Balance nerf....Wax and Wane

[joltcola1234]

Not anymore, you gotta use your other abilities now. Not just Moonfire.

You aren't even making sense.

Try a bit harder.

[Kyanion]

You aren't even making sense.

Try a bit harder.

This thread got derailed by a couple clueless people. Thankfully the discord is a much better discussion place.

[muto]

You aren't even making sense.

Try a bit harder.

Right. I forgot Starfall and Sunfire sorry. 3 abilities are 80% of the top parsing Moonkins damage on High Command. Blizzard straight up said it was causing other abilities to be abandoned and they don’t want that. Moonfire being as strong as it was with Wax and Wane was never intended. You guys will be fine. You just have to do a bit more work to AoE efficiently now.

[Zan15]

This thread got derailed by a couple clueless people. Thankfully the discord is a much better discussion place.

lol you mean where they will kick you if you don't agree with how they want to "discuss" things. :P

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The damage nerf itself isn't what bothers me, it's the fact that we've been warning them this shit was going to happen with Wax and Wane before the trait was even on live servers. It was either going to be completely insignificant or had to be buffed to the point of overtaking unempowered SW/LS as a filler (which in the big picture doesn't matter much as they both do pitiful dmg when they don't scale with mastery). Then they release a terrible T21 4p that only works for AOE (which you could've fixed simply by adding LS & SW to it), and once again ignore all the feedback regarding the issues it has. Instead they decide to nerf our T20p which was the only thing keeping us viable on ST, putting us dead last on single target. Okay, I can live with that, I can still be useful on the 5 out of 11 bosses that aren't single target and luckily there is a lot of 3 tank or 5 heal encounters. But then they post this shit, which just makes me want to never give them any feedback ever again:

Geeze sounds so doomsday-ish.....

[Kyanion]

lol you mean where they will kick you if you don't agree with how they want to "discuss" things. :P

Well yeah the moderation over there in the discord is a freaking joke. I tend to avoid the place, but it doesn't get derailed by warlocks whining like they have in this thread and the official thread that posted the upcoming changes.

[Zan15]

Since when is spamming a single button mindlessly (for the most part) considered fun and engaging gameplay?

Not as big of a nerf as you think. It's not a significant decrease if you press Solar Wrath or Lunar Strike instead. As for movement DPS, you should make use of Stellar Drift.

Have fun.

guess on transitions on fights like council you just need to drop 3 or 4 starfalls from one pod to the next while you are moving.
should not be too hard, while dodging mines.

Dropping those starfalls on the first boss will help too while moving out and running to soak


etc etc etc

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Well yeah the moderation over there in the discord is a freaking joke. I tend to avoid the place, but it doesn't get derailed by warlocks whining like they have in this thread and the official thread that posted the upcoming changes.

bah they just know its coming....real soon....the dooooom

[Aylenn]

Right. I forgot Starfall and Sunfire sorry. 3 abilities are 80% of the top parsing Moonkins damage on High Command. Blizzard straight up said it was causing other abilities to be abandoned and they don’t want that. Moonfire being as strong as it was with Wax and Wane was never intended. You guys will be fine. You just have to do a bit more work to AoE efficiently now.

There's nothing I love more than somebody with 0 knowledge of a class blabbing about a brief reading of a dps meter. First of all, as a warlock, which we all know you are, I'd suggest keeping quiet and your head down since currently affliction has the FEWEST actions and the highest dps class in the game, it doesn't suffer loss on ST, AOE or cleave and even has better answers for movement than most classes.

Yes, most of a boomkin's dmg comes from a couple of abilities and most of our time is spent casting others to min/max our resource generation among other things. This makes our dps worse on ST fights with movement, anything not Vari basically and hurts our AOE a bit no matter if you were playing the meme build or not. I don't prefer the meme build myself but even not using it you'll see a loss and for what? So that blizzard feels better about what buttons we push? A balance change needs to happen.

