Why High Elves are no longer needed to, shouldn't, and NEVER will be an allied race

[Obelisk Kai]

In your subjective opinion its headcannon, in reality we have Vereesa's faction and an actual number which is contested as being between 1,440 and 8000. Roughly, y'know, what the darkspear pop was.

No, it really isn't subjective at all. Every primary source on this matter is consistent, the High Elves (non Horde) are a nearly extinct grouping that can't even be compared to other 'endangered' groups.

What's funnier is you think Vereesa magically finding AN INCREDIBLY SMALL population of 'void elves' - that are essentially high elves in everything but name - is perfectly viable but not high elves? Its an absolute asspull to keep people like you from whinging your guts out.

High Elves in everything but name. And the tentacles. As for the Void Elves the only conclusion is that the High Elf (non Horde) population is even smaller than that.

And the same was brought up numerous times other about other races whether it was the forsaken, darkspear trolls, gnomes, tauren or even classes like night elf female druids. Your entire argument hinges on a decision made from a business perspective to balance players in the faction pop.

It has been pointed out now on multiple occasions that comparing High Elves (non Horde) to other endangered groups is not a winning argument. As stated, if you think those groups are endangered, High Elves (non Horde) are far worse off. In fact, the Blood Elf population is also regarded as endangered and it is equivalent to those endangered races. And everyone knows there are far more Blood Elves than High Elves (non Horde).

So why do you keep using a counter point that has already been refuted?

[NuLogic]

They did. They added Blood Elves and it was a big component for the hype for TBC back in the day.

Can't hype the same thing twice.

And Blizzard never came out and said we are never adding Demon Hunters. They've pretty much said that on playable Alliance High Elves.

Why can't you hype it more than once? They're adding more elves, more trolls and more dwarfs.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

And thats is exactly what they will do

High elves only existed to be Blood elf antagonists, they have nothing on their own, with Void elves now, they will just vanish and be replaced;

With luck the elf dying besides sylvanas in teldrassil is Veressa and this whole silver covenant bullshit can go to hell

Sure, yet until they do, we will keep having these anti/pro high elf threads. Over and Over again.

So please, if you personally can move up Blizzard's announcement that "high elves will never be playable", please by all means, get on that.

[TheEaterofSouls]

people are way too obsessed with high elves. void elves and blood elves are literally high elves. Blood elves only have differences in eye color. void elves are different enough and yet tied strongly to high elves.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I am not obfuscating meaning. High Elves are playable. And while there is a divide caused by a factional split, the vast, vast majority of the race are on the Horde.

I see no need to give a skein of respectability to this idea of some epic political conflict between the two groups because that implies equivalence. The Blood Elves possesses the lands of Quel'thalas (covering three zones), the Elven Fleet, the Farstriders, the city of Silvermoon, the actual Sunwell, the civilian population, the magisters and the army.

The High Elves of Dalaran have a few rooms in Dalaran. They don't even have their own quarter anymore.

It's like saying the battle for the American left is a no holds barred battle between the Democratic party and the communist party USA. Hardly equivalent groups in terms of impact or influence.

*endless sigh* Can I even ask where did you get the idea that the blood elf/high elf conflict needs some sort of equivalence in terms of resources/people/influence? Can I totally blow your socks off with the idea of a far less populous group going against the one more populous that holds the power? Have you seen this little thing called Star Wars.

INB4 I'm calling the blood elves the empire/the first order; the point is, history and fiction is LOUSY with tales of small groups going against larger opposing groups who are in power/control, either as good or bad guys, or neither.

I'm think I'm adding this to the list of the worst arguments you have tried to make, dear lord.

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people are way too obsessed with high elves. void elves and blood elves are literally high elves. Blood elves only have differences in eye color. void elves are different enough and yet tied strongly to high elves.

Allow me some honesty; do you really think no one has ever came with this point before? Regardless of your point being wrong by nature of what blood and high elves are in political stance/background, what is your opinion trying to accomplish here?

By all means I'm not policing what you are allowed to post, but I think we should all be aware at this point on the discussion (this endless, endless discussion) that the time for hot takes is long past and pointless.

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It has been pointed out now on multiple occasions that comparing High Elves to other endangered groups is not a winning argument. As stated, if you think those groups are endangered, High Elves are far worse off. In fact, the Blood Elf population is also regarded as endangered and it is equivalent to those endangered races. And everyone knows there are far more Blood Elves than High Elves.

