CNN town hall on gun control

[Felya]

Its what the liberals do, play on feelings.

You sure about that?

[Poopymonster]

Fuck those kids and thier dead friends, right?

Wrong state, you're looking for Alabama.

[Togashii]

Wrong state, you're looking for Alabama.

Oh shit... so funny, so wrong. I’m going to hell now...

[Dacien]

Really makes you think when your argument is "hard" because it involves dealing with innocent children being killed and facing that makes you wince.

This really bothers me to my core watching this. When it's an equivalent number of deaths for other legal substances or objects, everyone just shrugs their shoulders and says, "There's always going to be some bad people out there," but for some reason when it comes to guns, we gotta do something, have you no heart? We care deeply and have townhall meetings with roaring anti-gun crowds about gun homicides, but everybody kind of just shrugs their shoulders at an equivalent number of alcohol-related killings, no calls to stop the alcohol lobby spending tens of millions of dollars in political donations, no calls to ban the sale of too many drinks at a bar, no calls to ban certain types of really strong alcohol, just a shrugging of shoulders. But guns? Major, catastrophic issue that needs these kinds of restrictions.

Why? Why do guns, semi-automatic rifles in particular, have such a laser focus? There's two reasons I can think of:

1. Most people like alcohol. Suddenly the passion and anger to restrict falls away quite a bit when it's something you yourself enjoy.

2. Mass shootings are visceral. It's a terrifying event that prompts people to action, to expect a solution to such a severe tragedy.

It's all very frustrating, and this is coming from a guy who doesn't own any guns, and never has. The reason for the 2nd Amendment is pretty clear.

[schwarzkopf]

When the adults forget to adult.

And to those who think these kids are too emotionally attached to be doing this?

I say - then in that case someone who has got millions of dollars of kickbacks from the NRA is also too emotional to be stopping them.

[Vanyali]

This really bothers me to my core watching this. When it's an equivalent number of deaths for other legal substances or objects, everyone just shrugs their shoulders and says, "There's always going to be some bad people out there," but for some reason when it comes to guns, we gotta do something, have you no heart? We care deeply and have townhall meetings with roaring anti-gun crowds about gun homicides, but everybody kind of just shrugs their shoulders at an equivalent number of alcohol-related killings, no calls to stop the alcohol lobby spending tens of millions of dollars in political donations, no calls to ban the sale of too many drinks at a bar, no calls to ban certain types of really strong alcohol, just a shrugging of shoulders. But guns? Major, catastrophic issue that needs these kinds of restrictions.

Why? Why do guns, semi-automatic rifles in particular, have such a laser focus? There's two reasons I can think of:

1. Most people like alcohol. Suddenly the passion and anger to restrict falls away quite a bit when it's something you yourself enjoy.

2. Mass shootings are visceral. It's a terrifying event that prompts people to action, to expect a solution to such a severe tragedy.

It's all very frustrating, and this is coming from a guy who doesn't own any guns, and never has. The reason for the 2nd Amendment is pretty clear.

Your entire first paragraph is *bullshit*.

We have a lot of anti-alcohol groups. We also have a lot of alcohol laws, including advertising laws, and ban things that are over certain amount of percent of alcohol. Just because it was done before you latched onto it as a "thing" to combat gun control of ANY sort doesn't make them exist less.

What we have now, with guns, is near zero regulation. If you're lucky, we can migrate this into something like current alcohol laws: reasonable without total banning. If you're UNLUCKY, we go into prohibition, spike crime up insanely, then go to reasonable without total banning. The second option is the shittiest for the wellbeing of america, but would be better than current because it'd be mostly violence against underground people at that point rather than the laws being so lax a minor with a history of mental health issues is allowed to get a gun legally.

[Felya]

This really bothers me to my core watching this. When it's an equivalent number of deaths for other legal substances or objects, everyone just shrugs their shoulders and says, "There's always going to be some bad people out there," but for some reason when it comes to guns, we gotta do something, have you no heart? We care deeply and have townhall meetings with roaring anti-gun crowds about gun homicides, but everybody kind of just shrugs their shoulders at an equivalent number of alcohol-related killings, no calls to stop the alcohol lobby spending tens of millions of dollars in political donations, no calls to ban the sale of too many drinks at a bar, no calls to ban certain types of really strong alcohol, just a shrugging of shoulders. But guns? Major, catastrophic issue that needs these kinds of restrictions.

Why? Why do guns, semi-automatic rifles in particular, have such a laser focus? There's two reasons I can think of:

1. Most people like alcohol. Suddenly the passion and anger to restrict falls away quite a bit when it's something you yourself enjoy.

2. Mass shootings are visceral. It's a terrifying event that prompts people to action, to expect a solution to such a severe tragedy.

