Master Looter

[Deleted]

maybe make heroic loot untradeable for the 1st month? Trying to think of a solution to split runs. Ban guilds who do split runs with more than 3 characters? Banning guilds who do above a certain number of split runs from getting a WF kill as cheating?

A bit drastic don't you think? Split running is in no way cheating. The problem is players who want to stay competetive have to spent enormous amount of hours doing Heroics for the first few weeks and it's just infuriatingly annoying to them. And if anyone wants to catch up they would have to sink in just as much time. It's well rewarded time spent in game, playing the game.
But as a former competetive player I have to say Blizzard needs to regulate split runs somehow... but forcing players to use personal loot is not the way.

[Lanfear1]

Im honestly happy I dont have to do split runs, that killed the experience for me some years ago. Many of the last bosses (M) are overtuned so hard you have to gear for a month after you kill the say 10/11, and that breaks a lot of guilds. This might change that.

Its also nice that "full on cloth" or "too many rogues" no longer is a thing regarding gear.

People will get a lot of duplicates, though, that sucks (But I think I herred we got more loot?). Would be nice if they made it so dupes had a 1/3 or 1/2 less chance of showing.

But what if the tank gets unlucky? Tanks usually got prio on the setbonus and then passed to dps.
There are no more setbonuses. Gear distribution DPS>Tank/Healer. So the luck of the draw balances itselves out over 20 people.

[Nadiru]

These changes aren't intended to put a kibosh on split runs, they're intended to make split runs not as useful for high end guilds. By putting all raid loot under the rules of personal loot, Blizzard is increasing the effective time to payout for split runs, where the payout is being able to redirect a complete or semi-complete set of gear to an alt. With ML, you just redirect loot to the person who needs it in a split run. With PL, there's an added factor of whether the game will even allow you to redirect loot, and the first split run of a tier is always the least rewarding, which is what really punishes high end guild split runs.

[kamuimac]

Not everyone is going to contribute to the kill as much as others, particularly trials brought into a farm boss (but arguably even some "raiders" who can't perform up to standards and might be on their way out). Do you understand how trialing works? You don't deserve anything when being carried through content a guild has on farm while testing your capabilities, especially if you're trash and aren't going to make the cut. Or decide you don't want to be there, for whatever reason. Great, you come in to be tested, get gear the guild still needs, and peace. Awesome. Fuck that.

if a person contribute even a 1 % to the kill he deserves fair share - only surprised devs took so long to act against such obvious toxic behaviours in game.

very good change

- - - Updated - - -

Once again, if people want to raid mythic, they are raiding mythic. There are different common blocks (Not wanting to commit so often to the game, not wanting to go through the stress of progress, etc.) which are all valid reasons. I just can't see how the loot system is one of them. "I want to join a mythic guild, but I may have to wait 2 weeks to start getting gear above main raiders, I better not run any mythic then" <--- does that sound like something real and reasonable?

Your argument is actually worrisome because it comes down to "I may be able to get a piece of loot I probably don't deserve and I'm going to quit this guild anyways". This is an argument AGAINST removing ML, not in favour of it!

you are mistake - trialling work both way - but not surprised because iits very common behaviour and misconception

you are acting as if the guild was the only entity to check the player who applies when its fault - player applying is also checking out the guild , how they behve how they interact and if he decided that its a toic shithole filled with people who behaves liek 12 year olds he has full right to leave even after 1 raid night

its time to abolish the regime of people having to jump over hoops in order to get invited into guilds

this is the reason why most of players when hearing guild says "no thank you cba to deal with toxic people"

thats why guilds have such bad name in game - because they treat new guildies like cannonfodder not as actual people

[Nnyco]

master looter shouldnt be removed, there should be a choice what youre doin and if you dont like what your guild is pulling then leave instead of tryin to change the system

Method is like the only guild that requires 5+ characters per player. Banning that kind of behavior seems reasonable. Anything to make the playing field more fair. Maybe we'd see more new blood.

