Active shooter situation at Florida high school, at least 20 injured so far

[PhaelixWW]

let me know how that AR-15 cooking class goes for you.

In other news, how about those Olympic athletes competing in the biathlon?

[Draco-Onis]

In other news, how about those Olympic athletes competing in the biathlon?

Is your argument that guns were created for sports entertainment? oh yeah bullets aren't meant to do harm at all

[Kiri]

if you're point was that the "harm" you're intending to describe is all bad, I don't think I helped because not all harm is bad. causing harm on bad people is good and most americans would agree.

I don't think I'll ever own a gun, the thought of holding one and firing isn't something I personally want to experience or even enjoy. And though I personally would prefer no one in my country owns one besides hunting, I understand and weigh the pros against the cons. For every time there is someone who is killed in one of these shootings, there is more who are killed in home invasions. There are more who are killed invading homes and there are more people saved in home invasions thanks to guns.

Because of that, I refuse to get emotional over a handful of deaths in a single moment because in the bigger picture, there are far...far more home invasions that guns have saved people and taken the lives of bad people. Then there's the home invasions where guns could have saved lives if they were owned.

Those are some statements that you will have to back up with numbers, if you want to say that people are just emotional over a handful of deaths and not seeing the bigger picture.
How many home invasions were averted due to lax gun laws (defensive shootings have to be reported, after all)?
How many home invasions with deadly outcomes would have been averted if the invaded people had had guns?
Of those, how many home invasions were only possible due to lax gun laws?
Only if you can supply those numbers can you really make the point you want to make. Without them, that is just a random statement built on gut-feeling.

[PhaelixWW]

Self-defense is still harm. Something created for self-defense is made to harm. I don't understand why that's a complicated concept to you.

Because it's wrong. Most self-defense occurs without any harm on either side. But since you clearly missed the part where I already addressed that subject, here you go:

And just so we're clear, self-defense does not typically imply harm, as firearms are used exponentially more as a deterrent than as a tool to harm in defensive use. That's the same way that having a dog in part to protect you or your home is not the same as having that dog's sole purpose to harm people.

[Grokresh]

The best part is people claiming guns arent made to kill only, but to deter. Good logic for a three years old. I mean nuclear weapon are clearly made to not destroy then!... deter is a side effect of something, not what its made for. The only reason gun could deter is because ITS MADE TO KILL. Paper sheet doesent deter anything, because its not made to kill.

Gun defense has literally no personal use. If someone wanted you dead, they will shoot you before you even know someone wants to kill you. The second amendement is about militia against the federal government either way, idiots just keeps warping it over time. Point is, its useless now. Your shitty guns aint stopping the federal government if it wanted it would flatten your home with a tank or bomb and theres nothing your shitty guns can do about it. This is not 1787 anymore.

But hey what do i care, you can keep your shitty laws and your school shooting every week. My loved ones arent part of that degenerate society and are unlikely to ever be shot by anyone.

As primitive as the Americans are about things these days I do still think it makes sense to care personal intrest or not, the poor people who have died didn't deserve to go like that and didn't bring it on themselves, just because some of them are horrible people it doesn't mean they all are. I find it unbareable to imagine the level of fear they must of felt in their last moments, I do agree that it makes me so greatful to live in a better country.

[Draco-Onis]

Because it's wrong. Most self-defense occurs without any harm on either side. But since you clearly missed the part where I already addressed that subject, here you go:

A dog and a gun are the same thing how could I miss that dogs have no other purposes /facepalm

I think you are arguing just for the sake of it.

[PhaelixWW]

Is your argument that guns were created for sports entertainment? oh yeah bullets aren't meant to do harm at all

My argument has nothing to do with why a thing was originally created. It only has to do with how the thing is actually used.

[Jofe]

While I agree that maybe some additional laws might have helped prevent this (there's the whole "mentally ill people can buy guns in Florida" thing that people say, but apparently they actually can't and the law says

"Fla. Stat. Ann. §§ 790.065. Upon receipt of a request for a criminal history record check, the Department of Law Enforcement shall, during the licensee’s call or by return call forthwith: Review any records available to determine if the potential buyer or transferee: Has been adjudicated mentally defective or has been committed to a mental institution by a court, and as a result is prohibited by state or federal law from purchasing a firearm. Fla. Stat. Ann. § 790.06. "

but since the guy was never in a mental institute or was properly diagnosed at the time it doesn't really matter) there's the issue that a lot of people saw this coming and yet no one did anything.

There's the thing that apparently the school administration knew he was dangerous and he wasn't allowed to enter the school if he had a bag, which means that they knew that if he had a bag with him most probably he was carrying a weapon. There's that now well known youtube comment that someone reported to the FBI and while it's true that if the FBI stopped to check every threatening youtube comment they wouldn't do anything else, it seems like that is only the most popular case, various people reported him on multiple occasions and no one stopped to check. As more is revealed this feels more like that other shooter where someone dropped the ball and didn't add the dishonorable discharge and domestic violence charges to a database and so he wasn't barred from buying weapons despite every law saying that he should have been. A case in which a little more attention would have prevented the event.

