Spoilers: Why is the Alliance story so weak in BFA compared to the Horde?

[scrappybristol]

kinda sounds similar to what the horde had handed to them all of Legion

[KrakHed]

kinda sounds similar to what the horde had handed to them all of Legion

I don't want anyone to get substandard content. I want a story that's good as a whole. Even if I were anti-Alliance, I'd want the Alliance to be interesting and worthy foes on the field of battle.

[Ningjinq]

I do find it funny how some think I’m Alliance. While my word choice on thread title was poor, I’m definitely 100% Horde. I just think, along with what seems to be a lot of testers, the 2 Alliance zones are significantly worse off to the Horde zones.

I do still have good expectations for Stormsong Valley though. With the Old God-looking temple and all.

It would be cool if Blizzard made Kul Tiras far more brutal than say Gilneas or Stormwind. Kul Tirans descend from Gilneans settlers from like 2,000 years ago. They could easily have maintained traditions that were dropped by the other human kingdoms and seen as more barbaric by the other human kingdoms.

Well, Drustvar’s witches are pretty barbaric. Turning humans into pigs and then butchering them to make sausage for instance.

Imo, Tiragarde Sound i don’t think should be barbaric and the political rivalry can work as a good plot device. (Almost all other human lore in game is based on 100% unity so this actually is fresh). Problem as I see it right now is too much of the zone is trying to be like Treasure Island instead of following the Ashvane v Proudmoore plotline.

[KrakHed]

Well, Drustvar’s witches are pretty barbaric. Turning humans into pigs and then butchering them to make sausage for instance.

Anomalies don't really count. The Twilight's Hammer is brutal, but they aren't representative of any particular cultural trends or history. The Witches only became an issue recently.

[Deleted]

Alliance story put on the back burner to give the Horde more focus?

Shocking.

That's never happened before.

*coughcoughTwilightHighlandscoughcough*

*coughcataclysmlevelingandsiegeoforgrimmarcough*

[LazarusLong]

It makes me wish there were some actual Drust sorts still alive. However, this is Alpha. The time before it's too late to raise our voices in concern.

Anyhow, my issue with Kul Tiras so far is that there's a certain lack of depth. The current state of Drust lore is that there were some wicked evil savages from way back when, who got their asses handed to them when someone actual fought back. Now they're all dead and genocided, as they deserved, and back to be genocided again. The basic idea of Drustvar and the intended tone is good, but things get repetitive after awhile. Drustvar is in desperate need of deeper lore. There are some random Druids off on a random farm in the zone. Human Druids. Yet they're entirely disconnected from the whole plot currently.

The scale doesn't need to be the largest, the Drust don't need to be the end of the world, but the implementation could be better. Maybe make the Drust somewhat sympathetic instead of just having been rightfully slaughtered savages, and tie them into these Human Druids we're seeing for some reason. Maybe put those Druids on the wrong end of a witch hunt, because they're pretty obvious targets. Have them hang around and conduct rituals at more benign Drust sacred sites, and expand on how the Drust began to use this "death druidism" of theirs. Get me invested in the culture and mindset of these people.

Tiragarde Sound probably needs some more quests, but I just didn't feel like the culture drew me in anywhere near as well as Zuldazar. At times, Kul Tiras looks like it's aiming for a dark fantasy vibe, but I don't feel it commits sufficiently to that theme. Kul Tiras has nice visuals for that purpose, but I want it more ingrained in the day to day atmosphere of the place. Not just in tentacle priests. The tentacles make that darkness too external.

Curiously, the one line I saw that made me think Kul Tiras could be something truly other was one uttered on Zandalar, where it was suggested that Kul Tirans were known for being slavers. Yet that doesn't ever seem to come up on Kul Tiras itself.

Well, unless... Quillboar are a Kalimdor race. What the fuck are they doing on Kul Tiras unless someone brought them over. From Kalimdor. As slaves.

EDIT: Now, that's one thing that'd give Kul Tiras some flavor and provide some real interaction with other races on their island. Put some Quillboar laborers in various out of the way places. Mining, farming, aiding in construction, or whatever. All under the watchful eyes of human Overseers. Occasionally running off to join roving bands of criminals or signing up with pirates in the hopes of returning to Kalimdor one day.

