Master Looter

[zaino]

You obviously have never been in a good guild.

Our GM and Officers have no more right to gear over the raiders.

Yes we limit trials to below raiders, but this is because of the guild hopping gear grabbers who just try to abuse a guild for quick upgrades before moving in. Whats wrong with the "show some commitment before we invest in you" approach?

Cause apparently that’s facist. Can’t make this crap up lol

[Queen of Hamsters]

now ppl may even join guilds

What sort of loot-whoring losers didn't join guilds based solely on the fact that they tend to use ML to begin with...?

Time restraints and inability to commit is one thing, but we all choose what sort of guild we're in regardless of the loot rules they have.

[Deleted]

You're going to have to bring sources if you actually want to convince anyone of anything. Just because "your" experience has "ninja looting" happening a lot, doesn't really mean anything. I've been playing a long time, have pugged tons of times and its rather rare for me. So that account directly contradicts yours.

Also, you can't technically ninja-loot in any sense of the word here. You can roll need on things you don't need, sure. And as the ML you can give yourself whatever you want, technically, but that is pretty meaningless considering your raid will leave. So if you want to try to tell me that in a raid, 30-50 items drop and the MLer "ninjas' one item... well thats only .03-.02% of the items.... and you can't reasonably try to tell me this happens very often to begin with.... sooo those odds are rather low.

Again, you can make your own groups and use PL. Problem solved.

I don't have to bring sources, it is a well known issue that happens with ML.

I play since Vanilla and I saw more than once that with ML there were ninja loot or " let's ignore the rolls and give to my friends " and if we do a poll regarding ML and Ninja loot you can bet that poeole would be with me.

Ofc not every ML situation is a Ninjaloot or Misloot
But EVERY Ninjaloot happened during a ML scenario


Problem is that ML on pug is a matter of trust and trust in online games is always "meh"
That's why pug with the forced pl is a good thing not only because there are overall more drops than ml but also because there is no loot drama.

However ML in a guild scenario backed with RLootCouncil is a fine systen, the only real downside with PL forced in a guild scenario would be the massive wisp spam " do you need that?????? "

[zaino]

I don't have to bring sources, it is a well known issue that happens with ML.

I play since Vanilla and I saw more than once that with ML there were ninja loot or " let's ignore the rolls and give to my friends " and if we do a poll regarding ML and Ninja loot you can bet that poeole would be with me.

Ofc not every ML situation is a Ninjaloot or Misloot
But EVERY Ninjaloot happened during a ML scenario


Problem is that ML on pug is a matter of trust and trust in online games is always "meh"
That's why pug with the forced pl is a good thing not only because there are overall more drops than ml but also because there is no loot drama.

However ML in a guild scenario backed with RLootCouncil is a fine systen, the only real downside with PL forced in a guild scenario would be the massive wisp spam " do you need that?????? "

So what your saying is that you have no sources so the only thing you have is anecdotal evidence? Neat lol. Get out.

[Deleted]

100% a troll with that profile picture. Hahaha

So what's wrong with the picture?

[Deleted]

I was never in a guild that didn't shamelessly abuse master loot. In wrath, they would funnel the loot from 25 man into the officer's 10 man heroic group. I remember getting replaced because they nabbed a better geared lock from another guild. Despite being there all the way to LK. In Cata my guild leader would hand out dkp to people just because they ran dungeons. In MoP, loot council basically just meant friends got loot first. I remember busting my ass to get all the epics I could get before Vaults landed. Then the officer who was still in blues got every loot drop. Then they had their geared warlock, and kicked half the guild to do 10 man.

Arguably, the guy in blues needs the gear more than you, so that is fair judgement. The problem is, generally bad players feel abused by a system that expects you to be a good player.

[Onikaroshi]

yeah, it's alpha, that will not go through I 100% guarantee you. I'm not in a guild currently so it doesn't affect me, but it's extremely patronising of Blizz to say they know how to handle a guild's loot better than they do. A simple solution would be to force personal if it's any kind of group other than a guild one, at that point they are free to do as they wish.

Nice, but the opposite scenario?

When there are ninja looters, there are always master loot on?
TRUE




Problem is that ML is a usefull Tool in a Guild scenario, where in THEORY people distribuite loot in a way to improve the overall performance of the raid.


In a PUG scenario is basically "trusting stranger" and we know this is impossible.