Also, if we're looking to nerf classes that use 1 ability for all their damage...

Hunters
Warlocks
Mages
Spriest

among most others need a look at as well since this is the game blizzard has turned WoW into over the last few years for those who don't know other classes. Most classes these days are in the category of weak generators and strong spenders but some are still far more versatile and overall stronger which needs to be brought into balance at some point.

[Polarthief]

Right. I forgot Starfall and Sunfire sorry. 3 abilities are 80% of the top parsing Moonkins damage on High Command. Blizzard straight up said it was causing other abilities to be abandoned and they don’t want that. Moonfire being as strong as it was with Wax and Wane was never intended. You guys will be fine. You just have to do a bit more work to AoE efficiently now.

Since we're not counting the 30s+ cooldowns/alike buttons, Affliction (AFAIK with my limited knowledge) is 2 DoTs (Corruption and Agony), a filler (Drain Soul), and a Shard Spender (Unstable Affliction; SoC if AoEing). 1 DoT if you go Absolute Corruption. Press the artifact ability every so often (way less often than Balance's).

Yes the Balance rotation is easy and simple but it doesn't mean it doesn't have enough buttons.

All the following buttons are used and have a CD less than 30s (only Moon spells have a CD and it's a 15s recharge):
- Solar Wrath: Spammed to generate AsP.
- Lunar Strike: Used if empowered (1 empowerment per Starsurge), or if Owlkin Frenzy procs (only procs when single-attacked).
- Moonfire: Used and kept up on all targets. Cast once per every 1-2 targets.
- Sunfire: Used and kept up on all targets. Cast once per pack.
- Moon Spells: Used to generate AsP on a short (15s) recharge.
- Starsurge: Used to spend AsP on a single-target attack.
- Starfall: Used to spend AsP on an AoE attack.

Fights with both ST and AoE (or if using the bracers) will see themselves using every single button. If not AoEing, you likely won't Starfall (will with Bracers or heavy movement), and if there's never a single target to attack, you won't ever Starsurge or Lunar Strike (unless using the Bracers). Either way, you're still casting at MINIMUM 5 buttons on a rotation, but more than likely 7. Way more to be said than other classes.

[Deleted]

There's nothing I love more than somebody with 0 knowledge of a class blabbing about a brief reading of a dps meter. First of all, as a warlock, which we all know you are, I'd suggest keeping quiet and your head down since currently affliction has the FEWEST actions and the highest dps class in the game, it doesn't suffer loss on ST, AOE or cleave and even has better answers for movement than most classes.

Yes, most of a boomkin's dmg comes from a couple of abilities and most of our time is spent casting others to min/max our resource generation among other things. This makes our dps worse on ST fights with movement, anything not Vari basically and hurts our AOE a bit no matter if you were playing the meme build or not. I don't prefer the meme build myself but even not using it you'll see a loss and for what? So that blizzard feels better about what buttons we push? A balance change needs to happen.

Also, if we're looking to nerf classes that use 1 ability for all their damage...

Hunters
Warlocks
Mages
Spriest

among most others need a look at as well since this is the game blizzard has turned WoW into over the last few years for those who don't know other classes. Most classes these days are in the category of weak generators and strong spenders but some are still far more versatile and overall stronger which needs to be brought into balance at some point.

you do know this changes drastically when theres adds ? and im not talking about Seed spamming

[Deleted]

Also, if we're looking to nerf classes that use 1 ability for all their damage...

Spriest

What? Put that thing you're smoking down please

[Aylenn]

you do know this changes drastically when theres adds ? and im not talking about Seed spamming

Yes, I also have mained aff lock recently so I’m aware you spam gcds putting up dots and manage them, it feels very similar to boomkin in that respect, dot all the things and manage all the dots. The thing is for the most part the aff lock gets resource from dot ticks which the Druid had to generate with very weak generators or spam moonfire a bit, in both cases doing more than an afflock.