It's all very frustrating, and this is coming from a guy who doesn't own any guns, and never has. The reason for the 2nd Amendment is pretty clear.

What are you talking about? No one is shrugging when a dozen people get killed. You argued we need a wall with Mexico, because you were so upset a girl was killed.

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Your entire first paragraph is *bullshit*.

We have a lot of anti-alcohol groups. We also have a lot of alcohol laws, including advertising laws, and ban things that are over certain amount of percent of alcohol. Just because it was done before you latched onto it as a "thing" to combat gun control of ANY sort doesn't make them exist less.

What we have now, with guns, is near zero regulation. If you're lucky, we can migrate this into something like current alcohol laws: reasonable without total banning. If you're UNLUCKY, we go into prohibition, spike crime up insanely, then go to reasonable without total banning. The second option is the shittiest for the wellbeing of america, but would be better than current because it'd be mostly violence against underground people at that point rather than the laws being so lax a minor with a history of mental health issues is allowed to get a gun legally.

In WA we have alcohol check points.

Edit: can you imagine the shit storm, if someone tries to buy a gun and the seller tells them “sorry sir, you seem like you have had too many. We are going to have to shut you down.” But, my alcoholism rights! I should be able to drink what ever I want, where ever I want!!

How is Jeff Sessions doing with his reinforcement of marijuana prohibition?

[mvaliz]

Your entire first paragraph is *bullshit*.

It's classic "Whataboutism". He speaks as if, somehow, we have to deal with one or the other and not BOTH. >_<

[Togashii]

In WA we have alcohol check points.

When did this change? Checkpoints used to be unconstitutional in WA.

[Thepersona]

It's classic "Whataboutism". He speaks as if, somehow, we have to deal with one or the other and not BOTH. >_<

Simple, give guns the same regulation that you give to cars.

[Dacien]

Your entire first paragraph is *bullshit*.

We have a lot of anti-alcohol groups. We also have a lot of alcohol laws, including advertising laws, and ban things that are over certain amount of percent of alcohol. Just because it was done before you latched onto it as a "thing" to combat gun control of ANY sort doesn't make them exist less.

Well it's not working! We have 10,000 people that die every year just to drunk driving deaths, not to mention the amount of people that die every year to tragedies that can be directly linked to the consumption of alcohol. We need to ban hard liquor! We need to prevent anyone convicted of a felony from being able to purchase alcohol! We need to ban alcohol for anyone with a mental illness! Here, please listen to this kid who lost his mother to a drunk driving accident, and tell me how our alcohol laws are sufficient.

What we have now, with guns, is near zero regulation. If you're lucky, we can migrate this into something like current alcohol laws: reasonable without total banning. If you're UNLUCKY, we go into prohibition, spike crime up insanely, then go to reasonable without total banning. The second option is the shittiest for the wellbeing of america, but would be better than current because it'd be mostly violence against underground people at that point rather than the laws being so lax a minor with a history of mental health issues is allowed to get a gun legally.

This is just patently false, and the rest of the paragraph follows suit from that flawed premise.

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It's classic "Whataboutism". He speaks as if, somehow, we have to deal with one or the other and not BOTH. >_<

I'm asking why we're laser-focused on guns. It's honestly puzzling when I consider other things we tolerate in this country that produce equal, or more, preventable deaths. What is this hyper-focus on gun deaths while at the same time shrugging off deaths caused by other preventable, legislatable activities?

[Felya]

When did this change? Checkpoints used to be unconstitutional in WA.

To some degree they were. They still do them around the holidays and some weekends. Roll down the window, if you seem impaired, they do the whole rigamarole. It’s different from random checks, which I believe were made unconstitutional.

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I'm asking why we're laser-focused on guns. It's honestly puzzling when I consider other things we tolerate in this country that produce equal, or more, preventable deaths.

Laser focused? You brought up alcohol, which is completley untrue. The current DOJ has reinstated their focus on banning marijuana. The current president is literally complaining that the current enviormental and medical regulations are too strict. We have an active ban on several countries making rounds around court. We have someone proposing a wall with Mexico as a solution to violence. What are you talking about?

[Breccia]

Your entire first paragraph is *bullshit*.

And to add to that, let's not forget: Trump didn't "shrug his shoulders" about the opioid crisis. He made a big campaign deal about it. He got a lot of support for it. Then he made a commission headed by Kellyanne Conway, proposed cutting/gutting the relevant agencies, and basically walked away.

Shrugging your shoulders is bad. Saying you won't, then doing it anyhow, is worse. Trump's statements about gun control so far could be exactly the same thing, but we won't know for a while -- it takes a while to propose legislation and draft it. Nobody expects a brand new bill tomorrow.

