Alts BfA will be similar to Legion in terms of alt-friendliness.

[Ragnarohk]

ok so alts are as dead in BfA as they were in Legion .

good to know to not waste time on shit expansion .

Legion is extremely alt friendly.

You can jump to endgame really quick. Timewalking, Argus, Invasion Points, LFR gear you up really quick.
You basically unlock all your artifact traits with a single AP granting item.
You get legendaries quickly, specially now that you can craft 1 a week.
Broken Isles flying is account wide.
You begin with world quests unlocked.
With PvP Templates the relative power of new players in LFR gear isn't that far behind from older players.

I played my lvl 110 priest for 2 days and she's now ready to tackle Antorus.

Did you even play the older expansions? This has been one of the most alt friendly ones of them all

[Tradu]

Legion is extremely alt friendly.

You can jump to endgame really quick. Timewalking, Argus, Invasion Points, LFR gear you up really quick.
You basically unlock all your artifact traits with a single AP granting item.
You get legendaries quickly, specially now that you can craft 1 a week.
Broken Isles flying is account wide.
You begin with world quests unlocked.
With PvP Templates the relative power of new players in LFR gear isn't that far behind from older players.

I played my lvl 110 priest for 2 days and she's now ready to tackle Antorus.

Did you even play the older expansions? This has been one of the most alt friendly ones of them all

Legendaries are still shit, as much as people claim you can get them "quickly". If you do absolutely everything every week(which is not a reasonable expectation), you get roughly 2 a week. That's over a month before you can be certain you have the ones you want for one spec.

[Saiona]

Only hard part about having alts in Legion are the legendaries. If those are removed then BFA wll be pretty alt friendly imo

[kary]

Legendaries are still shit, as much as people claim you can get them "quickly". If you do absolutely everything every week(which is not a reasonable expectation), you get roughly 2 a week. That's over a month before you can be certain you have the ones you want for one spec.

I had 92nd percentile parses on my holy priest with the absolute worst legendaries for the spec. Legendaries matter not.

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It's is now. It wasn't when it started.

Catchup mechanics shouldn't exist in the first tier of an expansion.

[kary]

Yeah, like I said - alts were totally in the shitter at the start of the expac.

No, alts were fine, you just had to play them.
Which took nothing but logging in twice a week.

[Tradu]

I had 92nd percentile parses on my holy priest with the absolute worst legendaries for the spec. Legendaries matter not.

With better legendaries you would've done better, especially if you played a DPS spec or even a healer spec that isn't the 2nd the worst option for the class you're playing. I got a rank 1 on Krosus as Feral with bad legendaries and a suboptimal talent setup. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have done even better with BiS legendaries and proper talents.

[kary]

With better legendaries you would've done better, especially if you played a DPS spec or even a healer spec that isn't the 2nd the worst option for the class you're playing. I got a rank 1 on Krosus as Feral with bad legendaries and a suboptimal talent setup. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have done even better with BiS legendaries and proper talents.

And not having bis doesn't mean that the game is broken and your class is unplayable.
So you're completely viable with almost any legendaries.

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Which does not make it GOOD. (Ex.: Fire mage gets Haste/Versatility ring - Easily not worth using, even if 30 ilevels higher than his Crit/Mastery ring.)



Which is still subject to RNG.



And still could be the worst item possible for you, and worse than items of lower ilevel.



Which still does not make it good.



And most people don't.



IF YOU FARM FOR A WEEK.



Is irrelevant when it can only scale up to 910 - Equal to the argunite gear, which is still not good.



Not even somewhat true.



You're the one who said you couldn't pug ICC at 232 ilevel.

I showed you how not only could they, but they did at an even lower ilevel.

You can literally purchase legendaries from the auction house, you jackass.

[Ragnarohk]

Oh, so you'd rather grind for 4 hours to get enough resource to get one random roll piece of gear that may or may not be useful to you (nevermind potentially PvP gear, especially in the way of Trinkets), than do (maximum) 10 dungeons to buy the one piece of gear available to you, meaning people can't complain when they see you wearing it because it means you did what you were supposed to do.

Again: I fail to see how Legion is MORE alt friendly. It takes more time to get less - That's not alt friendly.

It doesn't take more time.
You can get 2-3 pieces of loot per dungeon if you trade them.
Trade Items in LFR, if you ask you can get various pieces in a single run.
Weekly quests rewarding raid level gear.
World Quests. Kill 5 mobs and get this ilvl 900 item herpaderp.
Bonus Roll.
Legendary bad luck protection
Titanforged gear.
You can buy ilvl 910+ gear with resources that you get for doing world quests.

You can get a toon from fresh lvl 110 to Antorus ready in 2 days or so. Goodluck going from fresh lvl 80 to ICC ready in that same time.

[Tradu]

And not having bis doesn't mean that the game is broken and your class is unplayable.
So you're completely viable with almost any legendaries.

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You can literally purchase legendaries from the auction house, you jackass.

