Wait a second, when did we ever ask for leveling to be long? Just hard, not long!

[Allybeboba]

Right. Glad you cleared that up with a stupid response.

And glad you responded with an insult. Please carry on my friend.

Ever back to topic...
Consider doing quests in a group like we used to. Get to know some of you server mates. Be social...
We also have to realize we are barely half a day into the patch, there may be hotfixes to come. People should be patient. I for one am
enjoying the new challenge on my lower xp-locked toons.

Cheers

[Deleted]

If you want hard, go do mythics. Levelling isn't the place for hard content.

[Allybeboba]

Indeed, it is so hard and longer that there are already people over level 70 since yesterday

I mean 70 levels in 1 day omgad so much hard very wow

People are just used to blazing through levels. There will be a bit of a learning curve. Like I stated before, we are only hours into the patch. People need to realize this. They need to be patient, changes may come.

Cheers

[therealbowser]

No idea how things turned out, but overall I like that leveling wasn't a snoozefest.

The problem is that the experience required to level up went up. If it takes longer to level up, that's flat out bad. If it you are not one shotting random mobs (ie, it's "harder"), then that's good. As it was previously, it was fast to level but super boring. In a perfect world, it will be fun to level up (and help you learn your class along the way), but be still be fast and efficient; leveling content has not been a major part of the game since vanilla; it's more about the destination than the journey and should be treated as such, but I've nothing against the journey being enjoyable as long as it's not longer.

Given that it was supposedly taking significantly longer to level up, this would be a flat out bad thing despite leveling being more interesting in general. There is no benefit to leveling taking longer, regardless of whether or not it is more 'fun'. It really feels like half the reason they are doing this is to push their upcoming "Experience" potions on the Blizzard store, and if that is indeed the case, I will be severely disappointed.

[Allybeboba]

This has been amusing, people acting like it takes 10x more time to level now.

They are just used to soloing old content. Now people might have to actually “gasp!” group up with others and be friendly (bigger gasp) in order to get stuff done.

Cheers

[h4rr0d]

Whats so different between leveling and max level gameplay? You gear up you increase your power you do quest, do instances. I don't get why people hate leveling its like hating the whole game. The only thing you can't do is raiding , but if leveling content would not be trivialized you would not feel that horrible itching for some challenge. Thing is if the whole leveling is overnerfed like sht and you succeed with hammering your head into the keyboard , then ofc you are bored with it. We need strong mobs, harder leveling instances , group quests with the possibility of failure , and then it can be entertaining.

I think the biggest issue is that there's so much grind to be done at max level (leggos, AP, reps, various quest lines) and the leveling process doesn't contribute to that at all. What you do 1-109 seems to be completely useless, because the game is so different at 110. Take AP for example. During leveling you get peanuts at hundreds of AP per token. Then you ding 110 and magically a single token gives you enough AP to fill your entire artifact. Your gear becomes immediately obsolete with items that increase your power by tens of percent per piece replaced that are handed out basically for free everywhere (compare this to vanilla, where items from as low as high 40s would be useful at 60).

I know these are catch up mechanics, but nonetheless all this takes away from the immersion and feeling of achievement that should come with reaching the max level. Literally the only thing that you get to keep at max level from the leveling process is the level itself. This makes the leveling feel unrewarding and meaningless.

[Allybeboba]

No idea how things turned out, but overall I like that leveling wasn't a snoozefest.

The problem is that the experience required to level up went up. If it takes longer to level up, that's flat out bad. If it you are not one shotting random mobs (ie, it's "harder"), then that's good.

Given that it was supposedly taking significantly longer to level up, that was a flat out bad thing despite leveling being more interesting in general. If that has indeed turned out to be the case (I am not currently subscribed to test it out, I only dabbled on the PTR), it would certainly be a very bad thing. It really feels like half the reason they are doing this is to push their upcoming "Experience" potions on the Blizzard store, and if that is indeed the case, I will be severely disappointed.

So you are stating that it takes more experience per level now? That is quite an interesting change.

I wouldn’t be too shocked by your xp potion theory.