The gripe isn’t that they nerfed a meme spec, even though boomie is 1 giant meme in many ways, literally and with our talent tree this xpac lol. The complaint is like gebuz outlines, we warned about a foreseen problem, they ignored, made it worse with our new set and gave us a tier that 4 of the 5 hardest fights are single target so all were good for is aoe and being very strong on the most difficult multi target fight. Now we’ve lost quality of life big time, a decent bit of dps in multi target, boomies that didn’t play meme would often spread moonfire via spamming a priority target which is now nerfed and there’s no compensation. There needs to be a legit balance change after this and we all know it’s not coming until far too late so I’ll be finishing this xpac on my lock most likely if at all.

Locking people into specs with legendaries and artifact power should lead to better balancing and instead it seems to have only resulted in upset players.

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What? Put that thing you're smoking down please

So how was the comparison wrong? Balance has moonfire, sunfire and starfall with some passive procs. Spriest have vt, swp, void bolt with procs. Same number of spells that account for the vast majority of the dps on a cleave fight which was the conversation and point.

For reference top spriest logs on ahc.

[Deleted]

Druid
Balance
Wax and Wane (Artifact trait) damage bonus per stack reduced to 6% (was 25%).
Lunar Strike damage increased by 8%.
Solar Wrath damage increased by 8%.

Am I the only one who does not understand the point of nerfing Wax and Wane that hard ? ?
I can see it being nerfed a bit, but damn... I don't get blizzard that want to nerf our dps while moving that much.

http://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=20760727924

Its typical blizzard´s overkill solution, "knee jerk" describes it the best I would say...I wasnt aware moonfire spam was an issue, maybe few months ago but now? Also how is this going to affect PvP? Dots already tick for some 15k in instanced PvP (on 5+mil. hp targets...), only reason to cast them is for 6% damage buff (which is artifically delayed by some 6-8 seconds for no reason as well). SW/LS 8% buff does nothing.

Genuine question for anyone who is not pushing mythic progression. Does it really hit everyone that hard? I'm not a moonkin player by so I'd like to have that stated first and foremost. It really is just, it's the last tier and most of us gonna be chilling after clearing Antorus for a while, or running m+. What then? There's no tier 22 raid or something like that AFAIk ..? So, does it really matter that much?

In case my question didn't get clear, it's not directed to someone if you're on a mythic progression team and the changes are affecting you . But to the rest of us who clears heroic just fine as balance, is it that big of a deal?

Well it hurts movement phases alot, its one of the few disctintions between good and bad players to use it properly. Also sucks for world content, I already switched to faceroll easy to play feral. I cant be arsed to cast stupid boring spells for X seconds when I can nuke it down as cat with 0 downtime.

The damage nerf itself isn't what bothers me, it's the fact that we've been warning them this shit was going to happen with Wax and Wane before the trait was even on live servers. It was either going to be completely insignificant or had to be buffed to the point of overtaking unempowered SW/LS as a filler (which in the big picture doesn't matter much as they both do pitiful dmg when they don't scale with mastery). Then they release a terrible T21 4p that only works for AOE (which you could've fixed simply by adding LS & SW to it), and once again ignore all the feedback regarding the issues it has. Instead they decide to nerf our T20p which was the only thing keeping us viable on ST, putting us dead last on single target. Okay, I can live with that, I can still be useful on the 5 out of 11 bosses that aren't single target and luckily there is a lot of 3 tank or 5 heal encounters. But then they post this shit, which just makes me want to never give them any feedback ever again:

I dont know why are you surprised. Moonkin playstyle has been clunky since Legion´s launch. SW and LS behave basically the same, so do moonfire and sunfire. Glaring survivability issues since day 1 as well. Unnecessary armor nerf...I dont understand this anymore. We can safely say that no dev plays balance druid after all legion´s changes to this spec.

