Burning of Teldressil Broadcast Text (Spoiler!!!)

[Mehrunes]

I doubt that would've worked as you envision it - had the Alliance came in with heavy mining equipment and started moving in on the Horde's established operation you'd wind up with pretty much the same outcome, one side attacks the other and it descends into an armed squabble. I also think that the power within Azerite (which Gallywix, Sylvanas, Shaw, and Anduin all seem to pick up on without testing or probing of any kind) makes its application something of a no-brainer - perhaps not an explicit arms race to begin with, but still safely inside the ballpark of "something I don't want the other side to get their hands on." That we know (in the future sense) that it's going to lead to things such as Azerite War Machines in Lordaeron is another thing altogether, but I'm pretty sure all the various faction leaders see the writing on the wall.

Why do they have to move in on the Horde's operation? Silithus is a big place. And still, the monopoly analogy doesn't really work. Because what the Alliance did is the equivalent of committing a terrorist attack against the monopolistic business. Which doesn't have much to do monopolies and everything to do with the Alliance seeing every Horde-related problem as a nail that needs to be hammered. It doesn't really work in terms of an arms race either. Because the Alliance did nothing to engage in it. The Horde already mined a lot of it. Alliance had enough time to get their stolen samples all the way to Stormwind. Chances are, Goblins did the same and transported a fair share of their mined Azerite to Orgrimmar. The Horde is the only engaged in the arms development while the Alliance smashes everything around them like Neanderthals, achieving nothing for their own arms development.

I think you're disposed to see the worst in the Alliance, much the same as your detractors here are disposed to see the worst in the Horde. The history of the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance is a long one, with many twists and turns to its narrative - who's to blame and who's at fault is more nuanced than "Horde struck first" or "Alliance fired the first shot." In the case of Silithus, it was just unavoidable - and no, that doesn't negate the fact that the Alliance was the aggressor in this scenario, but that fact doesn't really mean a whole lot in the big picture. Hostility is a given, the Alliance can't afford for the Horde to have sole access to some powerful and new energy source or raw material, and so they engage the Horde to ensure that that won't be the case. The two sides are already in conflict and already hostile and the Horde's kill-on-sight standing order for Alliance individuals speaks to that pretty firmly even if they don't outright fire the first shot. Silithus was a powder-keg waiting to blow, and it was the Alliance who finally lit the fuse in this case.

I see what the Alliance has to offer on this forum for the most part. For every Tauror and Graden there's a dozen geniuses that couldn't spot logic if it hit them in the face with an Azerite weapon and who are as selective with the data as Donald Trump. Ah, wait, you're talking about the faction. Silithus? Sure, the Horde was gearing for war. I'm not denying it. Though the reason the Horde is on edge may have something to do with the Alliance attacking them in Stormheim.

But was Undercity nuanced? Contrary to what the Alliance white-washers like to say, Varian knew of the rebellion before he got there. He got there with the specific intent of conquering Undercity, still a Horde capital, for the Alliance. Was the invasion of Barrens? Hard to say since we never got a reason for that. Perhaps Jaina actually monitoring the gung-ho part of her subjects in Northwatch it could have been avoided, but nuance is missing nontheless. Was Invasion of Ashenvale nuanced? Given how it was justified by the need for resources in the wake of the Cataclysm, yes. It was also avoidable. Night Elves could have not broken the trade treaty over bullshit and the Horde would have its resources and be busy with using those resources to rebuild Orgrimmar. At least they'd have postponed it while Garrosh was busy trying to fabricate some bullshit to rally the Horde.

Besides, this isn't me seeing the worst in the Alliance whatsoever. It's me seeing the Alliance for what it is. There's nothing inherently wrong with imperialism, just as there's nothing inherently wrong with Horde making weapons against a faction that keeps attacking them using abject idiocy as their casus belli. It's just a flawed faction, just like the Horde. Contrary to what the people portraying it as the result of Jesus' vacation on Azeroth try to claim.

she tried to murder him first, turnabout is fair play, they are already even.

She tried to murder him while they were at war. He tried to murder her while the factions were at peace (and were busy with the biggest Legion invasion).

Yup, should just let them abuse the blood of Azeroth while the planet is potentially dying instead of trying to heal the wound. As Magni said, we should not be mining this shit, we should be trying to heal the world.

