Master Loot being purged?

[Deleted]

ML plague wannabe guilds and I would love it see it pruned.

[Urayamashii]

It really doesn't matter that tier is going away. Sure you don't have to worry about 2pc 4pc, but there's still going to be BiS azurite pieces. Not to mention trinkets and weapons.

[Ningjinq]

ML = better chance of not wasting an item drop because its poorly itemized for the player it dropped for but is 5ilvls higher so it can't be traded.

"If you have stingy people ... get better people..." you do realize that for some guilds and realms it's incredibly hard to recruit players right? You just want them to keep ditching players that don't want to trade their loot drop?

If they ease up on the trade restriction or remove it completely most of the problem will be eliminated but it will still have its flaws.

ML though you have an equal chance of every piece of loot dropping. Same drop rate on the bow for your 1 hunter as the staff for your 10+ casters.

With PL there’s a much higher chance of SOMEONE getting the staff to drop. And since weapons can only +5, it’s very, very likely people will be able to trade duplicate weapons, same applies to Azurite gear. (More so since they can’t WF at all)

Trinkets are a concern, but those still would benefit from the higher quantity of them dropping and a worst case scenario won’t happen all the time.

- - - Updated - - -

It really doesn't matter that tier is going away. Sure you don't have to worry about 2pc 4pc, but there's still going to be BiS azurite pieces. Not to mention trinkets and weapons.

The difference with tier is the vast majority of the time you can’t trade it because it didn’t give you the token, but the piece for the class instead. Azurite gear doesn’t have that issue. And on top of that, you can always trade duplicates since they can’t WF.

Also, BiS Azurite gear may come from M+ anyways.

[Splondir]

I really doubt a potential removal of master loot/friend council is actually targeted towards the top 1% of mythic raiders; the nerf to split runs is just a collateral benefit. And I certainly don't think this is aimed at heroic raiders.

I think Blizzard has decided to correct a long-standing problem of the regular, shitty, world 5000 mythic raiding guilds abusing friend council. Master loot was the only option for a long time, but now Blizzard has a perfect system for "regular" mythic raiders, meaning 90+% of them, and they probably expected personal loot to overtake friend council for the vast majority of these players. But nearly every modern mythic guild, no matter how trash, feels the need to use friend council to distribute loot as if they are counting on the perfect distribution of items to progress.

Frankly, if concerns that someone will run off once they receive loot keeps your guild's friend council giving loot to friends, then your guild is EXACTLY the target audience of personal loot. Optimal gear distribution for killing bosses is not the goal for these kinds of guilds' loot councils. And this sort of loot drama hurts the whole mythic raiding scene if it results in players not finding homes in guilds over the issue of loot. Wondering how long you have to wait before you have an even chance of getting loot as the officer core and their bros (it's forever, by the way) is a fear that will definitely inhibit people from jumping into guilds and higher-end raiding.

The reality is that friend council is not a fair system, but putting players against each other or encouraging people to act in anti-social ways really make it stand out as a problem. Even when looking at groups that try to have "fair" friend councils (they won't be fair, but some do at least try), those players would be better served with personal loot which is actually fair. The problem then turns to the fact that personal loot isn't run by nearly anyone during progression even if it might be perfect for them. I think this is because there is a strong ubiquitous opinion in contemporary raiding that guilds need to run friend council to be optimal, and so they do indeed run it for the sake the of progression. Blizzard wasn't able to counter this by making personal loot more appealing by giving it more loot, so they are going to hard fix the problem by saving people from themselves and forcing personal loot.

Even though I do think players deciding among themselves how to distribute loot is part of the raiding experience, I think the 90% of players that would have stuck with reasonably fair systems like DKP in the past when they worked, today are stuck with friend councils because they think copying Method's loot system will bring them more success. So to save these clowns from their self-inflicted misery, I think master loot has become a necessary casualty.

RIP Friend Council, 2005-2018

[Alvito]

That's one way to see it. Another way to see it is with this it won't be happening again.

A shitty fix to a non issue for most.

[Rendark]

Master loot and loot council are the best.

[Mister Cheese]

I think there is a huge disconnect between the developers, the community at large, and mythic raiders. I myself as a mythic raider don't want Master Loot removed for several reasons. Reason number one being that while yes, personal loot does give more loot out overall, a lot of that loot can be useless and doesn't go to people who need it. You also have a case of guilds who are progressing and have a continual cycle of people getting good gear and then leaving to join a better guild. DKP/master loot usually stops this because dedicated guild members will stay and earn loot rather than just up and leaving after getting enough gear to join a better progressed guild.

