Main thread: No Zandalari Paladins?

[Yarathir]

I will continue insisting that Zandadins should be a thing.

I don't mean to be naive, but I still have hope they can happen. Dark Irons are also not done when it comes to their class selection on the alpha yet, we know that for a fact.

[Steampunkette]

Draenei paladins are literally the same as human paladins... Noble Paladin riding an Elekk in Plate Armour. They share the same values, wear plate, use 2H weapons, use the Holy Light directly and ride an animal mount. They're just a bit more purple and crystal-y

Zandalari trolls have different values, are half naked and don't use the Holy Light. Your logic doesn't take

No. They're not "Literally the Same" as human Paladins.

For one thing they ride Elekk. They summon Magical Elephants with their Holy Magic granted by the Light. Why would that spell summon a freaking HORSE just because a Human did it on a far away planet? They also use Crystalline Hammers. And Crystals in their Armor. The quintessential Vindicator, the original Paladins (as far as we know!) within WoW Lore use massive crystal hammers as a weapon, whether they're Tanking or DPSing. Humans use Shields and hold books (Or put books on their belts)

The Human Paladin is Gold and Silver. Draenei are Pink and Silver. All the Paladin spells are Gold, though. Belf paladins wear Red and Black and ride gigantic chickens. Tauren ride Lizards and wear feathers. Dwarves? Dwarves summon a GOAT. Honestly that's probably closest to the Draenei 'cause they're summoning a Draenei to ride! *this was meant as a joke*

As to the same Values: They happen to worship the same "God-Force" in the universe. One that had 0 problems trying to force itself on Illidan even when he rejected it in a pretty clear rape-allegory... And that light gives it's powers to Murderers and Torturers without qualms so even if humans have similar values... What does that say about Draenei?

Seriously, friendo, your argument is ultimately one of aesthetics. Not of Lore. You don't like the idea of tribal Zandalari Paladins and... yeah. That's okay? No one demands you like the idea. But at least argue it on -that- basis rather than pretending all the Lore that undermines your position is either invalid or irrelevant.

The Scarlets used the light to torture. Arthas used the light to slaughter. Turalyon used the light to both torture -and- slaughter. All of them innocents.

There's nothing "Lawful Good" about that. And "Christian" is debatable, but we'd get banned or at -least- infracted.

Argue in good faith, and we'll do the same.

[Yarathir]

I have, I still don't see it. And prelates and freethinkers were just a few in ToT. Maybe blizz can make up some lore for you guys later down the road. But for now they agree with me.

Just the existence of the Prelates and Freethinkers implies otherwise.

[Faerillis]

So where would Zandy trolls get their abilities from? What deity of loa? Because so far there is none we know of.

- - - Updated - - -

Sunwalkers were in lore before blood elf paladin's. And prelate and freethinkers are really just generic terms for those npcs.

Look man, if you're just going to ignore every bit of evidence presented to you and just constantly shift the mark so that no one could hit it.... Why are you here? Why be part of an argument if you're not willing to approach it with intellectual honesty and a willingness to consider other points — just psshhtt and leave the thread if that's what you're here to do.

Zandalari Paladins are well established in the Lore and not something Blizzard has hesitated to showcase before. I personally understand why they would be excluded, the Alliance-players would be kind of outraged — I wouldn't say they'd be right but there would be at least some sensibility to it — whereas only a small group would be upset about the exclusion of Prelates.
As for how they get their power? You may not have noticed but Loa are not a strictly defined type of entity but rather any non-mortal entity that gives benefit to a group of Trolls (while Troll 'Gods' seem to be the same just more willing to take). Hence why many Wild Gods are praised as Loa. Hence why entities from the Shadowlands, like Bwomsamdi, are praised as Loa. The chance of Trolls coming across a consciousness like a Naaru, or like Elune's light-oriented side, and determining it to be a Loa are incredibly high. Hell, the Blood Trolls certainly treat G'Huun as a Loa and he appears to be an Old God or at least a minion tied to them.

Hell I am pretty damn sure Blizzard started making the Zandalari Paladins and scrapped it to avoid the controversy, since the CE Mount looks exactly like what a Troll Paladin mount would be. I accept that they're gone and why, I just hope Blizzard shows us some reason why In-Game.

