Why do Social Issues Almost Always Lose to Economics?

[Deleted]

Did you know... slaves were worth a lot more money than western commoners nowadays? Human value is so bottom currently... it's awesome for my party.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Because the 1% aren't happy with 20 billion, they want 30 billion.

The richest run the world, naturally the world becomes obsessed with wealth.

[nanook12]

Another thread full of anti-market bias, color me shocked.

At what point do we stop do we stop referring to it as "the market" and start calling it was it really is, greed? Do we have to wait until there are trillionairs while the average employee makes $1.00 an hour? The U.S. society is one ruled and ran by greed. If societies can be underpinned by any human emotion, greed seems like one of the worst.

[Shinra1]

What's greedier, believing that you should be able to fend for yourself, or demanding that other people should have to pay for you because you refuse to work hard enough to provide for yourself? Also, stop saying "free" health care. Nothing is free.

It is easy to tell people to fend for themselves and pay their own way when you don't have to do it. Easier said than done, especially when people like you haven't had to fend for themselves since you have generational wealth, your white and male privilege to protect you. You're one greedy elephant with a bad attitude, man.

[Deleted]

"I think you should pay for this"
"Okay, I agree, but I don't have any money"
"I don't care, it's important so you should pay for it"
"Yes, I understand that, but even if I wanted to, I don't -have- the money for it."
"You aren't getting it, it's important. So you need to pay for it. I don't care if you don't have the money."
"Oookay. We'll do it. It just won't happen indefinitely, because there's nothing to pay for it."
"Great!"
"Great."

"i wanna go to a doctor"
"you dont have the money for it, now die"
"ooookay."
"great"
"great... "

[nanook12]

What's greedier, believing that you should be able to fend for yourself, or demanding that other people should have to pay for you because you refuse to work hard enough to provide for yourself? Also, stop saying "free" health care. Nothing is free.

I prefer cooperation over competition. Back in our hunter gatherer days many would come back to camp empty handed because hunts are not always successful, but because we shared with each other and realized that the whole is much more important than the individual we were able to progress. It was the human ability to share and cooperate that made us top animal of all animals. Those who refused to share in our early human history were quick shunned because individualism was harmful to the survival of the group.

[Niroshi]

Partly because we have a significant amount of our population who have been duped into believing myths of self sufficiency, while simultaneously living on generations of shared effort and pooled resources for essential needs.

[Spectral]

Easier said than done, especially when people like you haven't had to fend for themselves since you have generational wealth, your white and male privilege to protect you.

I can't speak for @Barrages, but my "white and male privilege" weren't the reasons that I wound up at a quality university and earned my education. I had zero generational wealth (well, negative really, but who's counting?) and went to a rural school until I switched to homeschooling, where I was largely self-taught from textbooks. I earned my standardized testing scores to get into the school I went to with a combination of intellectual curiosity, hard work, and good talent (obviously I can't take credit for the talent part).

The notion that this comes from "privilege" is galling. Nothing about my background is at all consistent with the privilege model of how people get ahead in life.

[nanook12]

It's certainly not perfect and it has some terrible impacts, particularly in poorer post-colonial countries along with devastating environmental consequences and a miriad of socio-economic issues world wide. It does however, work better than any other large scale social/economic system we've had as a species. I don't think capitalism is anything other than flawed but i'm still pro-capitalism.

Steam engines worked great in their time, yet why are they pretty much extinct today? Everything changes, and entire socioeconomic systems are subject to that change also. Just because something worked in the past does not mean it will always work. Capitalism has been successful, the difference between me and you is that I am open minded enough to believe that there are other systems out there that will work just as good or better. Your mind is closed off to that idea, hinting that you lack future sight.

[Afrospinach]

Because you can't do anything about social issues if you are eating dirt to survive

Looks like we are done here.

[igualitarist]

Here economics have always lost to social issues, thats why we are in an economical crisis, never managed to get rich and always elect populists.

[druenos]

Ultimately, it's because modern neoliberal governments sell the tale that you need a strong economy in order to pay for public services; public services are considered essentially "bad" under this approach. They completely whitewash the fact that strong public services can contribute to a healthy economy and, thus, that they should potentially come first.

It's potentially no surprise that nations with strong public services, such as Norway, Germany or the Netherlands, have much stronger economies than far more neoliberal nations such as the United Kingdom or America.