So why do you keep using a counter point that has already been refuted?

Mmm, could you please point out all those IN-GAME sources that clearly present the high elven population as too small to be viable? In what aspect of how high elves are portrayed in game are we, as players, led to believe they are just too few to ever be a playable race?

And yet again, how does that argument stack against the existence as void elves as a playable race?

[Fyersing]

No, it really isn't subjective at all. Every primary source on this matter is consistent, the High Elves (non Horde) are a nearly extinct grouping that can't even be compared to other 'endangered' groups.

It's consistently stated, but it isn't really consistently depicted.

If you manually count NPC's, there are almost more High Elf NPC's peppered throughout the gamespace than any other single race (on the Alliance). This, of course, excepting those groups which control enormous swaths of land in any of the continents (i.e. Humans, Dwarves, Night Elves and probably Draenei following WoD). The point being that Blizzard has really kept this discussion/argument alive through their constant need to dangle the carrot.

High Elves in everything but name. And the tentacles. As for the Void Elves the only conclusion is that the High Elf (non Horde) population is even smaller than that.

The first point is absolutely agreeable, whereas the second is going to be a matter of perception (as mentioned above).

It doesn't really matter to the average player if Blizzard releases a statement that says, "there are only 50 High Elves, but there are 500 Void Elves", if what we end up seeing in-game is 500 High Elves (NPC's) and 50 Void Elves (NPC's). The way things are depicted, in-game, don't have to perfectly reflect the narrative reality... but they should probably at least attempt as much, lest they sort of encourage players who aren't intimately familiar with the in-universe circumstances to make inferences which are fundamentally flawed.

Which is exactly why the issue of "playable High Elves" has been so persistent. They decided to keep the group relevant, for reasons known only to them, and because of this your typical player often wonders why they're front-and-center for the Alliance, but unplayable. The fact that their numbers are limited, in-universe, doesn't even enter into the mind of virtually all people who see Silver Covenant NPC's representing the Alliance and think, "wow, I wish we could play these".

EDIT: As was mentioned, the implementation of Void Elves is a sort of concession in this regard. The only issue that I, personally, have with their current iteration is that it's something that pleases neither the group who self-defines as being fanatical about High Elves nor the crowd who identifies as being entirely behind the Blood Elves. A lose-lose, from a narrative perspective.

[corebit]

Mmm, could you please point out all those IN-GAME sources that clearly present the high elven population as too small to be viable? In what aspect of how high elves are portrayed in game are we, as players, led to believe they are just too few to ever be a playable race?

Blizzard already confirmed it. And that trumps anything in-game.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Blizzard already confirmed it. And that trumps anything in-game.

And some people would say that anything in game triumphs any other source, even official lore from supplemental sources, such as how chronicle has already been contradicted by the game. And this is not even counting all the times Blizzard has retconed, changed their mind or contradicted what they say.

What constitutes canon, and canon heriarchy by themselves are matters up to discussion, yet you believe your "hot take" is all we need to solve this issue.

People like you can whine all you want saying how high elves won't happen, yet unless blizzard categorically, and explicitly states that High Elves are an impossibility, and gives in game irrefutable lore reasons for it, people that want high elves won't stop asking about them.

And that's the hill they are willing to die in; are you?

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It's consistently stated, but it isn't really consistently depicted.

If you manually count NPC's, there are almost more High Elf NPC's peppered throughout the gamespace than any other single race (on the Alliance). This, of course, excepting those groups which control enormous swaths of land in any of the continents (i.e. Humans, Dwarves, Night Elves and probably Draenei following WoD). The point being that Blizzard has really kept this discussion/argument alive through their constant need to dangle the carrot.



The first point is absolutely agreeable, whereas the second is going to be a matter of perception (as mentioned above).

It doesn't really matter to the average player if Blizzard releases a statement that says, "there are only 50 High Elves, but there are 500 Void Elves", if what we end up seeing in-game is 500 High Elves (NPC's) and 50 Void Elves (NPC's). The way things are depicted, in-game, don't have to perfectly reflect the narrative reality... but they should probably at least attempt as much, lest they sort of encourage players who aren't intimately familiar with the in-universe circumstances to make inferences which are fundamentally flawed.

