The first void elves were blood elves, but the rest?

[Captain Kennedy]

Given how under developed they are, they do seem like a last minute addition or change.

Given a number of factors, including how the other three Allied races tie into Legion's story, it seems like Krokul were likely the original Allied Race in place of Void Elves. Think about it, Blizzard made new models and deliberately added them into Argus. If there weren't any there, no one would have cried foul, because up until 7.3 we didn't know there were OG Eredar still living there. They're also specifically Broken, which has been a reasonably popular sub race choice back when people were talking about sub races.

Now getting new Broken models would make sense if they had a heavy story influence. But after they're set up, they don't really contribute much. They're just sort of there while the armies of Azeroth and the Army of the Light lay siege. So we get brand new Broken models, a new faction of them is set up and don't really add much to the overall story, and they were added as a new reputation. Given how horribly under developed the Void Elves are, and given Blizzard gave time to set up another race that has yet to go anywhere, it seems like these Broken were likely one of the original Allied Races Blizzard was planning for pre-release. And were put on Argus so they have more story significance than the ones residing on Outland.

Now that's not to say we won't get Krokul, there's a good chance we'll still get them or another form of Broken. But it does seem that Krokul are being set up that way, and if they were in place of Void Elves they would tie in a lot stronger both narrative wise and gameplay systems wise. We get Void Elves from Argussian Reach rep - which is weird to say the least - it would have made more sense if it were Krokul instead. They have new models, an area that can be phased for a starting zone and the perfect timing story wise.

The reason they likely changed their minds later on was they would have been doubling up on Draenei sub races during the Allied Races' first implementation.

[TickTickTick]

"Ha! Retarded blood elves! Im not some kind of addict to leech the power from the naaru or the sunwell! Im a clean and sane high elf!"

Also

"Let me just sap into those void lords and leech their powers"

The most retarded thing is that some of the void elves are former blood elves. Like, a 100% treason is one thing. But how do they feel living with the people they've been fighting for so many years? How does the alliance feel about it?

Really, void elves lore is a cluster fuck. Would make more sense if it was just the remaining few high elves going void after alleria.

[Deleted]

Provide a valid and clear source from Blizzard to back your bold statement. Otherwise, I will not take your tantrums and speculation as a fact.

Valid and clear source? No, there isn't one. But the writing's on the wall.

All you need to do is look at Blizzard's development cycles for WoW. Argus was announced in november 2016, barely 3 months after the release of Legion, indicating Blizzard was already beyond the preliminary development stages of Argus. Despite there being 9 months of development time between the announcement and the release of Argus, there isn't a single mention or hint towards Void Elves in all of Argus. Their announcement at Blizzcon 2017 was a complete surprise to everyone. But this actually makes sense, as you'd expect the majority of WoW's developers to already be working on BFA, with little development resources to spare on Allied Races, let alone on adding Void Elf content to Alleria's already established arc for Mac'Aree.

Allied Races just aren't up to Blizzard's standards in comparison to other races with regards to their art assets and customisation options, which shows that they were not originally intended to be a part of Legion. The fact that they had to completely redevelop the Nightborne, a massive waste of development resources to develop them not once but twice, is further evidence of this, as is the fact that the Horde's Allied Races have a massively disproportionate amount of Legion content compared to the Alliance's Allied Races, which is the complete opposite of Blizzard's established M.O. of faction balanced development for every race addition so far.

All of this adds up to Blizzard having been neck deep in BFA's development cycle already when they finally decided to add Allied Races through four ridiculously short scenarios that had nothing leading up to them but simply took what Legion had already established and built upon that. It worked for Highmountain and Lightforged, it completely threw Alliance players who had played through Suramar, and it's an utter joke for Void Elves since there simply wasn't anything for the developers to work with besides a story for Alleria that was more than likely intended to bridge Legion's story into BFA rather than be the lead-up to the introduction of a new race. In fact, playing through Mac'Aree, if you'd expect an Allied Race to come from that, you'd expect it to be the Krokul since they, and not Void Elves, are actually the people involved in Alleria's story and making up the faction which you have to grind reputation with.

Yeah, the evidence is circumstantial, but it adds up within the context of how development cycles work.

[Zulkhan]

The Quel'dorei are dead! Long live the Hypocri'dorei!

@Northem would be proud.

[Qualia]

The Void is a dark and vampiric force driven to devour all energy, to twist creation inward to feed upon itself. We need to stop the "Void is just another energy" BS, it's a primordial version of Fel.

Yes, it is, which makes it "just another energy". Just like Fel, using it doesn't automatically make you good or bad - all the Demon Hunters, for example, are being considered as Chaotic Good. The High Elves, or BE for that matter, don't turn into a bad guy that sought to consume all others when they become Void Elves, that only happens if they fall to the whispers (and that wouldn't be intended, plus that they haven't so far). As long as the user can keep themselves in control, they would be fine. There might be some that fall to the whispers, but as I said, in the end, that lies in the user's responsibility rather than their choice to wield the power.