Why are bunching the UK with America, we have universal healthcare and other social services. Our public services are just fine, and in what world is the Norweigian economy anywhere near that of the UK. Norway spends more per person on social services than the UK but that is not a representation of the entire economy.

[nanook12]

Here economics have always lost to social issues, thats why we are in an economical crisis, never managed to get rich and always elect populists.

Can we trade places?

[Spectral]

It's potentially no surprise that nations with strong public services, such as Norway, Germany or the Netherlands, have much stronger economies than far more neoliberal nations such as the United Kingdom or America.

This shit is laughable. Norway's a tiny irrelevant blip with a massive oil glut (50% of their exports, 20% of total GDP) - it's not worth considering from a scalable policy perspective.

Germany's fine, but their per capita GDP is ~$9K/person lower than the United States. If it was an American state, the per capita GDP would rank 38th, sandwiched in between Oklahoma and Missouri, which aren't exactly known for their wealth.

I don't blame Germany's good social programs for its economy being weaker than that of the United States, but it's pretty funny that you credit their social systems for their imagined strength.

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Can we trade places?

Wanting to trade places between California and Brazil is about as absurd a fetishization of the unfamiliar as you're going to get. I'm not going to take potshots at Brazil, but suffice it to say, it's not doing super well relative to Cali.

[igualitarist]

Can we trade places?

Do you really want to trade California for Brazil ?

Ohh well, sure we can... Lol

[Shinra1]

You can have high quality healthcare, you can have universal healthcare or you can have free healthcare - pick two out of three.

False. You can have high quality, free and universal healthcare. Just look at Switzerland and the UK.

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I can't speak for @Barrages, but my "white and male privilege" weren't the reasons that I wound up at a quality university and earned my education. I had zero generational wealth (well, negative really, but who's counting?) and went to a rural school until I switched to homeschooling, where I was largely self-taught from textbooks. I earned my standardized testing scores to get into the school I went to with a combination of intellectual curiosity, hard work, and good talent (obviously I can't take credit for the talent part).

The notion that this comes from "privilege" is galling. Nothing about my background is at all consistent with the privilege model of how people get ahead in life.

Look I'm glad you achieved all of that and I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishments and sure it must be easier and more comforting to tell yourself that you have not benefited from your privilege. However, the cold truth is that every single white male benefits from white male privilege regardless of whether you want to or not. The way privilege works is that its ubiquitous, complicit and in many cases covert.

[Blamblam41]

Because you can't do anything about social issues if you are eating dirt to survive

Eating dirt sounds like a social educational problem, not an economical one.

Grow your own fucking food with that dirt you ape.

[Spectral]

Look I'm glad you achieved all of that and I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishments and sure it must be easier and more comforting to tell yourself that you have not benefited from your privilege. However, the cold truth is that every single white male benefits from white male privilege regardless of whether you want to or not. The way privilege works is that its ubiquitous, complicit and in many cases covert.

I'm sure it's comforting for people that haven't accomplished what I have to insist that it's just because of discrimination, even though universities engage in substantial pro-black discrimination (one example here, med school specific).

The best and worst part of white privilege is being aware that your successes and failures are your own - there's no fallback of believing that you're actually really brilliant and it's just systemic racism keeping you down.

[Blamblam41]

False. You can have high quality, free and universal healthcare. Just look at Switzerland and the UK.

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Look I'm glad you achieved all of that and I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishments and sure it must be easier and more comforting to tell yourself that you have not benefited from your privilege. However, the cold truth is that every single white male benefits from white male privilege regardless of whether you want to or not. The way privilege works is that its ubiquitous, complicit and in many cases covert.

Is white male privilege rated at the same percentage differences of capability between men and women?

I just want to know, so I know exactly how much I need to limit myself in order for it to seem fair for everyone. I've already been consigned to life with a shitty body and chronic migraines since the age of 10, but I had no idea that my privilege is what kept me alive not my will power.

[StayTuned]

"I think you should pay for this"
"Okay, I agree, but I don't have any money"
"I don't care, it's important so you should pay for it"
"Yes, I understand that, but even if I wanted to, I don't -have- the money for it."
"You aren't getting it, it's important. So you need to pay for it. I don't care if you don't have the money."
"Oookay. We'll do it. It just won't happen indefinitely, because there's nothing to pay for it."
"Great!"
"Great."

How do some rich countries manage but others don't? Missing money can't be the reason. Only wrongfully allocated money.