Raider.IO Development Updates - Raids and Mythic Plus

[Deleted]

What I mean by "not choosing it" is not about being unaware of the consequences, but rather ignoring them. I don't care if people don't invite me because of the low score. It is what it is until there is a better system to replace it.

The choice players have is simple:

1) Embrace the current Mythic Score system and do what is required to 'farm' a high score to get regular invites. Some people might hate what you have to do to get a decent score (i.e. running early reset runs, taking time off work, skipping classes whatever) but will do it anyway as they will hate MORE if they don't maximise their chances to get the best possible loot and run the highest possible dungeons with the best possible teams. "Do what it takes" mentality no matter what.

2) Do not embrace this inherently flawed system, do not farm a high score, but accept that your personal rejection is partially meaningless. You will still get judged on it by a bulk of the player base and they don't give two hoots about your personal opinion. However, you'll perhaps be at peace with it and you can raid or run dungeons with friends, guild members or other people who don't care about Mythic + score.

The bottom-line FUN experience between option 1 or 2 will vary according to the particular tastes and mindset of the person involved.

3) really like doing mythic+ and have fun doing them. Get experience and score for free. Get invites to content you actually like.

I do #3. Why are all people treating mythic+ like shit you have to do. Thats why you don't get score, or invites or groups. Ok, my wow progress score is only 2.3k, but is enough to get invites up to +20. And i never took of from work and only 6/13 are from the volcanic/sanguine week (was sick…)

[Loosecannon]

Just one question - maybe already asked but I did not found it - why there are so many update for this addon? I mean, almost every day once it gonna update. There is any reason behind or just the development cycle is so fast?

The way the addon works is it's just a database of everyone's score, which it looks up into. Therefore there's a nightly export to get the most up to date scores. There's no way within WoW of running a web query, so the numbers you see are just the ones present in the data files when you download the addon.

[Caprix]

3) really like doing mythic+ and have fun doing them. Get experience and score for free. Get invites to content you actually like.

I do #3. Why are all people treating mythic+ like shit you have to do. Thats why you don't get score, or invites or groups.

Lol no we don't get score because the leaderboard doesn't record most of our runs, so #3 doesn't work. I've done more 15-17 than usual lately because i wanted to play my alt with guildies and we don't do alt raids right now. Somewhere between 3-6 casuals 13-17s per week spread over 8 different dongeons, low keys rushs. Sometimes with random players from the search. I got 2 15s, 2 13s, and 1 9s recorded (spread over only 2 different dungeons)

[Deleted]

Lol no we don't get score because the leaderboard doesn't record most of our runs, so #3 doesn't work. I've done more 15-17 than usual lately because i wanted to play my alt with guildies and we don't do alt raids right now. Somewhere between 3-6 casuals 13-17s per week spread over 8 different dongeons, low keys rushs. Sometimes with random players from the search. I got 2 15s, 2 13s, and 1 9s recorded (spread over only 2 different dungeons)

Thats the leader board problem again. On the other hand if you run with friends/guild you can push your own key. We are a group of 3,5 (3 active and 1 really casual player) and worked up to the 18-20 range. Therefore we get scored. I know that pugging 1-2 players is really random when it comes to timers. But you should be able to push a key a week into the leader board even with alts. We did an alt day yesterday and did +17. Results were arc+2, cos+1, coen+1. So we could do 18/19 keys with them. We didn't, but if we wanted to push score on our alts, we could play our keys to do so.

And honestly: it doesn't matter if you have 0 score or 2k. On every dungeon we open we get 15-20 people rated between 2,5k and 3k. So if you think only score is holding you back and you want to increase yours, aim for 2,5k at least. So +18 in most dungeons. If you can do them you will get your score. If you can't, your score doesn't effect your invite chances, if people looking for score.

[Orcmeal]

Sry, but this is total bullshit for not resetting scores. Basically now anyone who is in the 3k+ region on raider.io score has no chance of catching up to those guys close to 4k or even above 4k+ in score due to the CR changes. And, don't bring up any BS argument here saying that these guys did not exploit or abuse the CR cheese prior to this patch. Because they did and so did everyone else. That's why there should be a reset to put everyone back into the same playing field. I mean you won't be losing your previous score because it will be recorded that on your previous patch this was ur score.

