Tax plan was popular amongst the electorate?
How about the wall?
How about the fed crackdown on medicinal marijuana?
How about the horrifying situation at the justice department that already has like 5 threads and I don't want to get into here?
How about the transgender ban in the military?
How about the travel ban?
How about rescinding DACA?
How about repealing Obama-era regulations on mentally incompetent people purchasing firearms (the DAY BEFORE the Parkland shooting, I might add)?
How about the continual flood of hilariously unqualified appointees?
How about the continual flood of White House staffers being fired or resigning in disgrace?
How about the pardoning of former Sheriff Joe Arpaio?
Care to list anything he has done that has better than 50% support amongst all Americans? Preferably with sources?
No, because I'm not here to do your research for you, or argue with people who are clearly not objective. I'll pass. Think what you want to think; it doesn't affect me.
I mean, just the assertion alone that, people are upset because they are paying less taxes, shows you are not objective at all.
Many people are not paying less taxes, and I am talking about poll numbers here.
The tax plan was historically unpopular amongst the electorate, numerous polls were circulated around this very forum that indicated as much.
I am asking for one, literally ONE thing he has actually done that polled better than 50% against Americans at large. I'm not asking you to do any research for me, I'm asking you to back up this claim:I'm not even asking you to back up the "Most of what he is doing" bit, I will settle for "Anything he is doing".
And I am insulted that you would outright state I am not objective. I follow the facts. I have opinions on how things ought to be, but I have no problem admitting I am wrong when presented with evidence to the contrary.
Exactly. They'll just keep pushing that agenda, too, because it continues to work and get them elected into office. I hope someday, down the road (i.e. 100+ years), we'll have moved past this and into some kind of Eutopian Humanity for All kind of place. But I'm thinking it will take longer, if it happens at all.
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I see you're still the biggest fan of your own opinion. Even when you just decide to lie.
In the real world, what Trump is doing is IN FACT very unpopular. But you've never let reality slow down your narrative - not surprised that hasn't changed. ROFL.
Nowhere in my post did I express an opinion as to whether or not anyone liked what Trump's administration is doing. That isn't the point of my post, and presumably anyone who did fall under the scope of the phenomenon I'm discussing could arguably be said to "like" Trump's policies because they align with the precise misconceptions I'm alluding to. False notions, oft repeated, such as:
Immigrants are criminals (x x x) and steal jobs (x x)
Tax cuts create jobs & economic growth (x x)
Donald Trump is a good businessman (x x)
This is an interesting study from the American Psychological Association in 2015 which demonstrates that having access to, and even prior knowledge of correct information does not protect someone from subconsciously accepting false information they've become fluent with. It explains the type of studies they do to demonstrate this effect so I wont spend a lot of time on it, but it's a good read and it absolutely exists.
Occam's Razor is a direction to pursue further study, not a universally-applicable law of definitive answers. Further, the notion that "just [being] happy with the decisions being made" does not involve a fat layer of "subconscious gobbledygook" reveals that you don't really have a basis of understanding about human decision-making.
American partisanship has reached a point where indisputable facts are now up for political debate. I'm trying to explain how a large segment of the population can believe a collection of ideas so easily disproven, because Trump's campaign seems to have figured it out and pretty handily tapped into it (to the surprise and horror of many).
Here he is a again, ladies and gentlemen. He says that...
But as soon as he is challenged to give sources and evidence if that is in fact true he hides and tells someone else to do it. After all if he tried to show evidence he wouldn't find it because it doesn't exist, so he has to back peddle and deflect.Most of what Trump is actually doing, rather than saying, IS IN FACT popular.
Only 29% approved the tax plan. You're right that's really popular, so much so that it was more popular than Manimal.I mean, just the assertion alone that, people are upset because they are paying less taxes, shows you are not objective at all.
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Don't try with him, you'd have a better chance getting your shadow to make you lasagna then getting him to admit he's wrong.
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Could you be more condescending? First you make wild, sweeping claims based in psuedo science and conspiracy theory, now you move on to more nonsense.
1. First of all, you are conflating legal and illegal immigration, in an effort to get more boo hoos.
2. Over 30% of the federal prison population is comprised of illegal immigrants. It's pretty safe to say, that illegal immigrants do not comprise 30% of the population. Even if your premise were true though, it doesn't matter. If one criminal can be deported and another can't, that is no reason to not deport the one who can. The issue is not the amount of crime, the issue is it's crime that doesn't need to happen, because they should not be here anyway. So every single crime an illegal commits, is a crime that didn't need to happen.