"Let me just sap into those void lords and leech their powers"

The Void Lords aren't the Void, though. One is some sort of big, powerful, cruel void elemental, another is a dimension / cosmic force. Taking power from the Void doesn't mean you leech it off the Void Lords themselves.

[Arrashi]

What's wrong about using the Void? I don't think they are feeding any Azeroth critters now, are they? The Void, just like the Light, Arcane or Fel (but more similar to Fel, or is it the other way around) is just a source of power. There isn't anything inherently good or bad about using it. It could be hard to control, but that fells on the user's responsibility. They are pretty much the new DK / DH - is the whispers from the Void even worse than the DK's natural urge to cause pain and death or DH's constant whispers in their heads and fits of rages? Alleria's mental health seems to be better than Vandel's in "Illidan".

Failing saving roll for sanity and raping and eating your entire family ?

[Qualia]

Failing saving roll for sanity and raping and eating your entire family ?

Well, that applies to DHs and DKs too. Seeing most of DHs and DKs have been doing fine and DHs are considered the good guys, VE will probably be fine as well.

[Arrashi]

Well, that applies to DHs and DKs too. Seeing most of DHs and DKs have been doing fine and DHs are considered the good guys, VE will probably be fine as well.

Except it doesn't.

[Zulkhan]

Yes, it is, which makes it "just another energy". Just like Fel, using it doesn't automatically make you good or bad - all the Demon Hunters, for example, are being considered as Chaotic Good. The High Elves, or BE for that matter, don't turn into a bad guy that sought to consume all others when they become Void Elves, that only happens if they fall to the whispers (and that wouldn't be intended, plus that they haven't so far). As long as the user can keep themselves in control, they would be fine. There might be some that fall to the whispers, but as I said, in the end, that lies in the user's responsibility rather than their choice to wield the power.

All of this is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to judge the High Elf's moral consistency. These guys have chosen exile from the only home they had for way less than dabbling with the most dangerous power in the universe. That's either inconsistency or naked hypocrisy.

[Qualia]

All of this is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to judge the High Elf's moral consistency. These guys have chosen exile from the only home they had for way less than dabbling with the most dangerous power in the universe. That's either inconsistency or naked hypocrisy.

I wouldn't disagree with possible inconsistency. I was just pointing out that taking in the Void and becoming Void Elves isn't hypocrisy if what were brought up was that "they couldnt stand feeding on mana critters" before. If they are feeding on, or seek to consume other creatures on Azeroth now, that'd be hypocrisy. However, they aren't, and didn't plan to do so when they took in the Void either (if one of them loses to the whispers, that'd be an unintended effect, surely no VE took in the Void planning to throwaway their sanity from the start, is there?). The point was that taking in, and using the Void doesn't automatically make them evil, so calling them hypocrites isn't entirely correct.

Except it doesn't.

How doesn't it? DH is also constantly being whispered in their mind for violence, torture, vengeance and joining the Legion's course, while getting occasion fits of rage. DKs are addicted with, and feel "immeasurable pain and agony" or outright went mad if they don't inflict pain, agony and / or death to others.

[Arrashi]

How doesn't it? DH is also constantly being whispered in their mind for violence, torture, vengeance and joining the Legion's course, while getting occasion fits of rage. DKs are addicted with, and feel "immeasurable pain and agony" or outright went mad if they don't inflict pain, agony and / or death to others.

Because Dks don't flip their shit out, and for DHs the failure rate is surprisingly small. On the other hand all void infected entities fall into madness, even alleria herself stated that.

[Combatbutler]

How doesn't it? DH is also constantly being whispered in their mind for violence, torture, vengeance and joining the Legion's course, while getting occasion fits of rage. DKs are addicted with, and feel "immeasurable pain and agony" or outright went mad if they don't inflict pain, agony and / or death to others.

By a single demon, a strong connections is much much worse than that, their mere presence corrupts and unravels as seen with Alleria at the sunwell. It is flat out stated there were no mortals to have ever resisted the void in the whole universe, the void are such an exception the term anomaly would be best to describe them, otherwise there is a 100% failure rate involved and even then a single moment of weakness seals their fate.

[Qualia]

Because Dks don't flip their shit out, and for DHs the failure rate is surprisingly small. On the other hand all void infected entities fall into madness, even alleria herself stated that.

So it falls into the user's self-control, they are still essentially the same. The Void is just harder to control than Fel and whatever infected the DKs - and this is merely an assumption, as Alleria and the Void Elves seem pretty sane at the moment while some DHs went mad shortly after becoming one.

By a single demon, a strong connections is much much worse than that, their mere presence corrupts and unravels as seen with Alleria at the sunwell. It is flat out stated there were no mortals to have ever resisted the void in the whole universe, the void are such an exception the term anomaly would be best to describe them, otherwise there is a 100% failure rate involved and even then a single moment of weakness seals their fate.