[Deleted]

Ok I decided to go to the Isle of Thunder again after a long while just to check on the NPCs going around and why basing predictions on specific NPC classes can become quite inaccurate:

For example, I came across the Zandalari Soulbinders/Spiritweavers - They cast Shadow bolt and seem to use some sort of Drain Soul on NPCs around the place. That should make them Warlocks correct? Shadow Bolt is after all the absolute most common and iconic Warlock spell. On the other hand they also use Shadow nova, which is a Subtlety rogue trait. So are they Rogue Warlocks? No, they are Soulbinders, they are an NPC class.

Loa Speakers use Healing Touch, which is a Druid ability, but then also use infusing with Loa, which could be, if anything, considered some sort of more mystical Loa related hunter ability since they use it on beasts.

Jaguar Warriors also use certain Rogue abilities and so on so on you get the point.

What I mean with this is that, you can argue what classes these NPCs are when comparing their abilities to the ones Player classes use, but that won't make them those exact classes because NPC groups and societies tend to have classes that cannot be directly translated into player classes and make a poor argument to justify the existence of them even if you argue their abilities match, you cannot be sure.

(Also in terms of armour it's hard to tell what type they are wearing because their armour is created from scratch to match their race. Jaguar Warriors look very similar to Soulbinders and Beastcallers honestly, you can't tell if they are using Plate, Cloth, Mail or Leather just like that. )

[Faerillis]

No. They're not "Literally the Same" as human Paladins.

For one thing they ride Elekk. They summon Magical Elephants with their Holy Magic granted by the Light. Why would that spell summon a freaking HORSE just because a Human did it on a far away planet? They also use Crystalline Hammers. And Crystals in their Armor. The quintessential Vindicator, the original Paladins (as far as we know!) within WoW Lore use massive crystal hammers as a weapon, whether they're Tanking or DPSing. Humans use Shields and hold books (Or put books on their belts)

The Human Paladin is Gold and Silver. Draenei are Pink and Silver. All the Paladin spells are Gold, though. Belf paladins wear Red and Black and ride gigantic chickens. Tauren ride Lizards and wear feathers. Dwarves? Dwarves summon a GOAT. Honestly that's probably closest to the Draenei 'cause they're summoning a Draenei to ride! *this was meant as a joke*

Errr.... what?

Dwarf and Blood Elf Paladins ride Chargers, not Goats nor Birds. Dwarves should have their own Pally mount but don't and Blood Elves have their own breed of horse that was pretty much ear-marked for Paladins... (not at all to just use a recoloured version of the same mount I'm sure)

[Steampunkette]

Errr.... what?

Dwarf and Blood Elf Paladins ride Chargers, not Goats nor Birds. Dwarves should have their own Pally mount but don't and Blood Elves have their own breed of horse that was pretty much ear-marked for Paladins... (not at all to just use a recoloured version of the same mount I'm sure)

To be honest I haven't played a Dwarf or Belf Paladin in a long time... but the Tauren still summon a Kodo and the Draenei summon an Elekk and if it's all the same spell why's it grabbing different animals for different cultures?

You could argue that there's no Elekk on Azeroth to ride so it grabs Horses, but since there's Horses why would it grab Kodo? Horse models scale to support Tauren, and Kodo shrink when Belves ride them. *shrug!*

Anywho. Point I'm making is: The spell should always summon the same thing if it's just the spell working. But it ain't just the spell working. The spell interacts with cultural norms to get Kodos and Elekks and Horses.

[Zaylin]

Some class/race combos are just too rare to playable. Some NPC race/class combos exsist in game that will probably never be available.There is Gravewalker Gie the Pandaren Death Knight, Rala Wildheart the Orc Druid, High Botanist Freywinn is one of the few Blood Elf Druids, and Sir Zeliek the Undead Paladin. There is also Dagg the Ogre Rouge, but I dont know if he counts.