Not one person I talked to who is in favor of having Master Loot removed recently has mythic progression. This seems to be a move to appeal to casual players who only raid once a week or every other week in a normal raid group, and to curb the world first race. I don't understand this line of thinking because the world first race doesn't affect the rest of the playerbase. I had someone come in my guild thread a while ago on the official forums complaining about our loot system. And they admitted to never even raiding in such an environment before anyway.

[Toybox]

Like i know people think this isnt going to be the case, and "HAHA WELL MEMED FRIEND" but i promise you, this will be the case, on top of that, you can expect people to still run splits. Just requires more altwork in downtime, something i know EVERY SINGLE TOP PLAYER wants right ? :3
But alas, noone asked for ML removal, litterally noone. The freedom of choice, for some reason has to be removed without doing anything for glameplay. There isnt a new way to prioritize loot, say coins are 100% drops from bosses, or you can prio-specific loot. Nono, Pure RNG-shitfest, wich ALL casuals and raiders alike LOVED in legion, right?

Actually depressing. I have seen many changes since 2005 when EU-WOW released, but this might actually finally make me quit. I cannot bear to think about how someone will outluck me for an entire expansion again.
If its such a big deal, Atleast make ML available in Mythic... I beg you.

Pretty much, and yeah... In a full guild mythic run, there's absolutely no reason for this system. It's just going to make farm more time consuming as the loot will be more tedious to distribute - That's all it'll achieve.

[corebit]

Not one person I talked to who is in favor of having Master Loot removed recently has mythic progression. This seems to be a move to appeal to casual players who only raid once a week or every other week in a normal raid group, and to curb the world first race. I don't understand this line of thinking because the world first race doesn't affect the rest of the playerbase. I had someone come in my guild thread a while ago on the official forums complaining about our loot system. And they admitted to never even raiding in such an environment before anyway.

It's easy to understand why they have such a tainted view towards ML. For most of them raiding is done through PuGs, and it only takes one or two jerks who ninja the drops to create a lasting negative impression on them. That or they stay in very shitty guilds who implode after a few months from the loot drama.

However most established progression raiding guilds have very fair loot distribution with ML. My guild even funnels loot to new recruits to get them up to speed quickly, as long as they show they are a good team player and have regular attendance. At this time of raiding, most of the earlier boss gear gets sharded anyway, so we are happy to give them to new recruits.

[Anonymitylol]

For most of them raiding is done through PuGs

Which you can't have ML in now anyways. This hurts the more serious mythic casual progression guilds more than the top-end. You'll just have raiders trade loot around as if ML was never taken away, just adding more headaches to Mythic raiding and offers 0 benefit because Mythic raiding was never split ran. Only heroic should have forced personal, never mythic.

[corebit]

Which you can't have ML in now anyways. This hurts the more serious mythic casual progression guilds more than the top-end. You'll just have raiders trade loot around as if ML was never taken away, just adding more headaches to Mythic raiding and offers 0 benefit because Mythic raiding was never split ran. Only heroic should have forced personal, never mythic.

Yes, you can't choose ML now in a PuG, but as you can see from the posts a lot of the anti-ML people still hold on to their bad experience years ago with shitty groups, decided to call it quits, and just started PuGing ever since PL was enforced. They haven't experienced fair ML loot with a decent raiding guild.

[andy123456]

Yes, you can't choose ML now in a PuG, but as you can see from the posts a lot of the anti-ML people still hold on to their bad experience years ago with shitty groups, decided to call it quits, and just started PuGing ever since PL was enforced. They haven't experienced fair ML loot with a decent raiding guild.

i started wow with legion, and i really didn't like ML, but i did see benefit of ML due to tier sets.But when tier sets are removed , ML does have any benefit.Unable to trade item level upgrades can be changed by blizz.
Sure giving loot priority to a certain class/player ,is a plus point , but it matters only in hardcore raiding guild whose size is less than 500.Rest guild attempts on mythic kills when they are over geared and they fail to kill boss due to mechanics understanding or cannot do mechanics properly.So giving top loot to top players has no point.
ML system in most of the guild are abused to give loot to close friends of loot officer which i think many people agree.

[Ophenia]

They don't have loot drama. At all. Multiple ppl wanted same item that someone doesn't need? Roll, end of story.

Why don't you just roll on loot, like what we have with, for example !, master loot and group loot ?

Except that these 2 systems actually work, because Personal Loot prevents you from trading the unwanted item if it is higher than what you currently have. This is the major flaw.