Magni has no authority over the Horde. Neither does the Alliance. They are free to mine whatever they want.

ROFL. People are in denial.

You think if today North Korean will suddenly start boosting their nuclear bombs and stacking it rest of the world will be like - Oh good for them - and completely ignore them?

Haha yea sure...

The Alliance doesn't say anything about any weapons when they send the player to attack the Horde outpost. And if someone attacked North Korea over them making nuclear weapons (which they already do, but whatever), they'd be the aggressor. Preemptive aggression is still aggression.

Where you saw Alliance openly attack Horde in Silithus? All i saw is SI 7 doing combat recon because like you said Alliance doesn’t know what the Horde is doing with it. Nothing more.

Combat recon involving blowing up things in Horde outpost and killing Goblins that react to it. Nope, no attack here /s

No it's not, you still did it, you still deserve to be punished for your actions.

Yes it is, because duress is a thing.

Exactly. SI 7 doing its work. Gathering intelligence in combat environment. Heard about cold war?

And on those actions Sylvanas nuking civilian object...

Blowing things up isn't gathering intelligence.

No it's not. Silithus not a horde territirory. Example for this - Talambo incident in Chincha Islands War. Reaction to this kind of incidents are demand of apology and reparations. And if Alliance refuse compensation for "Silithus incident - than can be war.

Reaction to these kind of incidents is whatever the attacked side chooses. They are not obligated to talk things through. Your own previous example of UK preparing for what showcases that. Read your own sources. An attack on them, even outside of their territory (especially if it's still their outpost) is valid casus belli.

Alliance didn't wanted war. It wanted to stop Sylvanas's from gathering of highly dangerous material.

But it was Sylvanas who started war with nuking Teldressil.

And how does the Alliance try to stop it, given it has no authority to tell the Horde to stop it? Oh, right, by blowing things up in Horde camp and killing those who react to it.

Let's not forget that Sylvanas didn't disagree with the bombing of Theramore, only the timing of it. So what do you think she is gonna turn around and do with that Azurite?

Given how the Alliance has no way of knowing that, this is irrelevant. What the Alliance could easily learn though it that Forsaken involvement in the war plummeted after 4.0.

Let's not forget that she just attempted to enslave a group of beings for her own gain before Greymane stopper her (for selfish reasons, but stopped her none the less)...

Not only is Eyir not a group of beings, but she has nothing to do with the Alliance, so also irrelevant.

He also wasn't trying to kill her in Stormheim, if he was, he wouldn't have reached for and taken the lantern, he would have swiped her instead, he wanted her to live knowing he bested her.

Yeah, him yelling Sylvanas to face her executioner throughout the zone is him not trying to kill her. Or, alternatively, he went for the lantern because his previous blow did nothing to her and he was running out of options, so he went for the shiny thingy Sylvanas was using, hoping it's something important.

[Arrashi]

Man i went to sleep for few hours, and what the hell happened to this thread ?

[Aucald]

Why do they have to move in on the Horde's operation? Silithus is a big place. And still, the monopoly analogy doesn't really work. Because what the Alliance did is the equivalent of committing a terrorist attack against the monopolistic business. Which doesn't have much to do monopolies and everything to do with the Alliance seeing every Horde-related problem as a nail that needs to be hammered. It doesn't really work in terms of an arms race either. Because the Alliance did nothing to engage in it. The Horde already mined a lot of it. Alliance had enough time to get their stolen samples all the way to Stormwind. Chances are, Goblins did the same and transported a fair share of their mined Azerite to Orgrimmar. The Horde is the only engaged in the arms development while the Alliance smashes everything around them like Neanderthals, achieving nothing for their own arms development.

Silithus isn't big enough to contain the presence of the two main factions who are almost at war with one another - as soon one faction caught wind that there was even present (whether visible over the dunes or not) you'd get conflict from one side or the other. In our case, I've no doubt the Horde had cast a net of effective eminent domain over the entirety of Silithus and considered its deposits of Azerite "theirs" by dint of being the first with picks in the ground so to speak. As the quests demonstrate, the Orcish overseer of the operation could barely abide the presence of decidedly neutral Khadgar (deriding him simply as a "Human" with the implication he might be an Alliance spy) - the hostility between the Horde and Alliance had ratcheted to such a degree that even such a legendary figure was viewed with outright suspicion.