Cheers

[Vineri]

Leveling was hard enough for me as a holy priest when WoW first came out; I dread going back to that. That sucked. I agree, however, that leveling in different areas would be better and may help alleviate the boredom a bit.

If the game is boring, best to try something else. Just sayin'.

[Nalam the Venom]

If the game is boring, best to try something else. Just sayin'.

you gotta push through the boring stuff to get to the good stuff. WoW is fun at max lvl

[Tosu]

Surely to get around this whole issue they could have just created a 'hard mode' like in Diablo, for those that want levelling to be long and drawn out? Then they can go and make a forum banner to show how l33t they are and brag about how much of their lives they have happily spent downing dungeon bosses at a 4 times slower pace... unfortunately my couple of hours here and there after work just aren't going to level my characters quick enough to enjoy any endgame content... (Recently returned to the game after 2 years or so out).

[Lumineus]

how can you make leveling hard without making it long?

In vanilla, if you pull 2 mobs you die. Thus wasting another 15m running back to corpse.

I think no one really ever expected it to be "hard," just harder than it previously was. In that, the increased mob health was successful. This should have been ameliorated through increased XP gain, so that time/XP was unaffected and the zone scaling was actually beneficial. This was in fact actually done, through increased quest rewards. But the amount of XP per level was increased MORE, defeating the purpose.

[Segus1992]

Imo what they should've done for BFA is a player level shrink.
Vanilla 1-30,
BC 30-35,
WOTLK 35-40,
Cata 40-45,
MoP 45-50,
WoD 50-55,
Legion 55-60,
BFA 60-65.

That way, leveling becomes way better since it's faster and also make the zones scale in lvl like it's gonna be in 7.3.5 for huge QOL.
IMO after MoP they should've continued with the +5 lvls every xpac instead of +10. While it took roughly the same time to level up, when new expansions come out and they readjust the leveling curve, the 5 lvl xpacs are much faster.

I don't disagree, but dude - people bitched and moaned beyond belief over the ilvl squish just because their numbers were smaller even though everything was relatively the same. What do you think will happen if their levels were suddenly squished?

[rhorle]

So if you have a boss that takes 10 minutes to kill in both Normal and Mythic, there's no extra challenge in Mythic?
Because you can't have more mechanics to handle in the same amount of time, right?

Because mythic isn't just about increasing the time it takes to kill the mob. It is about managing abilities, environment, resources etc. Actually read what I've posted because I include all of that. Blizzard made Mythic more challenging rather then just making it take longer to kill.

All the while the mob is more challenging. Period.

Yes. Because it wasn't just made longer/shorter but given other abilities to make it more challenging. An absorb would take longer since you have to break the absorb including the hit points. The fact that you include might defeats your own argument.

That is the point you keep missing. Simply increasing the Hit points like Blizzard did with this change does not make anything more challenging. This change does nothing for what you kept saying people want.

[Isilrien]

If the game is boring, best to try something else. Just sayin'.

Good job in assuming you knew what I meant. The game itself isn't boring. When you've leveled 10 characters, the same quests and areas get old at times after nearly 14 years (in July for me) of playing. Just sayin'.

- - - Updated - - -

Holy wasn't too bad, just spam holy fire on everything. Make sure you bought water cuz you'd go oom after killing a couple things.

To each their own. I didn't care for it, however.

[Deleted]

Guys stop begin a NEET and make groups while levelling.

Also if they had made the mobs stronger people would have still cry


Rofl

[Camthur]

I just don't get it. Neither side is correct. Old style, quick leveling or newer style slower leveling. It's all the same. It's still the same crappy zones most of us have been through over and over again. Don't whip out that "new players" argument either. That's laughable. There are so few new players these days that any changes affect the established player base way more than a few new people here and there.

MMORPGs aren't the fad any more. Younger gamers are off playing MoBAs, First Person Shooters and battle royales these days. Even if they want to play an MMORPG, there are plenty of newer ones with younger player bases they can more easily assimilate in to.