[Ramz]

Ok I decided to go to the Isle of Thunder again after a long while just to check on the NPCs going around and why basing predictions on specific NPC classes can become quite inaccurate:

For example, I came across the Zandalari Soulbinders/Spiritweavers - They cast Shadow bolt and seem to use some sort of Drain Soul on NPCs around the place. That should make them Warlocks correct? Shadow Bolt is after all the absolute most common and iconic Warlock spell. On the other hand they also use Shadow nova, which is a Subtlety rogue trait. So are they Rogue Warlocks? No, they are Soulbinders, they are an NPC class.

Loa Speakers use Healing Touch, which is a Druid ability, but then also use infusing with Loa, which could be, if anything, considered some sort of more mystical Loa related hunter ability since they use it on beasts.

Jaguar Warriors also use certain Rogue abilities and so on so on you get the point.

What I mean with this is that, you can argue what classes these NPCs are when comparing their abilities to the ones Player classes use, but that won't make them those exact classes because NPC groups and societies tend to have classes that cannot be directly translated into player classes and make a poor argument to justify the existence of them even if you argue their abilities match, you cannot be sure.

(Also in terms of armour it's hard to tell what type they are wearing because their armour is created from scratch to match their race. Jaguar Warriors look very similar to Soulbinders and Beastcallers honestly, you can't tell if they are using Plate, Cloth, Mail or Leather just like that. )

And Zandalari prelate is paladin class.
I really don't get again why you try so hard to dismiss it.

When you gave no real evidence why that shouldn't be an option. There is only one class that can wear plate and deal holy damage abilities while fighting in melee style.

[Deleted]

And Zandalari prelate is paladin class.
I really don't get again why you try so hard to dismiss it.

When you gave no real evidence why that shouldn't be an option. There is only one class that can wear plate and deal holy damage abilities while fighting in melee style.

I'm not dismissing them, just saying there is no absolute proof. Some of the casters seem to be wearing some plate too, it doesn't define their class under a Playable character point of view. I'm mostly saying that I find it weird when people will go through hell and back to justify Paladins using Prelates and will deny Warlocks are relevant when Spiritbinders are in the same location, wear what seems to be cloth and use blatant Warlock spells.

The theory either works both ways or doesn't at all.

[Yarathir]

And Zandalari prelate is paladin class.
I really don't get again why you try so hard to dismiss it.

When you gave no real evidence why that shouldn't be an option. There is only one class that can wear plate and deal holy damage abilities while fighting in melee style.

They literally have Seal of the Loa, Light of the Loa (a heal) and Judgment of the Loa.

How much more Paladin can it get? Do they need to have Consecration of the Loa, too? Loa Strike? Shield of the Loa?

It's not just a mob that they give Paladin abilities. They went out of their way to make them use Paladin abilities and specifically implied that they get their holy powers from faith in the Loa, or at least a Loa.

[Syegfryed]

Some class/race combos are just too rare to playable. Some NPC race/class combos exsist in game that will probably never be available.There is Gravewalker Gie the Pandaren Death Knight, Rala Wildheart the Orc Druid, High Botanist Freywinn is one of the few Blood Elf Druids, and Sir Zeliek the Undead Paladin. There is also Dagg the Ogre Rouge, but I dont know if he counts.

well, the thing with this combos are all about context, when orcs druids are totally lore friendly, blood elf druids not, since this botanist is just a guy who use arcane mage to emulate nature magic, pretty much he is a "fake" druid.

Even if undeads can be paladin, the forsaken will not, because of their society right now.

pandaren dk would happens if they ever made a update in the DK start area

the ogre rogue its just supposed to be a gag

[Deleted]

They literally have Seal of the Loa, Light of the Loa (a heal) and Judgment of the Loa.

How much more Paladin can it get? Do they need to have Consecration of the Loa, too? Loa Strike? Shield of the Loa?

It's not just a mob that they give Paladin abilities. They went out of their way to make them use Paladin abilities and specifically implied that they get their holy powers from faith in the Loa, or at least a Loa.

And yet Blizzard held that to such relevance that they did not think it was important enough to justify the existence of Playable paladins. It is almost as if their reasoning transcended raid mobs and more than 10 year old content created to purposely match the existent Player character classes of the time in order to create gear related quests.