I see what the Alliance has to offer on this forum for the most part. For every Tauror and Graden there's a dozen geniuses that couldn't spot logic if it hit them in the face with an Azerite weapon and who are as selective with the data as Donald Trump. Ah, wait, you're talking about the faction. Silithus? Sure, the Horde was gearing for war. I'm not denying it. Though the reason the Horde is on edge may have something to do with the Alliance attacking them in Stormheim.

I put Stormheim firmly on the shoulders of Genn, and not the Alliance proper (just as I don't consider the Horde presence in the form of Sylvanas' fleet the Horde proper). Both individuals are there for their own reasons, after all - Sylvanas is no more working for the Horde than Genn is pursuing any kind of aim for the Alliance. Sylvanas wants to secure immortality or infinite resurrection for the Forsaken from Eyir, and Genn is there to revenge himself upon Sylvanas for the loss of his son. The Broken Shore is just a pretense for Genn, as we both know - one he doesn't even need to pursue vengeance but apparently uses to justify his selfishness. Genn is high enough in the Alliance command chain to requisition an airship and a regiment of mostly his own people to search Stormheim, just as Sylvanas is obviously high enough in the Horde ranks to do her own little side-operation without full Horde sanction.

But was Undercity nuanced? Contrary to what the Alliance white-washers like to say, Varian knew of the rebellion before he got there. He got there with the specific intent of conquering Undercity, still a Horde capital, for the Alliance. Was the invasion of Barrens? Hard to say since we never got a reason for that. Perhaps Jaina actually monitoring the gung-ho part of her subjects in Northwatch it could have been avoided, but nuance is missing nontheless. Was Invasion of Ashenvale nuanced? Given how it was justified by the need for resources in the wake of the Cataclysm, yes. It was also avoidable. Night Elves could have not broken the trade treaty over bullshit and the Horde would have its resources and be busy with using those resources to rebuild Orgrimmar. At least they'd have postponed it while Garrosh was busy trying to fabricate some bullshit to rally the Horde.

Besides, this isn't me seeing the worst in the Alliance whatsoever. It's me seeing the Alliance for what it is. There's nothing inherently wrong with imperialism, just as there's nothing inherently wrong with Horde making weapons against a faction that keeps attacking them using abject idiocy as their casus belli. It's just a flawed faction, just like the Horde. Contrary to what the people portraying it as the result of Jesus' vacation on Azeroth try to claim.

I think one aspect that gets glossed over by both "sides" in this argument is that both the Alliance and the Horde have spy networks - we see the Alliance one most visibly but the Horde also has one (Thrall had Human informants, and Baine like Cairne before him uses his Longwalkers much like Anduin uses SI:7). So yes, Varian probably had foreknowledge of the state of the Undercity before he got there, but did he attack the Undercity because he saw it was in a precarious state and thus vulnerable, or did he attack because he was outraged by the Wrath Gate incident? Knowing what we do about Varian the latter argument sounds much more probable to me - Varian isn't a schemer or a manipulator who would take advantage of such, he's as much of a hothead as Garrosh and prone to going off half-cocked.

As for the Barrens, the Alliance knew via their spies in the Horde of Garrosh's militaristic ambitions - they knew he wanted Kalimdor, and so they redoubled their presence in their holdings and set out to expand those holdings in the name of protection. From the Horde perspective this looks exactly like outright aggression (and it is, not to put too fine a point on it), but from the Alliance perspective it is simply protectionism for their people. It's the exact same argument, and the exact same outcome, of the Horde's justification of invading Ashenvale to take lumber that isn't theirs. Fair of the Night Elves to end their treaty or not, the Horde pushes into foreign territory out of need for resources, protecting itself but still being outright aggressive in doing so.

Neither the Horde nor the Alliance are pure, clean, or without flaw.

[Zulkhan]

And i didn't. Thanks for telling me the obvious though.

The obvious? You mean the obvious notion that someone starting the hostilities...well, start the hostilities? I mean, I'm glad you're member of that 0.1% party of special individuals but usually things work this way. Sure, we can argue all day whether the Horde had justified reasons for their paranoia much like people is arguing now for the Alliance, but none of this shit will change the indisputable fact that whoever brings aggression is responsible for it.