Then don't PUG with people that use it, if thats what youre afraid of... but my experience is that "ninja looting" in a PUG is rather rare.

But that is "your" experience.


Problem is that ML in PUG is overall perceived as "ninja loot" because? Because it happens a lot.

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Try to make a Myth Guldan farm raid, and tell them "The first mount is mine since I am the RL/ML" you could be the most trustworthy person in the universe but at least 50% of the raid will be like "ye....no thank you" because that is what ML+PUG feels like.


ML+PUG had less impact before XREALM due to the "Reputation" on the server, ninjalooter would have been shame called in trade chat and get destroyed, but now?

I'd love to know what rock y'all been living under but you haven't been able to us ML in pug that's less then 80% guild since the start of legion, so its really a non-issue with pugging. (Personally I only join guild runs using master loot because of this, i hate PL)

[Soon-TM]

I gotta agree with Ion on this one. This has been happening at least since WotLK, and it seems that it has only become worse in time. Sure, not every GL/RL is as scummy, but there still is a good bunch out there. It's quite patronizing from Blizzard, but I find it the lesser of two evils.

[Elbob]

I don't have to bring sources, it is a well known issue that happens with ML.

I play since Vanilla and I saw more than once that with ML there were ninja loot or " let's ignore the rolls and give to my friends " and if we do a poll regarding ML and Ninja loot you can bet that poeole would be with me.

Ofc not every ML situation is a Ninjaloot or Misloot
But EVERY Ninjaloot happened during a ML scenario


Problem is that ML on pug is a matter of trust and trust in online games is always "meh"
That's why pug with the forced pl is a good thing not only because there are overall more drops than ml but also because there is no loot drama.

However ML in a guild scenario backed with RLootCouncil is a fine systen, the only real downside with PL forced in a guild scenario would be the massive wisp spam " do you need that?????? "

Hey check out that no source fact... "I saw more than once" well I have witnessed problems with PL that would be fixed my ML "more than once".

You can also ninja loot in grp loot by telling people to roll greed but hitting need, and FFA by being in melee and looting the fastest.
ML isnt an option to use in pugs only in guild grps as is. (you need 80%+ of people in the grp to be guildies to use ML) If you are joining a guild grps run and they have ML on ask them to clarify loot rules. If they break that agreement you can open a ticket and report them.

The main problem with PL is not the whisper-spam... It's the sub-optimal results of who gets what gear because ilvl upgrades can't be traded. If ML does go away in mythic raiding I'm going to keep track of how many times we get stuck with one player getting a 5 ilvl upgrade that would have been 20+ on some one else but PL says too bad.

[araine]

Is there actual concrete 100% proof ML is going? Even if there is, it won't make it to live. Blizzard don't want to piss off the top guilds.

removing Master loot and make personal loot default will make the race to world #1 more fair since it will not be about you having 4 alts to funnel gear from to get the progression. it means they can make more proper tuning for the majority of the player base since they dont have to tune it around elite guilds having 6 weeks of gear already on the first week in mythic

[araine]

How was it unfair in the first place is all serious guilds did it?

creates an unhealthy competition and you have an unfair advantage if you run 6-7 split raids funneling gear. personal loot only removes this major flaw

[Mhyroth]

I mean yes, the OP is using anecdotes and grossly exaggerating.

However the things they note DO happen, however infrequently. In a world without Master Loot, they cannot happen.

Getting hacked does happen, however infrequently. In a world without wihout hackers, they cannot happen.

[gaymer77]

I have seen similar things happen to people when I've been in guilds & pugs. Even when personal loot was implemented and guilds would advertise in LFG for more for their guild run, the majority of them (I would say 75%+) would still run ML and tell people that they were able to roll on any gear their members don't need or that tier pieces were reserved for guild members only. These same people would justify it by saying "if you don't like it then make your own group". I too have seen trials passed over for gear man times in various guilds I've been in. People's alts would get gear before the trial on their main would get it. I would be utterly happy if/when Blizzard did away with ML entirely.

Just so everyone is aware this is a troll and bait thread. Report and move on.

What exactly is there to report on this post? He's making a post in the general discussions section about his opinion on a subject in WoW that you may not agree with. Hate to break it to you but there are plenty of people who happen to agree with him and have had similar situations happen to them too.