3. Illegal immigrants DO cost us money. They DO use more resources than they pay in taxes. FYI, that is also true of every citizen, save the ultra wealthy.
3. Illegal immigrants DO steal jobs. These are just facts, regardless if you like them or not. For example, they completely dominate the residential housing construction trades. Are you suggesting, that if there were no illegals, that Americans would not build houses? REALLY? Where did we get the houses we had before this problem got out of hand? MAGIC?
4. Taking money out of the economy harms the economy. You will not find any reputable economist who will deny that. Reputable does NOT include Paul Krugman, who is regularly mocked by all of his peers for being a shill who will say anything to support Democrats.
5. You are arguing from the position of other people have their facts wrong, instead of other people disagree, which makes you a jerk. It makes you even more of a jerk, when you clearly show that YOU do not have your facts straight.
6. Donald Trump is a lot of things, but his business acumen has literally nothing to do with his current day job.
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The people who are not paying less taxes, are the literally nobody. The personal income tax cuts, lowered taxes for 79% of Americans (the bottom 79%). The corporate tax cuts impact the other 21%, who almost surely hold some investments in stocks (as all responsible people do). So, literally every American is paying less taxes next year. These are facts. These are not opinions.
You don't need a poll to know that humans like money, and they like having more of it than they had before. The only reason the bill polled low before being passed, is because the Mediacrat Party lied about it so much. Now that people are seeing the truth, things have shifted.
I just can't get past the notion, that someone actually thinks people hate getting their taxes cut. That just amazes me...
Your later part is just argumentative and silly. If you think Americans oppose everything Trump wants to do, how in the fuck exactly do you think he got elected? I mean, talk about not seeing the forest for the trees...
Cutting taxes is always popular, in every nation, in every time period, always.
Solving the illegal immigration problem, once and for all, is WILDLY popular. People don't want this. They don't want to be over run by illegals. They don't necessarily want them to leave, but they absolutely want them to stop coming. It's a numbers thing. Reagan gave amnesty to like 1.5 million illegals. Since then, some estimates say there are as many as 30 million here now. The Democrat solution, is to do nothing, and give them all amnesty. How many will there be 30 years from now, if we do THAT? Half a billion? More?
I will restate, yes, you are not objective. You are believing in fantasy land facts. I'm sorry if that insults you, but that is just like, my opinion, man...
Pot, kettle.
The 'Keep America White' crowd don't tend to discriminate between the two, why should we.1. First of all, you are conflating legal and illegal immigration, in an effort to get more boo hoos.
Liar, liar, pants on fire2. Over 30% of the federal prison population is comprised of illegal immigrants. It's pretty safe to say, that illegal immigrants do not comprise 30% of the population. Even if your premise were true though, it doesn't matter. If one criminal can be deported and another can't, that is no reason to not deport the one who can. The issue is not the amount of crime, the issue is it's crime that doesn't need to happen, because they should not be here anyway. So every single crime an illegal commits, is a crime that didn't need to happen.
"According to the chart, 58 percent (43,479) of the 74,911 individuals that year were U.S. citizens. Otherwise, the chart notes 27,505 "illegal" residents sent to prison plus 3,017 foreigners living here with legal permission, 206 people under extradition and 704 individuals with unknown statuses.
Of the "illegal" residents, 20,333 — 74 percent of them — were primarily sentenced for immigration violations, not violent crimes, according to the chart. Nine unauthorized immigrants were primarily convicted of murder, 50 of assault, 19 of sexual abuse, the chart shows."
Do they use more than American citizens of equivalent income? No?3. Illegal immigrants DO cost us money. They DO use more resources than they pay in taxes. FYI, that is also true of every citizen, save the ultra wealthy.
If nobody except the ultra wealthy is a "net contributor" all it does is render that argument moot, not disputes it.
Yes, that's precisely what we are suggesting. Americans do not want to perform that work, and any time there is a surge in deportations there tends to be labor shortages in those industries.3. Illegal immigrants DO steal jobs. These are just facts, regardless if you like them or not. For example, they completely dominate the residential housing construction trades. Are you suggesting, that if there were no illegals, that Americans would not build houses? REALLY? Where did we get the houses we had before this problem got out of hand? MAGIC?
Man, it's almost as if the American economy has changed over time, with the cost labor and expectations of working conditions are much higher than they used to be. Shocker.
Good thing we don't use commodity money and can simply adjust the money supply to compensate.4. Taking money out of the economy harms the economy. You will not find any reputable economist who will deny that. Reputable does NOT include Paul Krugman, who is regularly mocked by all of his peers for being a shill who will say anything to support Democrats.