[Zan15]

Right. I forgot Starfall and Sunfire sorry. 3 abilities are 80% of the top parsing Moonkins damage on High Command. Blizzard straight up said it was causing other abilities to be abandoned and they don’t want that. Moonfire being as strong as it was with Wax and Wane was never intended. You guys will be fine. You just have to do a bit more work to AoE efficiently now.

i would love for you to show me ANY parce where these 3 are not and will not be top 3 on High command....no matter the rotation, spec, lego's...etc etc etc


if you have anything else in the top 3, you are downright broken.


have you ever even played this spec?

[Moshots]

I don't mind the nerf to fix the gameplay but the buffs to ST should have been far more substantial than an 8% buff to fillers.

Why? you lost no single target....

Or is it fun seeing guilds doing M coven with 5-6 moonkin alts because the rotation on coven is literally moon moon moon starfall moonfire x6 starfall moonfire x6 starfall moon moon moonfire x3 starfall...

For basically the whole fight outside targeting adds.... and you do more damage on alts that most mains.


Not to mention high M+ has become 2x Moonkin+x.....

[Myztikrice]

Why? you lost no single target....

Or is it fun seeing guilds doing M coven with 5-6 moonkin alts because the rotation on coven is literally moon moon moon starfall moonfire x6 starfall moonfire x6 starfall moon moon moonfire x3 starfall...

For basically the whole fight outside targeting adds.... and you do more damage on alts that most mains.


Not to mention high M+ has become 2x Moonkin+x.....

Because Moonkin ST isn't that great and Blizzard nerfed one of the things Moonkins are good at. They wanted more compensation in another area for losing it in another.

And no one is talking about M+

[Aylenn]

Why? you lost no single target....

Or is it fun seeing guilds doing M coven with 5-6 moonkin alts because the rotation on coven is literally moon moon moon starfall moonfire x6 starfall moonfire x6 starfall moon moon moonfire x3 starfall...

For basically the whole fight outside targeting adds.... and you do more damage on alts that most mains.


Not to mention high M+ has become 2x Moonkin+x.....

Literally no decent boomie is defending memefire or upset cuz memefire is dead. People are only bothered by the fact that his nerf negatively impacts other areas of the spec's gameplay. Like making the 1 thing we were good at worse and putting us even further behind in ST that has movement which we're already terrible at. People just want some love for boomie in the ST department or to make the aoe/cleaving matter. In NH most fights needed and used our aoe & cleaving capabilities and same with ToS. In Antorus there are fewer aoe fights and except for Coven, they are much less meaningful and in any other xpac killing a spec for a tier would be fine, but in an xpac where you invest serious time in AP and Legendary farming as well as relics it just doesn't seem to fit.

[Deleted]

Does someone know if logs will get reset for boomies after this patch?

[gobio]

The hyperbole in this thread has snowball into something so big that somebody said some random other 4 classes "do ALL of their damage" with "ONE ability".
This thread is about fact or is it some kind of metaphoric art?

EDIT : spamming moonfire actually killed children in Africa, why Blizz allows that? WTF!

[Deleted]

So how was the comparison wrong? Balance has moonfire, sunfire and starfall with some passive procs. Spriest have vt, swp, void bolt with procs. Same number of spells that account for the vast majority of the dps on a cleave fight which was the conversation and point.

For reference top spriest logs on ahc.

You said "1 ability" and now you list 3, conveniently forgetting Mind Blast. As as sidenote, you really don't want to start comparing numbers of skills shadow priest has to use in comparison to balance druid.

[markos82]

Right. I forgot Starfall and Sunfire sorry. 3 abilities are 80% of the top parsing Moonkins damage on High Command. Blizzard straight up said it was causing other abilities to be abandoned and they don’t want that. Moonfire being as strong as it was with Wax and Wane was never intended. You guys will be fine. You just have to do a bit more work to AoE efficiently now.

You do realize thats an AOE fight? If you have a problem to grasp that, then you are not really smart. Also if blizzard didnt made it like that there wont be a need to use AOE spells...