Okay, i'm done. It's late. You guys don't know what you're talking about. And...well...to save myself from ANOTHER unneeded (But wanted) Ban...

You're delusional.

It seems like that didn't work really well.

No it's not. Silithus not a horde territirory. Example for this - Talambo incident in Chincha Islands War. Reaction to this kind of incidents are demand of apology and reparations. And if Alliance refuse compensation for "Silithus incident - than can be war.

Again with this incident bullshit? It doesn't matter for shit that it happened into neutral territory, the Alliance sent spies to deliver hostile actions against an Horde mining operation. Apologies are asked and given towards genuine mistakes, to prevent misunderstandings from escalating into open war. And there's no fucking mistakes and misunderstanding concerning the BfA situation, the Alliance is (for its own reasons) wittingly sabotaging an Horde operation. It's no "incident" in any shape or form, is witting and deliberate hostility.

- - - Updated - - -

Man i went to sleep for few hours, and what the hell happened to this thread ?

The most "special" creatures participating in this thread left us to enter the ban room. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Infracted.

[Mehrunes]

Silithus isn't big enough to contain the presence of the two main factions who are almost at war with one another - as soon one faction caught wind that there was even present (whether visible over the dunes or not) you'd get conflict from one side or the other. In our case, I've no doubt the Horde had cast a net of effective eminent domain over the entirety of Silithus and considered its deposits of Azerite "theirs" by dint of being the first with picks in the ground so to speak. As the quests demonstrate, the Orcish overseer of the operation could barely abide the presence of decidedly neutral Khadgar (deriding him simply as a "Human" with the implication he might be an Alliance spy) - the hostility between the Horde and Alliance had ratcheted to such a degree that even such a legendary figure was viewed with outright suspicion.

The Horde was hidden for quote some time. Besides, even if the Horde found out, they wouldn't find out immediately either. Which would allow the Alliance to actually catch up a bit in the Azerite race. Attacking the Horde head on (even before they find out what the Horde is going to use it on) isn't really rational.

I put Stormheim firmly on the shoulders of Genn, and not the Alliance proper (just as I don't consider the Horde presence in the form of Sylvanas' fleet the Horde proper). Both individuals are there for their own reasons, after all - Sylvanas is no more working for the Horde than Genn is pursuing any kind of aim for the Alliance. Sylvanas wants to secure immortality or infinite resurrection for the Forsaken from Eyir, and Genn is there to revenge himself upon Sylvanas for the loss of his son. The Broken Shore is just a pretense for Genn, as we both know - one he doesn't even need to pursue vengeance but apparently uses to justify his selfishness. Genn is high enough in the Alliance command chain to requisition an airship and a regiment of mostly his own people to search Stormheim, just as Sylvanas is obviously high enough in the Horde ranks to do her own little side-operation without full Horde sanction.

Genn was acting on Anduin's orders. He bent the shit out of these orders, but didn't outright break them. That's on Anduin giving a hothead like Genn too much flexibility. And Sylvanas gives almost all of her resources for the disposal of the player she tasks with finding the Aegis. She only takes one ship. Besides, her doing her own thing is irrelevant to Horde-Alliance relations when she's pursuing a neutral person.

I think one aspect that gets glossed over by both "sides" in this argument is that both the Alliance and the Horde have spy networks - we see the Alliance one most visibly but the Horde also has one (Thrall had Human informants, and Baine like Cairne before him uses his Longwalkers much like Anduin uses SI:7). So yes, Varian probably had foreknowledge of the state of the Undercity before he got there, but did he attack the Undercity because he saw it was in a precarious state and thus vulnerable, or did he attack because he was outraged by the Wrath Gate incident? Knowing what we do about Varian the latter argument sounds much more probable to me - Varian isn't a schemer or a manipulator who would take advantage of such, he's as much of a hothead as Garrosh and prone to going off half-cocked.