Pot, kettle. Part deux.5. You are arguing from the position of other people have their facts wrong, instead of other people disagree, which makes you a jerk. It makes you even more of a jerk, when you clearly show that YOU do not have your facts straight.
Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
Using tax dollars to provide social services to poor people does not take money out of the economy. It moves money to a different part of the economy, a part of the economy where the velocity of money is FAR higher. More money in poor communities = more poor people can afford to buy things = poor people buy things = businesses earn profits from sales.
I am personally paying a higher effective tax rate. I am a 30 year old married white male with two children in preschool. My wife and I both work full time jobs. We make about $75k annually between us, about 27% higher than the US median household income of $59k. Presumably there are other people in a similar situation.
I am not asking for a poll about whether people like money, or like paying less taxes, or anything along those lines. I am asking for a poll which indicates popular support for ANY action Trump has taken since president.
I actually didn't want this tax cut, done this way, even if it WOULD HAVE saved me money. The cuts to programs and the increase in the debt that my children will be saddled with is not worth the small temporary savings right now.
Trump was elected without a popular mandate, FYI. He lost the popular vote, by several million. He won by razor thin margins in just the right places.
The Democrat solution is to give amnesty to DACA recipients, improve border security (without a wall), and reallocate the diversity visas to clearing the backlog of family-sponsored and business-sponsored applicants. Nobody on the left has ever actually advocated for blanket amnesty or open borders, that is a Republican strawman that comes up every single time immigration is discussed.
You continue to state that I am not objective, while refusing to provide any facts to support your claims. My opinions are based on facts. If you want me to believe that the majority of people support what Trump is doing, show me a poll that has 50.001% of people supporting something he did.
Social services to the poor? Ok, there is ~40b. Now about the other trillion....
You are factually paying less taxes. Did you account for your DOUBLED standard deduction next year?
Your polls don't matter to me. A good idea does not become bad, because the public doesn't like it.
Trump was duly elected. Denying that is just silly.
The Democrat solution is NOT to give amnesty to DACA kids. That is a LIE. They had every chance to do that when they were in power, and they didn't. And now, when the GOP wants to do it, they are blocking it. CLEARLY, the Democrat party does NOT want amnesty for DACA people, and they sure as hell don't want to stop illegal immigration. They have NO desire to fix any of this. They like it just how it is, because they can endlessly fight about immigration in the news, and paint Republicans as racist. They will NEVER go along with any law that harms their chance to call the right racist, because that is LITERALLY their only issue to run on. Their economic ideas died with communism, and now they have nothing left but race.
You think you are hiding behind facts, but you are not. You are hiding behind POLLS, not facts. And much of what we are discussing, is just basic logic. You don't need a poll, to tell you when sound logic is in play, and when it is not.
POLLS =/= FACTS
Which isn't remotely helpful for those of us who live in the civilized states.
No, a bad idea is a bad idea because it's bad in of itself; the fact the public dislikes this bad idea is more evidence of how awful it actually is.Your polls don't matter to me. A good idea does not become bad, because the public doesn't like it.
Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
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Why yes, I did. Did you account for the COMPLETELY REMOVED individual exemptions?
See below.
I agree he was duly elected under the law. He was not POPULARLY elected, as in, he did not have a majority (or even a plurality) of voters, let alone of the entire electorate.
I'll agree to disagree here. I don't see a productive conversation where you dictate to me what Democrats supposedly want.
I am not hiding behind polls. I am not asking for sound logic, or anything along those lines.
You made this claim:
I am asking you to provide any evidence that Trump policies and actions enjoy popular support. If you are unable to provide evidence to support your claim, that's fine. I won't ask you to retract - people make unverifiable statements all the time. I WILL ask you to stop questioning my objectivity on the basis that asking for your source makes me somehow not objective.
You factually did NOT have more in itemized deductions, that were removed, than you get from doubling the standard deduction. Show your math or stop lying. Either will work.
Who cares how Trump was elected? These are the rules. Everyone knew the rules. Even the dumbest poster here, whoever that might be, would have known better than to ignore the rust belt that Trump was so obviously targeting. Hillary LITERALLY spent campaign dollars in California. That is political malpractice.
Democrat voters may want what you want, but not he elected Democrats. The elected Democrats will NEVER vote for a solution to illegal immigration. NEVER. The only reason they are so against the wall, is because it will work so well.
If what Trump is doing is unpopular, why is his approval rating going up? Explain that please. What is your explanation for the dramatic improvement in his poll ratings, after the tax cut passed, if not the tax cut itself?