[Caprix]

And honestly: it doesn't matter if you have 0 score or 2k. On every dungeon we open we get 15-20 people rated between 2,5k and 3k. So if you think only score is holding you back and you want to increase yours, aim for 2,5k at least. So +18 in most dungeons. If you can do them you will get your score. If you can't, your score doesn't effect your invite chances, if people looking for score.

"18 in most dungeons" in easy week (if that's the score "everyone" has, it means it's mostly done in easy week) won't record reliably either Anyway, that's my point, you have to get out of your way to have a the addon reflecting your experience. Well except it won't exactly do that, because the showed completed key count will be far less than the reality, but at least the score would be about there (i had this discussion with a guildmate who would not believe this leaderboard issue, as his score seemed "ok" to him. Then he looked at the completed count and went "well yay something's wrong here"). But it's not "for free", as in "I just play and everyone can see what i've done, good or bad".

I agree with you it's not a big deal, tbh i'm ok with TeraAkron #2, it would be just cool if #3 could work for everyone, but that's not a possible choice for everyone.

[ItsTiddles]

The fact that the scoring system ignores affixes (i.e. easy weeks rated as much as harder weeks);

This part has been addressed many times, though. Who chooses which affixes are harder? The tank who isn't bothered by necrotic? Someone who runs with a misdirect and doesn't have a problem on skittish weeks? Does it change with dungeons? Affixes and their difficulties are not only subjective, but don't effect every dungeon equally. Having scores shift with affixes will just bring in more complaining about the high end players who can cheese the things the majority of people struggle with already. It's just asking for a larger gap in the player base.

[xStevooo]

So i always make my own groups so doesn't particularly bother me, but looking at this addon is it normal for it to be absolutely, absurdly incorrect with the information it's displaying?

I tend to just do one +15 a week for the chest, if i wanted to experience this type of feature i would play D3 again.

The addon and website engine shows I have KSM achievement, but doesn't display which M+ keys i have done - infact it says I have never completed EOA or DHT, both of which I have ran probably in excess of 50 times each.

It's now showing I done a +15 Maw run, woo-hoo ... I have in fact done +15 runs for the last 7 months which it doesn't display ANY of them.

Edit : Looking at previous posts, online searches and talking to friends/guildees in-game I think we will successfully uninstall this addon and pretend it never existed in the first place

[Onikaroshi]

Eh, I'll just keep paying for my +15s, the time it takes to get that gold is less then time it takes to find a good +15 group that doesn't use score. No biggie.

[Bhorin]

Decay score by the week (exponential decay, say times 0.95 per week), no further seasonal resets ever.

Kudos to you for finding a system that sounds even worse than their arbitrary resets.

[Cracked]

Kudos to you for finding a system that sounds even worse than their arbitrary resets.

Maybe, but at the same time, maybe you should have 50% of the score if you did the dungeon 14 weeks ago, which is more than a patch cycle.

[Bhorin]

Maybe, but at the same time, maybe you should have 50% of the score if you did the dungeon 14 weeks ago, which is more than a patch cycle.

What good does that do? Do you think someone that did a key 14 weeks ago couldn't do the same key now? If so, you are not accomplishing anything outside of adding an unnecessary grind to the score.

[Twdft]

I think we will successfully uninstall this addon and pretend it never existed in the first place

Don't forget to write an ingame suggestion urging Blizzard to increase the keystone leaderboards from top100 to at least top1000 or better yet all runs done. The problem is not raider.io addon but the data on which it depends.

To the developers: maybe display an hint once for every player to write such an ingame suggestion. Maybe they listen if more people do it.

[Cracked]

What good does that do? Do you think someone that did a key 14 weeks ago couldn't do the same key now? If so, you are not accomplishing anything outside of adding an unnecessary grind to the score.

It accomplishes no grind, just factors how long ago you did a dungeon rather than arbitrary complete resets. You get a continuous score development instead of volcanic sanguine fortified score hoarding, but you don't lose score as much as if you hadn't done the dungeon at all. What exactly are your complaints? After 5 weeks of doing the dungeon, you have ~80% of the score it awards, which is equal to what, doing 2 levels less? Seems ok to me.