[mvaliz]

[[[Useless blather about cars and crap that has nothing to do with this thread]]]

Daicen, stop deliberately trying to engage in Whataboutism and talk about THIS issue - guns. If you want to talk about Drunk Driving, make it's own thread.

Stop talking about "We have to focus on one!" we do not. The focus on this thread is gun violence - talk about gun violence and leave the other blather about cars and crap that has nothing to do with this thread out of it.

[Felya]

Simple, give guns the same regulation that you give to cars.

We have fucking warning labels on mattresses and a massive lawsuit over spilled coffee. I have no clue what he is talking about... coffee... lol

[Vanyali]

Well it's not working! We have 10,000 people that die every year just to drunk driving deaths, not to mention the amount of people that die every year to tragedies that can be directly linked to the consumption of alcohol. We need to ban hard liquor! We need to prevent anyone convicted of a felony from being able to purchase alcohol! We need to ban alcohol for anyone with a mental illness! Here, please listen to this kid who lost his mother to a drunk driving accident, and tell me how our alcohol laws are sufficient.



This is just patently false, and the rest of the paragraph follows suit from that flawed premise.

True or false: a child with a history of mental illness, who posted videos that were known to his classmates about killing people, and that was kicked out of school was able to legally buy a gun in the state of florida.

You can cry that "well there's regulation so there!" but when they're that lax they might as well not exist. Shit, old cheeto signed a bill saying someone we say can't be trusted to take control of their own finances is competent enough to own a gun! Split the hair if you want, but it fools absolutely no one.

Also, for your prior "hurrr alcoholism" argument: drunk driving is actually on a downward trend in part to the fact that we have methods in place to reduce it and prevent people from driving home after drinking - ubers, taxis, getting cut off, the existence of a DD, massive add campaigns to not drink and drive. We have zero equivalent to guns (and I imagine you'd shit your pants at an add that showed gun accidents and ended with "don't buy guns" the way drunk driving accidents emphasize not doing something). We also have "listen to this person that lost a family member" - it's called MADD, and it's a quite large group that lobbies pretty damn hard. Are you even trying, or just flailing because you've got nothing to argue back except "it makes me uncomfortable so therefore they should stop"?

[Dacien]

What are you talking about? No one is shrugging when a dozen people get killed. You argued we need a wall with Mexico, because you were so upset a girl was killed.

I never argued for no wall, let's not derail into unsubstantiated nonsense, Felya.

[mvaliz]

I'm asking why we're laser-focused on guns.

Because it's the subject of this thread.

Jesus christ - talk about the subject of the thread - stop trying to derail this via whataboutism.

[Felya]

I never argued for no wall, let's not derail into unsubstantiated nonsense, Felya.

Excuse me? You just spent several post talking about alcohol and complaining how we are laser focused on the gun issue. Can you please stop this act?

Don’t want to derail the thread to be about the wall? Reply to anything else.

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Because it's the subject of this thread.

Jesus christ - talk about the subject of the thread - stop trying to derail this via whataboutism.

He just said this to me:

I never argued for no wall, let's not derail into unsubstantiated nonsense, Felya.

WTF?!

[Dacien]

True or false: a child with a history of mental illness, who posted videos that were known to his classmates about killing people, and that was kicked out of school was able to legally buy a gun in the state of florida.

You can cry that "well there's regulation so there!" but when they're that lax they might as well not exist. Shit, old cheeto signed a bill saying someone we say can't be trusted to take control of their own finances is competent enough to own a gun! Split the hair if you want, but it fools absolutely no one.

Also, for your prior "hurrr alcoholism" argument: drunk driving is actually on a downward trend in part to the fact that we have methods in place to reduce it and prevent people from driving home after drinking - ubers, taxis, getting cut off, the existence of a DD, massive add campaigns to not drink and drive. We have zero equivalent to guns (and I imagine you'd shit your pants at an add that showed gun accidents and ended with "don't buy guns" the way drunk driving accidents emphasize not doing something). We also have "listen to this person that lost a family member" - it's called MADD, and it's a quite large group that lobbies pretty damn hard. Are you even trying, or just flailing because you've got nothing to argue back except "it makes me uncomfortable so therefore they should stop"?

There's a lot of claims packed in here.

I'd be fine with ads that show the bad consequences of gun ownership gone awry with a "don't buy guns" tagline. That would be fine.

The bill Trump signed last year has been beaten to death, not going to go over it once again here. If you press me, I'll copy-paste a previous post.

And MADD is certainly allowed to advocate for their cause, but it's not a national story every time a particularly gruesome drunk driving accident occurs that kills several children, igniting a national debate about the lack of good alcohol control.