[SirBeef]

Why would any one in their right mind spend so much time leveling for the billionth time? We wanted leveling to be HARDER, not longer! This would allow people to level multiple toons in different regions so that it doesn't bore us to death and make people quit. Remember, what made it worth while in Vanilla was that Vanilla was the end game, we weren't thinking of the many more expansions to come...How many more levels do we need? why not stop at 120 and introduce other kinds of leveling?? This is just stupid.

Since Cata forward you could see countless threads about leveling being too fast. There were some that wanted it to be harder, but the majority wanted it to take longer so that you didn't out level a zone before the story was over.

[Nurvus]

That is the point you keep missing. Simply increasing the Hit points like Blizzard did with this change does not make anything more challenging. This change does nothing for what you kept saying people want.

But I did not say it is as challenging as we want or anything like that...

Sure, the fact mobs hit harder and have more health makes it slightly more challenging, but the real benefit is not the challenge - because it's still boring - it's the fact that DoT specs and specs with considerable damage ramp up get more opportunity to shine, so it's more fair across different specs.

All I've been defending is precicely that of all the changes Blizzard made to leveling, making leveling slower is the only one that I consider bad.
Killing mobs more slowly isn't bad, as long as the XP is increased to maintain leveling speed - which Blizzard decided to not only do, but make worse by increasing the XP needed between level 1 and 60.

Doesn't mean the other changes make leveling perfect.

- - - Updated - - -

1) Time to kill alone does not make a fight hard.
2) Static fights are VERY unpopular.

I agree with both, and if you had read my post(s), you'd realize that those points should not be aimed at me, but at those trying to refute my points.

TL;DR: You LITERALLY cannot have a fight be harder AND the exact same length as it was before because difficulty increases time, as it always has in the entire history of WoW. Even on fights that are shorter in comparison to the rest of the raid tier.

We are talking about adjusting leveling to be more challenging without affecting leveling speed - LEVELING SPEED.
You can make a mob take 5x longer to kill, but grant enough XP to make sure you reach max level with the same amount of time /played.

Plus, you just said Mythic Blackhand was roughly 6 min and tough as balls, and Imperator Margok was 15 minutes and tough as balls.
Likewise, when making changes to leveling, Blizzard can decide to increase the difficulty in a way that makes a mob REALLY dangerous, but not necessarily take longer to kill than before, and instead have a lot of mechanics.

If you are a bad player or don't pay attention, you can get killed and leveling becomes longer.
If you are a good player and use mechanics properly, you might even level faster.

The fact that Blizzard didn't do this for nearly all different difficulties of the same encounter in Raids is irrelevant to the point I'm making...
I'm merely saying you CAN make something more challenging WITHOUT increasing its duration, regardless of whether Blizzard has CHOSEN to do it or not.

Even if you're restricting your reasoning to Encounter History alone, think about Hodir:
The Hard Mode is designed to be done in less time than Normal - it is a Time Attack.
You have to abuse certain buffs, which require a lot more coordination and focus than Normal Mode.
So yes, the higher difficulty of Hodir is designed to be done in LESS time, which is not solely dependant on having more gear, but mainly on abusing mechanics flawlessly.

Similarly, you can:
Give a mob 2x Health & DPS but make it so that if you CC/Interrupt the mob he takes 4x damage for 5 seconds.
Instead of increasing mob health, give it a dispellable buff that increases damage dealt by +100% and reduces damage taken by 50%, and even allow mages to spellsteal it.

Again, you CAN increase challenge without increasing length.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Check the classic forum for your answer. Either way, leveling is not longer now. Please stop perpetuating this nonsense.

[rhorle]

Sure, the fact mobs hit harder and have more health makes it slightly more challenging, but the real benefit is not the challenge - because it's still boring - it's the fact that DoT specs and specs with considerable damage ramp up get more opportunity to shine, so it's more fair across different specs.

DoT specs did perfectly fine leveling before. There is no benefit to increasing the time a target stays alive just so a DoT can fully tick. There is nothing being allowed to shine while leveling and level up dungeons shouldn't take longer in order to bring "shine" to classes while leveling.