That's true, but that didn't contradict with was what I said. It's not a 100% failure rate, it's just higher than DK and DH. It's not like you can't defy the whispers - Alleria was already the first mortal to do so and remained sane for about 300-500 years so far, so it's just a matter of not messing up. *If* the user doesn't have even a single moment of weakness, they would be fine, wouldn't they? It all comes down to the user's willpower, VE just have a smaller margin for error.

[Combatbutler]

So it falls into the user's self-control, they are still essentially the same. The Void is just harder to control than Fel and whatever infected the DKs - and this is merely an assumption, as Alleria and the Void Elves seem pretty sane at the moment while some DHs went mad shortly after becoming one.

The scale is fundamentally different. for example demon hunters are only once barraged with alternate possibilities, which usually causes them to rip their eyes out, void elves have this constantly.

[Arrashi]

So it falls into the user's self-control, they are still essentially the same. The Void is just harder to control than Fel and whatever infected the DKs - and this is merely an assumption, as Alleria and the Void Elves seem pretty sane at the moment while some DHs went mad shortly after becoming one.

Actually, all void elves were shitting themselves and screaming before alleria saved them. Temporary.

[Magnagarde]

The playable characters surely are blood elves as they're instantly available as void elves when the character is created. There's no "training" timeframe for them. On top of this the ones that you showed that are still being trained are said blood elves that are still training as not all of them mastered the void in an instant.

[Combatbutler]

That's true, but that didn't contradict with was what I said. It's not a 100% failure rate, it's just higher than DK and DH. It's not like you can't defy the whispers - Alleria was already the first mortal to do so and remained sane for about 300-500 years so far, so it's just a matter of not messing up. *If* the user doesn't have even a single moment of weakness, they would be fine, wouldn't they? It all comes down to the user's willpower, VE just have a smaller margin for error.

Yet established lore says that no mortal before alleria was able to resist the whispers in the entire universe, so we are talking about trillions of trillions of people, the void is simply a cut above what mortals should be able to handle, the way it was established. The void elves cheapen the void itself and are utterly ridiculous if all established lore is considered, especially Alleria, someone who I would have never considered as mentally strong, considering how easily she caved after the death of her brother and the burning of Quel'thalas outskirts.

[Qualia]

The scale is fundamentally different. for example demon hunters are only once barraged with alternate possibilities, which usually causes them to rip their eyes out, void elves have this constantly.

Yes, that's why I said it's harder to control. However, as long as it's not 0% or 100%, a 1% and 99% chance are - in the end - essentially the same. You would still have to rely on chance of not messing up. A 99% would be safer, but you can always get a bad roll that screw up your fate; I'm sure none of the VE became Void Elves thinking that "Oh, I'm definitely going to fail and go insane", but "I will manage to keep in control" instead.

Yet established lore says that no mortal before alleria was able to resist the whispers in the entire universe, so we are talking about trillions of trillions of people, the void is simply a cut above what mortals should be able to handle, the way it was established. The void elves cheapen the void itself and are utterly ridiculous if all established lore is considered, especially Alleria, someone who I would have never considered as mentally strong, considering how easily she caved after the death of her brother and the burning of Quel'thalas outskirts.

You are right, but that wasn't what I was discussing, though. To the poster I originally answered, I was pointing out that taking in the Void is just a risky move, it's not one that automatically turn you evil or make you sought to consume everything - which means calling the VE hypocrite isn't entirely correct.
(Not really related to the topic, but do we even know how many people ever tried dabbling in the Void in WoW universe, though? What if only two or three planet worth of people ever developed so far that they tried their hand at it before Alleria did, while the rest were more or less less-intelligent demons / monsters accidentally affected by Void energy?)

[Deleted]

They're basically saying that Void Elves = High Elves so the crybabies that want High Elves will finally stfu.

A grown person with a unicorn for an avatar calling people he dont know crybabies

[Combatbutler]

Yes, that's why I said it's harder to control. However, as long as it's not 0% or 100%, a 1% and 99% chance are - in the end - essentially the same. You would still have to rely on chance of not messing up. A 99% would be safer, but you can always get a bad roll that screw up your fate; I'm sure none of the VE became Void Elves thinking that "Oh, I'm definitely going to fail and go insane", but "I will manage to keep in control" instead.

Alleria does just that, despite what she says ingame. Void elves will fall the question is when.

Lothraxion spoke up. "I have known darkness, Alleria. I have seen lost creatures. You are not one of them. You have not crossed the threshold."
"I will, one day," she said simply.


The nathrezim scoffed. "In the Legion's name, I did countless things that cannot be forgiven. I committed genocide over and over and over again. The Light redeemed me nonetheless. I will not give up on you, Alleria Windrunner. Not that easily."

Turalyon studied her face. He knew her too well. She appreciated what Lothraxion was saying… but she didn't believe it