Which is exactly why the issue of "playable High Elves" has been so persistent. They decided to keep the group relevant, for reasons known only to them, and because of this your typical player often wonders why they're front-and-center for the Alliance, but unplayable. The fact that their numbers are limited, in-universe, doesn't even enter into the mind of virtually all people who see Silver Covenant NPC's representing the Alliance and think, "wow, I wish we could play these".

EDIT: As was mentioned, the implementation of Void Elves is a sort of concession in this regard. The only issue that I, personally, have with their current iteration is that it's something that pleases neither the group who self-defines as being fanatical about High Elves nor the crowd who identifies as being entirely behind the Blood Elves. A lose-lose, from a narrative perspective.

Basically this whole point. The "reality" of how high elves are un viable as a playable race is thoroughly not reflected by their in game presence. The game is the main and most important and superseding source of lore, and there is nothing on it that supports the idea that high elves are a dying people, unviable or unfit to be playable. Not only in terms of depiction through sheer numbers, but the lack of statements, in game, about any notions of high elves being unviable as a people.

The fact that we are getting Void Elves, who are highly unlikely to surpass high elven populations in terms of depiction in game, only serves to further dismiss the argument of population as a whole.

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High Elves in everything but name. And the tentacles. As for the Void Elves the only conclusion is that the High Elf (non Horde) population is even smaller than that.

This is such a fallacious argument, and I can't be sure if it's purposefully so. "Low population" is not the reason why high elves aren't playable, is one of the justifications for it, and one that we have seen revealed as faulty several times now, with blizzard moving the goalpost of population being an issue with both playable pandaren and void elves.

According in game depictions; the amount of high elves vastly overpowers the amount of tushuii/huojin, and will most certainly overpower the void elf representation. Continuing to cling to the faulty population argument even in obvious light of how new races have been added in game in disregard to it makes it obvious you are not in here to elucidate any truth, only to justify your own subjective dislike of high elves.

Stop the pretense about caring about the lore and what is possible/likely and admit this whole things of yours is utterly about your own bias against high elves

[corebit]

And some people would say that anything in game triumphs any other source, even official lore from supplemental sources, such as how chronicle has already been contradicted by the game. And this is not even counting all the times Blizzard has retconed, changed their mind or contradicted what they say.

What constitutes canon, and canon heriarchy by themselves are matters up to discussion, yet you believe your "hot take" is all we need to solve this issue.

People like you can whine all you want saying how high elves won't happen, yet unless blizzard categorically, and explicitly states that High Elves are an impossibility, and gives in game irrefutable lore reasons for it, people that want high elves won't stop asking about them.

And that's the hill they are willing to die in; are you?

Umm...first off, you high elf fanatics are the ones whining and stomping your feet you aren't getting your precious race lol. So get the facts right OK?

Second, you are welcome to keep shouting and posting till you're blue in the face, but Blizzard is not going to waste time denying every single pathetic demand for clarification on the forums. You can certainly delude yourself thinking you have some kind of massive movement behind you that will force Blizzard to do your bidding.

The void elves are as close to playable high elves as you will ever get. So you'll just have to deal with it.

[The Man in Room V]

The more they resist, the more intense the call for them to be added.

[Deleted]

It has been pointed out now on multiple occasions that comparing High Elves (non Horde) to other endangered groups is not a winning argument. As stated, if you think those groups are endangered, High Elves (non Horde) are far worse off. In fact, the Blood Elf population is also regarded as endangered and it is equivalent to those endangered races. And everyone knows there are far more Blood Elves than High Elves (non Horde).

So why do you keep using a counter point that has already been refuted?

Err, because it hasn't and you know you're being almost entirely fallacious as the others have pointed out?

[MikeBogina]

I think one thing a lot of people aren't getting is, all the allied races have 2 things coming. The hero/champion and the npcs. All 3 horde races are new, so we have new heroes to pop up! The Dark Iron's and the lightforged are also new, so new heroes to emerge!... but then there's the high elf(im using high elf to regard the entire race including blood elves)... the high elves in the alliance have been there for years, not playable, but nothing new. How would you explain a bunch of new heroes emerging from that? So then there's the Blood Elf defectors, but they too are already apart of the horde and how would you explain sudden heroes emerging?

Easy!, something happened to them, they changed and became void elves and now nobodies are becoming somebodies! However, i personally believe that Alleria should have found high elves in the alliance struggling with addiction and helped them, then it being blood elves.


So to put it like this, the High Elves of the Alliance are a bunch of weakling fodder and there's no explainable way to have heroes all of a sudden start popping up.