You have a 960 trinket and loot a 965 trinket a bit worse than your current one ? Shame, you won't be able to trade it to your mate who only has a 910. Boom, big nerf to your raid.

But hey, that's still a good news for disenchanting I guess. Woo.

[Ipsissimus]

All hail the RNG gods.

[andy123456]

Why don't you just roll on loot, like what we have with, for example !, master loot and group loot ?

Except that these 2 systems actually work, because Personal Loot prevents you from trading the unwanted item if it is higher than what you currently have. This is the major flaw.

You have a 960 trinket and loot a 965 trinket a bit worse than your current one ? Shame, you won't be able to trade it to your mate who only has a 910. Boom, big nerf to your raid.

But hey, that's still a good news for disenchanting I guess. Woo.

"You have a 960 trinket and loot a 965 trinket a bit worse than your current one ? Shame, you won't be able to trade it to your mate who only has a 910. Boom, big nerf to your raid."
which can be changed by blizz easily

[kamuimac]

Yeah that's not true at all...

Idk where the fuck Ion got the idea that people only used ML because of tier but that's a super ignorant perception.

thats just an excuse - ML was gearing people too accurately and was causing too much toxicity with the loot systems that guilds were using

its natural that they are going away with it.

it will be good for the game overall in long run

and if some toxic element will unsub because of it - thats just good for the game.

- - - Updated - - -

"You have a 960 trinket and loot a 965 trinket a bit worse than your current one ? Shame, you won't be able to trade it to your mate who only has a 910. Boom, big nerf to your raid."
which can be changed by blizz easily

you are purposely ignoring fact that they will be redesigning stat systems so that situation like this will be very rare. my bet is they will reduce 2ndary stats on gear significantly in next alpha builds (lets say cut value by 5 or 10) so that itlv>eveyrthing not like it was in legion or in past.

they are clearly making deep reworks to gearing .

[SinAscendant]

thats just an excuse - ML was gearing people too accurately and was causing too much toxicity with the loot systems that guilds were using

its natural that they are going away with it.

it will be good for the game overall in long run

and if some toxic element will unsub because of it - thats just good for the game.

- - - Updated - - -



you are purposely ignoring fact that they will be redesigning stat systems so that situation like this will be very rare. my bet is they will reduce 2ndary stats on gear significantly in next alpha builds (lets say cut value by 5 or 10) so that itlv>eveyrthing not like it was in legion or in past.

they are clearly making deep reworks to gearing .

I doubt reducing secondaries would do anything, you'd still go for say a Mastery 910 piece over a Vers 930. It would probably be something like increasing ilvl just gives you a flat damage increase.

[andy123456]

thats just an excuse - ML was gearing people too accurately and was causing too much toxicity with the loot systems that guilds were using

its natural that they are going away with it.

it will be good for the game overall in long run

and if some toxic element will unsub because of it - thats just good for the game.

- - - Updated - - -



you are purposely ignoring fact that they will be redesigning stat systems so that situation like this will be very rare. my bet is they will reduce 2ndary stats on gear significantly in next alpha builds (lets say cut value by 5 or 10) so that itlv>eveyrthing not like it was in legion or in past.

they are clearly making deep reworks to gearing .

what ever the change may be . I was quoting ophenia comment about demerit about PL loot, which can be removed if blizz allow item level upgrade , to be traded

[Nutri]

Sorry if this has been posted, but will Group Loot remain ingame or is it Personal Loot exclusively come BfA?
(asking for legacy raid transmog runs)

[corebit]

i started wow with legion, and i really didn't like ML, but i did see benefit of ML due to tier sets.But when tier sets are removed , ML does have any benefit.Unable to trade item level upgrades can be changed by blizz.
Sure giving loot priority to a certain class/player ,is a plus point , but it matters only in hardcore raiding guild whose size is less than 500.Rest guild attempts on mythic kills when they are over geared and they fail to kill boss due to mechanics understanding or cannot do mechanics properly.So giving top loot to top players has no point.

False, giving loot to the top players first helps beat DPS checks during progression. Once we down the boss and put it on farm, everyone else gets their preferred loot as well. Getting the BIS gear you want is only a matter of sooner or later. I much rather have that than wipe endlessly to the boss to satisfy a false sense of fair loot distribution.

ML system in most of the guild are abused to give loot to close friends of loot officer which i think many people agree.

Once again, just because you had bad experience with your own guild or PuG doesn't mean "most of the guild" out there do it as well.