You do that, and you've suddenly made Kul Tiras its very own special thing. You've also created a natural point of animosity between them and the Zandalari, as the Zandalar have a good deal of contempt for keeping slaves.

I actually agree about Drustvar. They need a deeper lore and connection to other world - like in Pandaria where we suddenly found out that Mogu are titan constructs./ I would also reverse sides in this stoty, to make us a villians there of sorts (colonizers wiping out native population, centuries later their decendants are haunted by last curse).

Tiragarde Sound simply is unfinished currently.

[Doomchicken]

*coughcataclysmlevelingandsiegeoforgrimmarcough*

*cough5.3androbocatcough* :P

[Gaidax]

Azshara seems to be tied to Kyl Tiras though. I would not judge too fast.

[Deleted]

Be patient young ones... I assume both factions are getting somewhat equally good storylines in BeeFA.

[eillas]

kinda sounds similar to what the horde had handed to them all of Legion

While Warlords had a lot of horde themes. Oh, and legion gave the Horde one of the best races ever. The nightborne.

[Osiria]

Blizzard has a weird thing for the Horde. They always end up designing them first, and the Alliance is forced to just play along.

Here's an example. It's quite possible that, when thinking about adding High Elves to the Alliance, they thought "well, what we're doing for the Horde"? So, they came up with Nightborne, then, concerned they wouldn't feel right, tried dumping as much effort as they could to make everything look interesting. Thing is, they've just spent all the resources thinking about the Horde. Now, there's nothing left and all they could think was a cheap scenario and adding these Void Elves just to make them different enough. Also probably because they thought "it wouldn't be fair to Horde belfs if they looked similar!"

When Blizzard think about Horde design, they think about the Horde. When they think about Alliance design, they think "how does the Horde feel about it"?

[KrakHed]

I actually agree about Drustvar. They need a deeper lore and connection to other world - like in Pandaria where we suddenly found out that Mogu are titan constructs./ I would also reverse sides in this stoty, to make us a villians there of sorts (colonizers wiping out native population, centuries later their decendants are haunted by last curse).

Tiragarde Sound simply is unfinished currently.

Oh, I know Tiragrade is unfinished. I'm just commenting on what I'd like to see more of, because I'm still not seeing enough. When it comes down to it, I'm well aware that they're doing something very different with both islands. Zandalar is one large interconnected zone that tells parts of a much larger story all throughout, with a feeling like stepping into the Trolls' very own mythology and legends full of gods and prophets. You even have Bwonsamdi waiting for Rastakhan at the Golden Throne if you bother to check when you're dead. That just adds to the mythological feel of it all, I suppose.

Right now, Kul Tiras doesn't yet feel like it has the same unifying themes, story, or anything that Zandalar has. That's fine on its own, but we're completely on agreement about Drustvar. It doesn't go deep enough. A smaller scale story can easily be good, but it should be at least as rich in detail and lore. There should be characters that I have reason to grow attached to, that make you invested in them.

On Zandalar, every single zone fleshed out their culture as a whole. Taught me about what the Zandalari look down on and what they value. I saw gods bicker over souls, a charismatic Prophet showing off his talents, and so on. The companions you found throughout the zones were great. So when I look at Kul Tiras, I don't want them to be left behind.

I want Gorak Tul of the Drust to have at least 1/10th of the charisma as one of Zandalar's prophets, gods, and all else. I want the Coven's leaders to shine at least half as bright as any random questchain boss on Zandalar. Because right now, Kul Tiras doesn't feel it has anywhere near the level of charisma and personality as Zandalar, and I desperately want it to be able to approach that level. Zandalar has fucking custom graveyards with Bwonsamdi mocking you after you die, watching the King's throne, being worshiped by spirits, or fishing in a river. That's personality.

I want to see Death Magic given a variety of good and interesting portrayals, which is why I really want the Drust to be something memorable that people will be talking about years later. Right now, there's just not anything to talk about with them. If they were as you said, there could be a ton of debate or discussion. If there was proper lore, it could be catalogued. If some Drust survived, and their descendants formed a branch of Druidism on Kul Tiras, it'd be neat to see how they got absorbed into Kul Tiran culture and how much of the old ways they still preserved.