It's not "probably". Jaina and the Alliance player get this information directly from Sylvanas and Thrall earlier in the questline. Varian explicitly says the Horde temporarily losing Undercity to rebels is an opportunity to capture it. Of course he wanted Putress' head on a spike, but he was trying to kill two birds with one stone.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:A_Royal_Coup

As for the Barrens, the Alliance knew via their spies in the Horde of Garrosh's militaristic ambitions - they knew he wanted Kalimdor, and so they redoubled their presence in their holdings and set out to expand those holdings in the name of protection. From the Horde perspective this looks exactly like outright aggression (and it is, not to put too fine a point on it), but from the Alliance perspective it is simply protectionism for their people. It's the exact same argument, and the exact same outcome, of the Horde's justification of invading Ashenvale to take lumber that isn't theirs. Fair of the Night Elves to end their treaty or not, the Horde pushes into foreign territory out of need for resources, protecting itself but still being outright aggressive in doing so.

Didn't Garrosh plan the invasion only after the Cataclysm because the needed resources because of it? Pretty sure before Cataclysm he was just busy with Cairne and his delusions. Also, if Night Elves obligated themselves to provide lumber to the Horde, the lumber is Horde's (well, maybe not the specific trees they ended up cutting down), because that's how obligations work. And obligations ought to be fulfilled, that's the #1 rule of international law. Breaking a trade treaty of this level is a valid casus belli on top of that.

[Aucald]

The Horde was hidden for quote some time. Besides, even if the Horde found out, they wouldn't find out immediately either. Which would allow the Alliance to actually catch up a bit in the Azerite race. Attacking the Horde head on (even before they find out what the Horde is going to use it on) isn't really rational.

I agree that it wasn't really rational - but conflict is rarely rational, people react emotionally to things and before you know it both parties are at crossed swords. The Alliance's hostile moves weren't about just "catching up" in the Azerite race, it was about strategically denying the Horde their source of Azerite as well. In a narrative sense this opens the doors to the Seething Shore battleground that is upcoming, as new sources of Azerite are found it becomes an increasingly pitched contest to see which faction will have access. Neither the Horde nor the Alliance has any interest in sharing access to Azerite with the other side.

Genn was acting on Anduin's orders. He bent the shit out of these orders, but didn't outright break them. That's on Anduin giving a hothead like Genn too much flexibility. And Sylvanas gives almost all of her resources for the disposal of the player she tasks with finding the Aegis. She only takes one ship. Besides, her doing her own thing is irrelevant to Horde-Alliance relations when she's pursuing a neutral person.

Genn's orders were to watch the Horde assembly in Stormheim (as per the quest Making the Rounds), with orders to only engage if it proved necessary. Considering that Genn and presumably Rogers fired on the Forsaken without provocation I would say Genn broke those orders pretty much in half. I agree that Anduin probably entrusted the wrong general in this matter, but he probably couldn't have stopped Genn from going in any case. I'm also of a mind that Sylvanas didn't want help with what she was doing probably because she didn't want anyone (including her own people) to know what she was up to. She even sends Nathanos away, and he only wished to accompany her in his role as her personal champion. Whether she wants proceed alone for plausible deniability or for some other nefarious reason remains to be seen.

It's not "probably". Jaina and the Alliance player get this information directly from Sylvanas and Thrall earlier in the questline. Varian explicitly says the Horde temporarily losing Undercity to rebels is an opportunity to capture it. Of course he wanted Putress' head on a spike, but he was trying to kill two birds with one stone.

The former bird (Putress) is more important to Varian than the latter (reclaiming Lordaeron), he makes that much clear in his spiel. The talk of reclaiming Lordaeron is driven both by his anger due to the Wrath Gate and his own experiences at the hands of the Horde, where he spent some time as a gladiator slave and so forth. In Varian's mind there's no scheming or politicking - it's just white-hot rage for Putress, the Forsaken, and the Horde in general. I'm not saying that it justifies anything, just that that's the perspective of Varian Wrynn at the time.

Didn't Garrosh plan the invasion only after the Cataclysm because the needed resources because of it? Pretty sure before Cataclysm he was just busy with Cairne and his delusions. Also, if Night Elves obligated themselves to provide lumber to the Horde, the lumber is Horde's (well, maybe not the specific trees they ended up cutting down), because that's how obligations work. And obligations ought to be fulfilled, that's the #1 rule of international law. Breaking a trade treaty of this level is a valid casus belli on top of that.