[Draco-Onis]

My argument has nothing to do with why a thing was originally created. It only has to do with how the thing is actually used.

Again it's pretty obvious we are never going to agree you are like the Romans arguing that gladiator games are great entertainment nothing else.

[PhaelixWW]

A dog and a gun are the same thing how could I miss that dogs have no other purposes /facepalm

I think you are arguing just for the sake of it.

If you want "arguing for the sake of it", then look at your wild attempt to make it sound like I'm saying that a dog and a gun are the same thing. That's what we call a "strawman" argument.

Only with a very weird viewpoint of the world can you take a comparison of one small aspect of dog ownership and firearm ownership and transmute that into "dogs = guns".

[Deleted]

Leftists like to tell us that our thoughts and prayers are meaningless. That we need to take some "common sense action".

Here's the conservative suggestion: Arm the teachers to protect their flock. If the teachers of every classroom were armed and trained with a gun they would not be needing any thoughts or prayers. They would be survivors rather than victims. That is our common sense solution. One that offers an extra layer of security while totally maintaining our liberty.

But Leftists reject that. Leftists don't want common sense solutions for our free society. Leftists want gun control. Leftists want people control.

We're dug in deep and always ready to fight for our liberty. The Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[PhaelixWW]

Again it's pretty obvious we are never going to agree you are like the Romans arguing that gladiator games are great entertainment nothing else.

And another strawman.

If you want to point fingers at people being harmed for sport, try looking at football, hockey, boxing... Marksmanship sports, on the other hand, have nothing to do with people being harmed.

I definitely don't support the harming of innocents, which is already against the law.

[kail]

It's a potential deterrent because of one of its several purposes. Which is also not its most common purpose.

Sport and harm. What other of the "several" purposes exist for a firearm?

[Deleted]

Sport and harm. What other of the "several" purposes exist for a firearm?

Self defense. Hunting. Liberty and justice for all.

[Torgent]

Self defense. Hunting. Liberty and justice for all.

self defense - harm or threat of harm
hunting - harm
liberty and justice for all - nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -

My argument has nothing to do with why a thing was originally created. It only has to do with how the thing is actually used.

I forgot that guns aren't actually used for harming people. This story is probably fake then.

[Gutpile]

"There is nothing we can do" says only nation where it happens regularly.

Golly, you're so clever! How did you come up with that?

[minteK917]

Golly, you're so clever! How did you come up with that?

I mean its not hard, he just had to look at this threat and it sums it up.

[MikeBogina]

Those are some statements that you will have to back up with numbers, if you want to say that people are just emotional over a handful of deaths and not seeing the bigger picture.
How many home invasions were averted due to lax gun laws (defensive shootings have to be reported, after all)?

This is as far as you got before you turned your argument into a strawman. No one can determine how many deadly outcomes would have been averted. No one can determine how many were possible due to lax gun laws.

For actual statistics, I took this info from http://www.creditdonkey.com/home-inv...tatistics.html

How many home invasions are there in the U.S.?
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, 1.03 million home invasions occur each year.

How many home invasions were stopped by guns?
The government doesn't put a lot of emphasis on defensive gun use. Estimates show that 500,000 to 3 million defensive gun uses occur each year.

How many homes are robbed each year?
The DOJ reported 1 million burglaries occurred with people in the home. 27% of them became victim of a violent crime.

How many times do victims use a gun to scare their offender?
A shocking 2.5 million victims use a gun to scare their offender. That's almost 5 law-abiding citizens a minute. However, victims only shoot their offender 8% of the time. They mostly use the firearm to scare their offender away.

What percentage of robberies involve weapons?
The DOJ reported the use of weapons in a majority of robberies. 41% of robberies involved firearms and 7.8% included knives or other cutting devices. In addition, 42.5% used strong-arm tactics, whether verbal or physical.

You can take this information and give it whatever spin you want, your opinions don't matter, only facts do.

[Deleted]

self defense - harm or threat of harm
hunting - harm
liberty and justice for all - nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -



I forgot that guns aren't actually used for harming people. This story is probably fake then.

Well I'm glad that you're open about what leftists truly believe. Liberty and justice for all is nonsense to you. To most Americans, and to most gun owners, it is not. We will always protect ourselves from criminals and tyrants alike.

[Torgent]

Well I'm glad that you're open about what leftists truly believe. Liberty and justice for all is nonsense to you. To most Americans, and to most gun owners, it is not. We will always protect ourselves from criminals and tyrants alike.

Liberty and justice for all has no relation to guns, you threw that in because you want to play patriot.