[Ningjinq]

I personally enjoy for once having a fantasy setting where the normal Elves aren’t allied with the Humans anddae allied with Orcs and Undead instead.

If you want to play an Elf, Orcs and Huts are your allies. Enjoy.

[Obelisk Kai]

Err, because it hasn't and you know you're being almost entirely fallacious as the others have pointed out?

'Date: 29 September 2005 WoW Forums Post by Caydiem

There are still some High Elves in the land, but the majority of those once known as the Quel'dorei no longer fit the bill of "High Elf".

Your comparison with Gnomeregan is a logical conclusion to draw, but incorrect. The Gnomes managed to evacuate a good percentage of their people from their home as it was corrupted from within. Ironforge was close by; they were able to save a good number of their people. Naturally they were indebted to the
Dwarves and, by extension, the Alliance, so they fight for their cause.

The High Elves had less of a chance to flee, as they were surrounded by the vast bulk of the Scourge army as they pressed in and destroyed the Sunwell. Still, some survived, certainly enough to show a presence, right?

And so they did after the destruction of Quel'thalas, fighting for the Alliance, but with the destruction of the Sunwell they found an ever-increasing need, an addiction, for magical power. The remaining Elves were placed under the command of a man named Garithos, who was grossly intolerant of other races and drove the Elves into near-suicidal situations in the hopes they would no longer be his problem.

These remnants of the High Elves -- named Blood Elves in remembrance of their people -- were not stupid, and the commands from their "Alliance" became more and more ludicrous. It was only through the help of the Naga that they were able to survive these grim tasks; time and again, they appeared to aid Prince Kael'thas and his men. The Blood Elves came to realize they could no longer trust in the Alliance. When the offer was extended to join the Naga in service of Illidan Stormrage -- and perhaps find a cure to their addiction to magic -- Kael took it, leaving the Alliance behind.

In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. While there are Blood Elves in much larger supply, they are busy with other pursuits alongside Illidan. You'd certainly not see them fighting side by side with the Alliance anytime soon, not after such betrayal.'


AND

From the Warcraft Encyclopedia


In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense.

And confirmation in a tweet that the Warcraft Encyclopedia is still canon by Blizzard historian Loreology aka Sean Copeland

'@Loreology @Bashiok Warcraft Encyclopedia was disappeared long time, does it means the history information from encyclopedia was abolished？ @GregoryMoonkin @Bashiok Not at all. While there might be some updates to it, its disappearance doesn't mean it's no longer canonical. '

A link to who Sean Copeland is...

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sean_Copeland

And of course the infamous video where Ion Hazzikostas, the man who has been through a period of overseeing which allied races would be added and which would not, who has likely thought a lot more about Elves of all descriptions in the past eighteen months a lot more than even we have, giving his thoughts on the matter.




Now, you may find some succour in other posters agreeing with you in saying I can't back up what I am saying. But the wall of text of primary sources from Blizzard above backs up what I am saying.

Do you want to again say your counter point has not been refuted and was refuted as far back as 2005?

[Andromedes]

and in interview from 2015 Ion talks about brown orcs and high elves as possible subraces.. So i mean you wanted to say, that blizz is inconsistent with their thoughts.

[Deleted]

and in interview from 2015 Ion talks about brown orcs and high elves as possible subraces.. So i mean you wanted to say, that blizz is inconsistent with their thoughts.

Except it's 2018 now and we have Void Elves instead.

[Andromedes]

Nice observation, thank you for your insight.

[Deleted]

Nice observation, thank you for your insight.

Anytime. You think mentioning and old interview where a dev said they are aware some players would like to play as high elves or brown orcs proves anything? Of course they know, they read the forums. Your point?

[Devilyaki]

There is always a way to write them into the story if blizzard ever think it’ll make them some money, remember how Gul’dan was dead and all that, didn’t stop him from becoming a big bad guy lol

[Andromedes]

Anytime. You think mentioning and old interview where a dev said they are aware some players would like to play as high elves or brown orcs proves anything? Of course they know, they read the forums. Your point?

i already said my point, your point? That guy posted some interview from 2005 as a proof, that blizz was always decided, that they wont make high elves as a playable race, so i posted ions interview, where he said that art team is excited about talks of subraces - brown orcs, high elves... And i said, that their thoughts are inconsistent,. what else do you need to explain?