You can buy garbage legendaries from the AH, yes. And stuff like "viable" and "good enough" are completely irrelevant. And at the start of Legion, bad legendaries definitely did mean that some specs were unplayable(or at least so weak that there was no reason to). Now that's not the case as much, but it still sucks to get bad legendaries, because it makes it less fun to play the character. It's the same reason specs suck to play at low levels, because you're missing talents/passives.

[kary]

I find it amusing how 910 is bad but 232 is acceptable when they are the same itemlevel gap (930 for abt normal and 251 for icc 10)

Also, world quest gear has no cap on how high it can roll.

Purchaseable crafted gear goes to 935 for 2 slots. Legendary from the auction house. Quest legendary ring from LFR Argus.

[kary]

You can buy garbage legendaries from the AH, yes. And stuff like "viable" and "good enough" are completely irrelevant. And at the start of Legion, bad legendaries definitely did mean that some specs were unplayable(or at least so weak that there was no reason to). Now that's not the case as much, but it still sucks to get bad legendaries, because it makes it less fun to play the character. It's the same reason specs suck to play at low levels, because you're missing talents/passives.

Parses are completely irrelevant, too.
Is the boss dying? Yes? K.

And what specs were unplayable outside of major balancing issues? No legendary turned a "bad" spec into a "good" spec. Bad specs remained bad with good legendaries. Affliction locks with BiS legendaries during EN were still jokes. What changed that? Major class tuning, not having "better legendaries"

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One, which has no worthwhile effect, and not a single one of which is the top of any class that can use it.

You were fine with using worthless trinkets, but now you have a problem with things having mediocre effects?
Alexa, what is a hypocrite?

[Tradu]

Parses are completely irrelevant, too.
Is the boss dying? Yes? K.

And what specs were unplayable outside of major balancing issues? No legendary turned a "bad" spec into a "good" spec. Bad specs remained bad with good legendaries. Affliction locks with BiS legendaries during EN were still jokes. What changed that? Major class tuning, not having "better legendaries"

Fire, Havoc, Arms just to give 3 examples. Yes, Affliction went from okay to the most broken thing the entire expansion(yes, more broken than StM) by getting more traits to double up on with their artifact ability, getting fed infinite souls for artifact ability on basically every boss starting in NH and getting buffed.

[prwraith]

I hated Legion alts with a passion, I wanted no part of this nonsense. Cata and wotlk were probably the highpoints for alts, for me at least.

I can't state it enough...I FUCKING HATE WORLD QUESTS. If I could find the designer who proposed that idea with a time machine I'd smack the shit out of him.

[kary]

I can assure you that for raiding alts, it wasn't just a case of logging in twice a week.
But whatever, I can see from your other responses that you're mostly here to rile up and polarise opinion.
Let's just agree to disagree here.

I literally did it.
You log in for your AK, do your M+ for the week, log in 4 days after for the next AK, repeat. Do whatever content you usually do.
I can link my 110 dates if you'd like.

[kary]

Fire, Havoc, Arms just to give 3 examples.

Fire mages were overpowered in EN tier even without bracers.
Havoc and Arms weren't bad classes early legion, either. Ring/Gloves made them go from middle of the pack to still not as good as fire mages without good legendaries.

[kary]

The trinkets from vendors in Wrath were not worthless. The trinkets from reroll tokens and terrible legendary effects are a problem.

I'm confused as to how you think I'm ok with terrible effects - Wrath vendor trinkets didn't have terrible effects - Sure, some weren't AMAZINGLY GODLY AWESOME, but they all had uses.

Just like how every stat in legion is useful, and every trinket contributes to your damage/survivability in some way.

And yes, they were worthless.

[kary]

Not even close, depending on your class.



Does not make them useful.



The Frost badge tank trinket was BiS with Sindragosa's trinket. The caster Triumph trinket was Pre-Raid BiS.

Dunno what you're smoking to think they're worthless.

BuT wHaT iF sInDragGosA tRinKEt dOesnT dRoP?

I like how you're adding raid gear in your argument for gearing up. zzzzz

[kary]

Just in case you missed it. Ignoring context doesn't help your argument.

I'm not ignoring context, I'm laughing at your inconsistencies.
The fact is that , and let me bold it so you understand

IN WOTLK, YOU HAD 1 TRINKET TOTAL FROM ICC BADGES. NOW YOU HAVE MORE THAN 1. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE A DPS TRINKET UNTIL YOU GOT A 2ND ONE. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE OFFSPEC GEAR IF YOU ARE GEARING A TOON NOW

I hope you understand the fundamental difference.

Mod Edit: Do not use gigantic fonts in this manner.

[kary]

I fixed it for you,

And no, I don't really.

You get statsticks from world quests straight up.
You have to get the item to drop from the dungeon. You can't control that. That's what you were saying before wasn't it?

And yeah, I figured you wouldn't understand, you're a hypocrite to the core so your brain doesn't allow you to do so.

[aviger]

Ive had 2 accounts since i started playing wow back in 2004.
Legion is the first time in all that time i cancelled one and only play 1 1/2 toon because of the stupid grind.