there's nothing further before the final battle in the throne room.

But still, I would've liked to see a proper training montage in TLJ, or at least the implication that Rey got more training offscreen.

There's a bit where Yoda teaches him to use his lightsaber but it wound up on the cutting room floor because it looked so bad, the scene remains in the novelizations though.

[Mormolyce]

There's a bit where Yoda teaches him to use his lightsaber but it wound up on the cutting room floor because it looked so bad, the scene remains in the novelizations though.

Neat, I didn't know about that scene. Is there an exerpt from the novelisation anywhere?

It still doesn't count as lightsaber combat training though.

[Aurrora]

Neat, I didn't know about that scene. Is there an exerpt from the novelisation anywhere?

It still doesn't count as lightsaber combat training though.

Just wait for the extra special edition for the 50th anniversary, Yoda will pull out his lightsaber and fight a digitally recreated 28 year old Mark Hamill à la episode II.

Unfortunately my copy of the OT novelization is packed away in a box somewhere otherwise I'd transcribe the scene.

[Mormolyce]

The deflection training would qualify as lightsaber combat training.

But it teaches you nothing about how to fight versus a lightsaber wielding opponent.

At best he got a five minute intro to Form I, but only the blast deflection components.

[Snuffleupagus]

Snoke being a nobody -> The Emperor was literally a nobody untill the 6th movie where he got a few longer lines and then promptly fall down a shaft, not untill episode 1-3 did we get any ACTUAL info about who he was or why he did the things he did. Hell Vader was just as bad, just generic evil badguy with no actual substance untill plottwist, he is lukes father and come epsidoe 6 he has some legit character development. But again Episode 1-3 is where we really get to understand vader.

The Emperor was a looming threat until Episode 6, which is very different to how Snoke was portrayed.

Rey being a mary sue - > SERIOUSLY!? What the fuck isnt Luke but a male Rey, it gets even worse in the expanded universe. In fact people are whining their asses off that Luke WASNT a mary sue in the film, because from what people wanted him to do, that is what he would've been.

As someone else mentioned, Luke failed a lot and needed people to either help him out or spare his life in order to grow. Rey has not had this growth and enters the movie fully capable of wiping out the bad guys.

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I assume people underestimate Kylo because of his man-childishness - specifically, the temper tantrums. I've always seen it of a interestingly different take on the emotions that drive the dark side.

People complained about that man-childishness in the first movie, but quite frankly he is the most interesting character in the movies and Driver did a stellar job portraying him.

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They didn't explain this at all in the film, but if you read the Bloodline novel, Amilyn Holdo is fuckin WEIRD. She is 250% the oddest of ducks so even if the Resistance had a formal military structure which required specific uniforms she probably would still have purple hair and that awful dress.

You shouldn't have to read additional material for a movie to be consistent or make sense.

That's bad storytelling.

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The Emperor wore back pajamas and a hood. I can forgive the Fleet Admiral of a rag-tag army on the run wearing a gown.

And Snoke dressed in a pimp robe. I have no issue with that, considering they are the respectively the leaders of their organisations.

The Resistance was evacuating their base when the story started, there's no reason for her to be wearing a formal dress, especially when you look at how literally everyone else is dressed. Even Leia was not as extravagant.

[Tackhisis]

Is there an exerpt from the novelisation anywhere?

Here you go.

...Yoda had yet another test planned for him.

Before Luke had caught his breath, the little Jedi on his back tossed a metal bar in front of Luke’s eyes. In an instant Luke ignited his laser sword and swung frantically at the bar. But he was not fast enough, and the bar fell—untouched—onto the ground with a thud. Luke collapsed on the wet earth in complete exhaustion. “I can’t,” he moaned, “…too tired.”

Yoda, who showed no sign of sympathy, retorted, “It would be in seven pieces, were you a Jedi.” (Donald F. Glut)

[Mormolyce]

Here you go.

Ooh, thanks.