Garrosh ascended to Warchief on pretty much the eve of the Cataclysm as it was, but as of "Heart of War" he always viewed Thrall's austerity principles with barely-concealed disdain. In Garrosh's eyes the majority of Kalimdor should by all rights belong to the Horde - and I would say without much reservation that his choice of Ashenvale for lumber represented his ambitions (both to address the Night Elves' rescinding of the trade agreement and to demonstrate the strength of the Horde under his leadership). There were, after all, other sources of lumber that could feed the Horde's needs - Azshara was and is full of lumber that's gone mostly untapped, and Dustwallow Marsh is also only a zone over and is full of untapped lumber itself. Garrosh chose Ashenvale for military and political reasons that had little to do with just easy access to lumber. Breaking a trade agreement also isn't itself a cause for war - it can lead to that, sure, but there are plenty of trade agreements that have been rescinded without two sides coming to blows over them.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Silithus is not even close to being the spark that sets off the war. The upcoming battleground might be though.

The Burning of Teldrassil is the kindling.
The Battle for Lordaeron is the embers of resentment
The spark is the Battle for Azeroth

[frogger237]

Why do they have to move in on the Horde's operation? Silithus is a big place. And still, the monopoly analogy doesn't really work. Because what the Alliance did is the equivalent of committing a terrorist attack against the monopolistic business. Which doesn't have much to do monopolies and everything to do with the Alliance seeing every Horde-related problem as a nail that needs to be hammered. It doesn't really work in terms of an arms race either. Because the Alliance did nothing to engage in it. The Horde already mined a lot of it. Alliance had enough time to get their stolen samples all the way to Stormwind. Chances are, Goblins did the same and transported a fair share of their mined Azerite to Orgrimmar. The Horde is the only engaged in the arms development while the Alliance smashes everything around them like Neanderthals, achieving nothing for their own arms development.

In case you haven't done the Silithus quests:

Blightcaller tells you to kill any Alliance you see when he tells you to go to Silithus. And then you have a quest to kill Alliance spies who have not attacked anyone yet they are just there seeing whats going on. The Alliance quest doesn't tell you to kill anyone, if the Alliance player does kill anyone it was of their own volition and the quest to blow up shredders specifically asks you to destroy inactive ones without people in em.

Alliance are attacked for just being there because the Horde don't want the Alliance to know whats going on.

[Friendlyimmolation]

In case you haven't done the Silithus quests:



Alliance are attacked for just being there because the Horde don't want the Alliance to know whats going on.

The Alliance jump out at you and say things like they will enjoy killing you etc, I can't possible see how the Alliance can be innocent in this.

[frogger237]

The Alliance jump out at you and say things like they will enjoy killing you etc, I can't possible see how the Alliance can be innocent in this.

They are responding to being attacked. Play both factions you will see only one tells you to actually murder the other faction.

[Arrashi]

They are responding to being attacked. Play both factions you will see only one tells you to actually murder the other faction.

You mean alliance targeting goblin workers ? aka you know civilians ?

[Mehrunes]

In case you haven't done the Silithus quests:

Alliance are attacked for just being there because the Horde don't want the Alliance to know whats going on.

I have done the Silithus quests. Words aren't an attack. Nathanos' orders are as much of an attack as Sylvanas' plan to invade Stormwind. Words/plans aren't actual actions. Before the Alliance player has an opportunity to fulfill Nathanos' orders the Alliance already attacked the Horde.

[frogger237]

You mean alliance targeting goblin workers ? aka you know civilians ?

Alliance are tasked with grabbing the Azerite and blowing up inactive goblin mechs meaning no people inside em.

I have done the Silithus quests. Words aren't an attack. Nathanos' orders are as much of an attack as Sylvanas' plan to invade Stormwind. Words/plans aren't actual actions. Before the Alliance player has an opportunity to fulfill Nathanos' orders the Alliance already attacked the Horde.

You are so delusional lol. Alliance did not attack first. All Horde have a kill on site order for the Alliance which is why they only used spies until the player character gets there.

[Mehrunes]

Alliance are tasked with grabbing the Azerite and blowing up inactive goblin mechs meaning no people inside em.

Which is still an attack.

You are so delusional lol. Alliance did not attack first. All Horde have a kill on site order for the Alliance which is why they only used spies until the player character gets there.