[Deleted]

maybe because its alpha?

[KrakHed]

When Blizzard think about Horde design, they think about the Horde. When they think about Alliance design, they think "how does the Horde feel about it"?

Considering the Garrosh debacle and Vol'jin's bullshit death, I don't think they design around the Horde at all. Anduin's been a regular presence in the stories of quite a few expansions, even has a large variety of models for his coming of age story. The problem isn't that they design for the Horde. The problem is that the Alliance doesn't like what Blizzard thinks they should. The "Lawful Good Overdrive/High King" bullshit didn't go over well. Varian practically swapped personalities with Jaina for some reason, and all sorts of other bullshit.

This isn't because Blizzard doesn't design things for the Alliance or doesn't worry about what you think. Rather, I think they worry about it too much and try to play things too safe with the Alliance.

[Soluna]

When Blizzard think about Horde design, they think about the Horde. When they think about Alliance design, they think "how does the Horde feel about it"?

Source, or is that you talking out of your ass? Cause Legion has been a pretty alliance expac, and I am 100% Alliance. I am the kind of guy who yells out loud Genn's voice lines cause I like him that much. Also Void Elves are far more interesting than blood elves with blue eyes filled with vengeance.

[Mteq]

okey the following is pure speculation but is heavily influenced by what has been data mind so far so be careful of possible spoilers

but what i think is going on;
the ultimate story goal for 8.0 is the end boss in the raid - this is related to old gods. the journey for horde and alliance to get at that point is different but related - horde albeit being a bit more interesting.
Horde approaches Zandalar for allies in the war against the alliance, while doing so and gaining their trust, a plot is uncovered to overthrow the zandalar king by Zul. Zul being responsible for a lot of shit throughout the years and he is the one that opened the research facility of the old gods in quest for more power. horde finds out so Zul flees to Azshara and horde goes to the titan facility to stop the threat.
Alliance is revolved around the fall out of the facility being open. old god influences throughout the islands the alliance eventually finds out that is is due to the facility and goes there to shut it down. they found out it was Zul's doing at that point.

at this point the story for both factions becomes the same: go after Azshara and Zul to end their plotting and prevent the return of the old gods
8.1 is Azshara raid
8.2 is zul raid, but we fail to stop him (gul'dan style) and he summons the old gods
9.0 old gods expension

ofcourse this is extremely heavy speculation and has a lot of story offshoots, but the over arching story could be something like this.

[Choppersan]

I wish Kul Tiras had more native races. Both the tortollans and vulpera seem to ally with the Zandalari and interact with players. Kul Tiras has...quilboar and they just seem to be a run of the mill mob.

Which new original native races would you have created and introduced in Kul'tiras that would fit the feeling of it?

[Techno-Druid]

Which new original native races would you have created and introduced in Kul'tiras that would fit the feeling of it?

Tuskarr would definitely fit in Kul Tiras. Maybe after Kul Tiras drifted northwest, a subfaction of Kalu'ak settled along a secluded coast and established friendly relations with one of the noble houses. Would make a great Kul Tiras tortollan-equivalent as tortollans assist both Talanji in Nazmir and King Rastakhan in Zuldazar after Zul betrays everybody.

I would also like to see another aquatic race. The two animals that come to mind right now are sea otters and sharks, either of which could fit in with the Kul Tiras aesthetic.

[klaps_05]

My guess is most of the alliance storylines will be focused on the island plundering scenarios for azerite while horde focuses on the trolls, then we swap at max level as you get to clear all zones anyway.

[Viconia]

Reading threads like this reminds me of a Finnish saying. Let me convert it to WoW terms:

"Only an Alliance player is willing to pay 100 gold to prevent a Horde player from gaining 50 gold."

The saying is about jealousy in the form that one is willing to go as far as out-bidding their neighbour's gain to make sure everyone are equally miserable. Kul Tiras quests are very interesting and constructed with care. Enjoy them for what they are rather than enviously gandering Horde's side of the pot. It's not like Zandalar is more interesting just because it has more or less relevant lore-relations. Besides, it's known the factions have endgame content on the other side's continent. Alliance will be tied into the Azshara-plotline and Horde will.. do stuff in Kul Tiras.