[Atalai]

I don't see it that way. It appears that you still kling to the human knight trope that is associated with paladin, and see this class through this specific perspective, that paladin has to embody exact same values as the knights of the silver hands have.

Zandalari paladin would have slightly different deal and objectives, perspective and priorities.

Just from the top of my head possible and yet fitting concept:

Zandalari paladin would work to enfore will of the Loa and serve the High priests
they'd be fighting for the empire to protect it's role and might.
To fight off those who oppose the will of loa (like blood trolls) and those who threaten their legacy.
to be the elite protectors of God Emperor and loa temples located in Zuldazar






As you said Zandalaris are still trolls that value strength and ability to provide for themselves. Though, I wouldn't say that their abilities and rituals regarding taming beasts and such is a remark of survival but more a tradition. As Zandalari empire is till managing to hold up unlike others that sadly fell, it's those who lost their empires were forced to go on survival path, Darkspear in particular.

Zandalari still embrace order on top of everything, they're less of a tribe and more a priest/scholar caste. Darkpsears literally lost everything and were forced to fight for their right to be over and over again, they had to be cunning and resourceful. This is why Darkspears have so many shadow hunters.
It's the shadow hunters that have to go through really demanding rituals and this is why they're the most elite fighters among trolls.


Don't get me wrong I love each troll race and I'm happy to see more of them. But we all know that Zandalari are still different they managed to keep their culture intact, and to me survival trope is more associated with those that have nothing to come back to because they lost everything. I'm not saying that Zandalaris are like highborne that they're so stuck up with their goods that they forgot how it is to fight and sacrifice, thankfully not and I'm glad they continue those rituals that they have in order to forge their people into strong warriors.


So yeah bottom line is I don't see how paladin class would not fit Zandalari knowing their theme, their priorities, story. If anything it would beautifully wrap them, it would set a clear distinction between them and other troll tribes, and would enhance the feeling that Zandalaris are indeed highly priest/scholar society if they managed to get their own order of palates.

So I really hope Blizzard will reconsider it, this is the most unique and and the most fitting paladin combo Horde could ever get.

I have 2 paladins on alliance side. So it's not like I am saying that because I'm troll player, I understand the value paladin holds to Alliance. But again Zandalari prelates is such an exotic and unique approach to this class that I believe it would be huge waste to not have it.

- - - Updated - - -



Buy you guys keep on saying that paladin class is deeply in relation to knight of the silver hand legacy. But Knight of the silver hand originated from priests that started to fight. That was the case of Turalyon, that was the case with every big paladin figure, ending on Liadrin and recently Delas Moonfang.

So please make up your mind on it.

As for book - Zandalaris are scholar society and history keepers. So it's not that odd as you make it appear.

OK I got your point. Count you have convinced me. The only issue is with the flavor and naming changes/tunings you would need to properly introduce them as a paladin class in line with other races using it. Don't forget, their prelates, as you correctly mentioned, have a different source of power than other paladins and logically they have been developing as a caste for thousand of years being isolated from the other Azeroth. No way they can be named 'paladins' straight away. I never played a paladin and don't want to, but I believe a few of the typical abilities should be renamed too, to properly 'sync' Zandalari race flavor with paladin class flavor.

And the intent of culling belves population is hands down the one I completely support)

[Yarathir]

And yet Blizzard held that to such relevance that they did not think it was important enough to justify the existence of Playable paladins. It is almost as if their reasoning transcended raid mobs and more than 10 year old content created to purposely match the existent Player character classes of the time in order to create gear related quests.

The point is, we don't know yet.

Dark Iron Dwarves have no Shamans or Paladins, but do have Death Knights at the moment, yet they were said multiple times (even less than 2 weeks ago, iirc, that they have Paladins)

You seem to be appealing too much to "They didn't do it so I'm right." which is really weak ground, but okay.

[Traveler Voltin]

And yet Blizzard held that to such relevance that they did not think it was important enough to justify the existence of Playable paladins. It is almost as if their reasoning transcended raid mobs and more than 10 year old content created to purposely match the existent Player character classes of the time in order to create gear related quests.