Yeah, I'm delusional because you can't comprehend the difference between an order to do something and actually doing something. Sure ting mon. And invasion of Stormwind is the first thing that happens in the war because Sylvanas said she wants to do it.

[Deleted]

I said I'd do anything to avenge Teldrassil. Pretending to be a troll, evidently, is anything. Here's my report.
Can you believe some people think trolls and night elves are related? This has been an awful experience. Here's my report.
I will not fail the Alliance. Even if I had to sit in mud for three days to get this. Please, take my report.
Let no one say I gave nothing for the war effort. Here's my report.

Wait, hold on. If the whole sequence of events including talks of wisps dispersing, Felwood smuggling and relocating horde troops is told in a form of a report from that poor NE fellow. And he records it after he swore to avenge Teldrassil. Then it means all of it happened AFTER Burning of Teldrassil. Does it make sense or am i missing something ?

[Duckz0rs]

Alliance are tasked with grabbing the Azerite and blowing up inactive goblin mechs meaning no people inside em.



You are so delusional lol. Alliance did not attack first. All Horde have a kill on site order for the Alliance which is why they only used spies until the player character gets there.

The entire Silithus thing seems very minor, until you put it into a real-world perspective. Imagine if, in the middle of the cold war, around the cuban missile crisis, the US found soviet spies (or vice versa) in their nuclear research facilities. Not just spies, but spies actively stealing, blowing up equipment and killing employees. That sure as hell would've been seen as an active assault, and give very clear grounds for a declaration of war. In such a case the guards of said nuclear facility would absolutely be ordered to shoot to kill as well and be well within their rights to do so.

It's actually, for once, a sort of interesting starting point (if we don't count Stormheim, where Genn attacked the Forsaken fleet which, to his knowledge at that point, was trying to retrieve the Aegis of Aggramar) for the war. Because it's subtle and comparatively realistic compared to the other wars in WC.

[frogger237]

Which is still an attack.




Yeah, I'm delusional because you can't comprehend the difference between an order to do something and actually doing something. Sure ting mon. And invasion of Stormwind is the first thing that happens in the war because Sylvanas said she wants to do it.

Yeah so if the leader of a country orders its military to slaughter a bunch of people in a neighboring country it "doesn't count" until the soldiers act on it and when they do its only the soldiers that are to blame. And if they refuse the order the leader is apparently blameless and a good guy in your scenario.

You are too obsessed with the Horde dude. The fact of the matter is Blightcaller low key threatens the player and then orders them to kill Alliance players while the Alliance does neither. My Demon Hunter would have ordered all Demon Hunters out of the Horde and gone neutral when he does that had this been real life.

Silithus Isn't even Horde territory so those Alliance agents have every right to be there. And fact of the matter is they only have orders to defend themselves if discovered. Its the player character is the only one who has the agency to deal with it how they see fit. Horde have literal kill on site orders for the Alliance.

The entire Silithus thing seems very minor, until you put it into a real-world perspective. Imagine if, in the middle of the cold war, around the cuban missile crisis, the US found soviet spies (or vice versa) in their nuclear research facilities. Not just spies, but spies actively stealing, blowing up equipment and killing employees. That sure as hell would've been seen as an active assault, and give very clear grounds for a declaration of war. In such a case the guards of said nuclear facility would absolutely be ordered to shoot to kill as well and be well within their rights to do so.

It's actually, for once, a sort of interesting starting point (if we don't count Stormheim, where Genn attacked the Forsaken fleet which, to his knowledge at that point, was trying to retrieve the Aegis of Aggramar) for the war. Because it's subtle and comparatively realistic compared to the other wars in WC.

Yeah you are kinda right but Silithus isn't the Territory of the Horde or Alliance.

[steelballfc]

But it doesn't change the fact that alliance strikes first and provekes conflict.

don't fight, let the alliance have their cake and eat it too

[Mehrunes]

don't fight, let the alliance have their cake and eat it too

So they can choke on it to death?

[steelballfc]

Your argumentative prowess is indeed infinite.

the lord has given up on us

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So they can choke on it to death?

i wish, but sadly it will not happen, blizzard has made the Horde lore so dumb i can't even fight anymore.

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So the Alliance was the aggressor in Ashran? Good to know.

#alliance_Was_a_mistake