[Bhorin]

It accomplishes no grind, just factors how long ago you did a dungeon rather than arbitrary complete resets. You get a continuous score development instead of volcanic sanguine fortified score hoarding, but you don't lose score as much as if you hadn't done the dungeon at all. What exactly are your complaints? After 5 weeks of doing the dungeon, you have ~80% of the score it awards, which is equal to what, doing 2 levels less? Seems ok to me.

You could accomplish the same by just not reseting it and not decaying scores. What is the point of a decayed score? I don't see how me doing a +X EoA 2 weeks ago is any better than doing a +X EoA this week. (assuming same afffixes for sake of argument--since that might be the only reason one week should differ from another).

It definitely is a grind to keep your score at Y score with the "decay" system. Because after 5 weeks you need to go back and redo you +Z on each dungeon to maintain a score of Y. (For sake of argument you could say Y is 2500 and Z is ~17). If you do all dungeons one week at +17 your score is about 2,500.. then 5 weeks later your score is now 2,200. You then need to go do every single dungeon at +17 to get back to 2,500 every 5 weeks (or whatever the cadence is). This makes absolutely no sense at all.

[xStevooo]

Don't forget to write an ingame suggestion urging Blizzard to increase the keystone leaderboards from top100 to at least top1000 or better yet all runs done. The problem is not raider.io addon but the data on which it depends.

To the developers: maybe display an hint once for every player to write such an ingame suggestion. Maybe they listen if more people do it.

I'm okay thanks, you should never have to depend on an addon to add such QoL to a game feature.

I am a bit smarter than that and could easily check someones achievements, timestamps of them, gear and it's quality (is it gemmed and enchanted etc) as a brief idea on whether to invite them or not - then again i'm talking more raids than mythic+. +15 keys are extremely easy especially with certain affixes so you don't need great requirements for them.

I understand the addon is to give you an 'at a glance snapshot' like the way people used gearscore in the past, but when it relies on flawed data then I have no idea why anyone would base their assumptions on it. As far as I am concerned I won't be using it neither will my friends or guildees as we all have experienced it being completely wrong.

[Cracked]

You could accomplish the same by just not reseting it and not decaying scores. What is the point of a decayed score? I don't see how me doing a +X EoA 2 weeks ago is any better than doing a +X EoA this week. (assuming same afffixes for sake of argument--since that might be the only reason one week should differ from another).

It definitely is a grind to keep your score at Y score with the "decay" system. Because after 5 weeks you need to go back and redo you +Z on each dungeon to maintain a score of Y. (For sake of argument you could say Y is 2500 and Z is ~17). If you do all dungeons one week at +17 your score is about 2,500.. then 5 weeks later your score is now 2,200. You then need to go do every single dungeon at +17 to get back to 2,500 every 5 weeks (or whatever the cadence is). This makes absolutely no sense at all.

Whether it makes sense at all or not is quite subjective, I respect your opinion, but don't care for it. But when you talk that you accomplish the same thing without either reset or decay, you either lack some brain power, or don't know how the score works.

[Deleted]

He's right though and you're just unable to grasp the fact that all scores will inflate and get overwritten anyway as our gear levels and experience increase.

[Cracked]

He's right though and you're just unable to grasp the fact that all scores will inflate and get overwritten anyway as our gear levels and experience increase.

Except the original reason for resets was that the difficulty corrections and going from farming level 15s to struggling in 10s again, which does not get overwritten in short enough period for people to take the score as a reasonable metric. In fact, if there was no reset or decay, my top score would still be from farming 22s and 23s shortly after Nighthold.

[durrtygoodz]

So i always make my own groups so doesn't particularly bother me, but looking at this addon is it normal for it to be absolutely, absurdly incorrect with the information it's displaying?

I tend to just do one +15 a week for the chest, if i wanted to experience this type of feature i would play D3 again.

15s are not high enough to be ranked on the Blizzard Leaderboard which is how Raider.io gets its information.

The addon and website engine shows I have KSM achievement, but doesn't display which M+ keys i have done - infact it says I have never completed EOA or DHT, both of which I have ran probably in excess of 50 times each.

It's now showing I done a +15 Maw run, woo-hoo ... I have in fact done +15 runs for the last 7 months which it doesn't display ANY of them.

You haven't done high enough keys to get ranked in the top 100. If you want a +15 to register in the top 100 and therefore appear on raider.io you need to do it very very early in the week.