We need perma's for guys like these... They just wait out the ban and then keep shitposting and not "learn". What is the point of infractions then?

So permaban anyone YOU don't agree with because YOU feel they shouldn't be posting their opinion? How kind of you.

Master Loot needs to stay for organized guilds who can't push to be the top 1%. Having people link gear they don't need (since it will be tradable loot on personal loot) and asking them to roll etc. is literally master loot, just with a different name.

Actually personal loot that is traded to other people who win it via /roll are not winning it based on master looter type of situation. They are winning it based on a need before greed situation.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I don't have to bring sources, it is a well known issue that happens with ML.

I play since Vanilla and I saw more than once that with ML there were ninja loot or " let's ignore the rolls and give to my friends " and if we do a poll regarding ML and Ninja loot you can bet that poeole would be with me.

Ofc not every ML situation is a Ninjaloot or Misloot
But EVERY Ninjaloot happened during a ML scenario


Problem is that ML on pug is a matter of trust and trust in online games is always "meh"
That's why pug with the forced pl is a good thing not only because there are overall more drops than ml but also because there is no loot drama.

However ML in a guild scenario backed with RLootCouncil is a fine systen, the only real downside with PL forced in a guild scenario would be the massive wisp spam " do you need that?????? "

Yes, you have to bring sources. My own time pugging since mid 2005 contradicts exactly what you are saying.

So, sources please.

"more than once" doesn't mean anything.

You don't have to use ML currently, no one is forcing you. You are literally making this problem up.

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creates an unhealthy competition and you have an unfair advantage if you run 6-7 split raids funneling gear. personal loot only removes this major flaw

Are you someone who is fighting for world first?

[Fatel]

Play with kiddies and join raid guilds to chase loot and you get what you ask for. We have been around since vanilla, raided just about all of the content, used everything from DKP to 'I-gotta-pee' and NEVER had anything like you described happen.

Join a real guild and not one thats been around for 2 weeks

[Magnosh]

Wait until you see OP whining again in BFA when alleged abusers just trade the items they get within their clique and OP feels entitled to the items instead.

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1. Split runs, to gain unfair advantages over players who didn't have 18 hours a day 7 days a week to level 12 alts and funnel gear to their mains in Mythic Raiding guilds.

How is this unfair? Is this kindergarten thought process? I think you should start whining to the Olympics committee because you can't train as much as the top athletes, it's totally unfair they can dedicate themselves to it but you can't

[Nathasil]

How does ML/PL have anything to do with split runs? OP does not seem to understand what he is talking about.

As long as PL remains tradeable (and it will, albeit this fucks up the entire mode, but it's far too popular for Blizzard to reverse it) you can perfectly fine continue split-running using PL. There is very little change at all. The only change is players in guilds that require split-runs will have to have certain lootspecs available. So, if you consider yourself an advocat for the oh-so-poor players who willingsly join guilds that do split runs and then complain about having to have x alts ready to go....they will not be happy about PL split runs.

95% of players are not concerned by split-runs. Your point about them making the content harder for the majority is completely made up. What DOES make the content harder for anybody who does not no-life the game is titanforging, because there is no way to tune a raid for someone who plays 24/7 fishing for TF and having +20 ilvl on most of his pieces and somebody who just wears the base ilvl of current content. But TF is not going anywhere, because it is rather popular with average players. As long as they do not implement some sort of ilvl cap for the hardest content in the game, tuning will be shit in a world with TF. It's that simple.

IF PL is forced on PvE (and Ion did NOT say that in the Q&A) the most visible concequence will be players of more common lootspecs gearing up faster. Because if there are more people to trade your loot with, you have an advantage. I do not like druids gearing up notably faster than shamans. I do not think it's good for the game.

[fatgunn]

Removing master loot will be one of the single worst decisions Blizz has made in a long time.

[Magnosh]

The main problem with PL is not the whisper-spam... It's the sub-optimal results of who gets what gear because ilvl upgrades can't be traded. If ML does go away in mythic raiding I'm going to keep track of how many times we get stuck with one player getting a 5 ilvl upgrade that would have been 20+ on some one else but PL says too bad.

And sadly Blizzard will tell you: ''oh so sad, try again next week , btw want to buy more game time while at it?''

[Bigvizz]

Salt, all I see is Salt, this is going to change the whole raiding scene, no more funneling gear I guess...oh well.