No. Ion is pushing his agenda and doesn’t give a damn about lore

[Missed]

OK I got your point. Count you have convinced me. The only issue is with the flavor and naming changes/tunings you would need to properly introduce them as a paladin class in line with other races using it. Don't forget, their prelates, as you correctly mentioned, have a different source of power than other paladins and logically they have been developing as a caste for thousand of years being isolated from the other Azeroth. No way they can be named 'paladins' straight away. I never played a paladin and don't want to, but I believe a few of the typical abilities should be renamed too, to properly 'sync' Zandalari race flavor with paladin class flavor.

And the intent of culling belves population is hands down the one I completely support)

Unfortunately there isn't much we can do about that. Unless they start naming each ability for each class for each race individually we just have to use a bit of imagination.
As we skip past troll and dwarf priests using the same healing spells, past orcs and night elf warriors being taught the same skills, we might have to skip past the name of paladins abilities and remember it's more about faith than light.

[Faerillis]

To be honest I haven't played a Dwarf or Belf Paladin in a long time... but the Tauren still summon a Kodo and the Draenei summon an Elekk and if it's all the same spell why's it grabbing different animals for different cultures?

You could argue that there's no Elekk on Azeroth to ride so it grabs Horses, but since there's Horses why would it grab Kodo? Horse models scale to support Tauren, and Kodo shrink when Belves ride them. *shrug!*

Anywho. Point I'm making is: The spell should always summon the same thing if it's just the spell working. But it ain't just the spell working. The spell interacts with cultural norms to get Kodos and Elekks and Horses.

Sorry, yes you aren't wrong about that! I am on your side on this and was just correcting that

[Ramz]

OK I got your point. Count you have convinced me. The only issue is with the flavor and naming changes/tunings you would need to properly introduce them as a paladin class in line with other races using it. Don't forget, their prelates, as you correctly mentioned, have a different source of power than other paladins and logically they have been developing as a caste for thousand of years being isolated from the other Azeroth. No way they can be named 'paladins' straight away. I never played a paladin and don't want to, but I believe a few of the typical abilities should be renamed too, to properly 'sync' Zandalari race flavor with paladin class flavor.

And the intent of culling belves population is hands down the one I completely support)

Well ideally they would rename abilities and not just for paladin but various race/class combos.
It's odd for my Darkspear Bwonsamdi priestess to use spell called "archangel".

It's awkward for dwarves and space goats to use voodoo totems and hex which are clearly troll abilities.

I could go on and on about it, as was highly against class order hall concept and more about bringing race/class distinction.

One of my most desired combos to be explored was troll mage. I always wanted tribal approeach to this class, where trolls could use enchanted tribal paint with patterns that are in fact protecion charms, or have flying around tiki masks.

But yeah imagine my pain each time I had to go to Shaman order hall - once exclusive Horde class, - to be infested with alliance races >.>

I really hope that devs at some point will at least rename certain spells or at least give glyphs like they did for troll shamans (lots of love there) so specific combo is more complete with it's theme.

and yea one of the reasons why I want Loadins is to give a blow to belf population. That, with void elves on alliance, and nerf to arcane torrent would be a good timing to put down their population.

[Missed]

Well ideally they would rename abilities and not just for paladin but various race/class combos.
It's odd for my Darkspear Bwonsamdi priestess to use spell called "archangel".

It's awkward for dwarves and space goats to use voodoo totems and hex which are clearly troll abilities.

I could go on and on about it, as was highly against class order hall concept and more about bringing race/class distinction.

One of my most desired combos to be explored was troll mage. I always wanted tribal approeach to this class, where trolls could use enchanted tribal paint with patterns that are in fact protecion charms, or have flying around tiki masks.

But yeah imagine my pain each time I had to go to Shaman order hall - once exclusive Horde class, - to be infested with alliance races >.>

I really hope that devs at some point will at least rename certain spells or at least give glyphs like they did for troll shamans (lots of love there) so specific combo is more complete with it's theme.

and yea one of the reasons why I want Loadins is to give a blow to belf population. That, with void elves on alliance, and nerf to arcane torrent would be a good timing to put down their population.

Once a belf forever shamed though!