The issue with split raiding isnt how fast a raid is cleared, it's how unfair it is to new potential WF raiders.

if thats the case then that would be an idiotic reason to remove somethin because a very tiny group did somethin bad with it

[Caaethil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nWMlxf4lI

I've never disagreed more with a video. Why are high end raiders complaining their taking Master loot away? I thought high end raiders hated being forced to do split runs? Don't guilds like Method hate running 5+ characters through heroic every week? Wouldn't forcing personal loot make it easier for other guilds to compete with method? Why are people complaining about removing Master loot as an option? Aren't you tired of Method winning every single race? Don't you want more people to take up high end raiding?

What's wrong with forcing it for a few weeks until a few guilds have killed the final boss on mythic? Or restricting heroic clears per account during the WF race and banning account sharing players?

Nobody cares about the WF race. Master Looter is useful to tons of people. Nobody wants that gone just to make the WF race more interesting. Why is it difficult to understand that one of these is obviously more important?

[Basileus]

Nobody's talking about rando's. Fixing the system so that you don't have to be paid a living wage to breathe by your government in order to have the time to compete would allow for a real race inside the top 10-15, instead of the top two and occasional surprise Russian guest-star. Unless you're trying to argue that the players in Blood Legion were just too lazy and intellectually inferior "becuz 'Murica! hurrrrr"

But this isn't going to fix the system. High end guilds have already found a way to get around the fix, and even if that didn't exist, we would just see the top two forcing their members to have even more alts to split clear with.

Also, I'm American so your BL comment is sort of stupid. BL lost because they had worse players than Method and Exorsus, it had nothing to do with being too lazy. They just weren't as good, plain and simple.

[siskokid21]

Problem is that forcing personal loot doesn't even fix the problem, in fact it creates a very similiar situation that we had in legion with Legendaries on launch. Now instead of running split runs to gear 1 main, you effectively are going to be forced to roll 3-5 of the same class, just to play whichever one gets the best RNG drops. Literally the same exact thing that happened in legion, except your not going for legendary RNG this time.

[Torrasque]

lemme just say i don't pay attention to BFA because i wanna go in blind for once.

and again like i said secondary stats later in the game will mean more and more down the line.

Then why are you even in a SPECULATION THREAD about Alpha when you want to go in blind?

thats not what i said i said that if you make a guild and people join they follow YOUR rules. you don't like it? then don't join. if they screw you over then find another guild. they will need to find someone else to replace you. it's not a hard concept to understand

That's entirely the problem with it though, it is currently being used, en masse, by a large number of people to steal loot from others, and it's a growing issue among the community that has been growing in its petition for a while over the last two expansions. That said, people that have guild-orientated groups, generally, never encounter these issues because they have had the same group for long, extended periods of time. The issue with people attempting to join new groups or people starting out with raiding altogether which is massively growing population of the game with how much attention Blizzard is putting into making raiding more and more accessible.

rules made by people are enforced because they made it. they organize it. so they as leaders have the decision-right. i don't see how my logic is flawed. and the guilds i joined as an example never "stole" if the rule is raider have prio over you thats something i know before going to join. that's it. thats not stealing.

That's exactly the problem with it, it being used as a tool to steal loot from large majorities of the playerbase. It's growing issue as well as an issue that directly opposes the Dev's desire to make raiding more available to people.

like i said before regardless of that crafted gear should be a stepping stone into raiding. not dictate progress. that's whats heroic and mythic are for. and like i said master loot is a TOOL to get raiders geared up in a guaranteed way instead of relying on RNG which they are trying to avoid.

That's ignoring the facts, though, which I've mentioned already. Sticking your head in the dirt or plugging your ears to the changes that are already implemented in the alpha doesn't magically make you right.

i said what my opinion was. thats what i said before posting this. and several times into the post.
and i don't ignore anything im taking it at face value from what is in legion right now. regardless of how BFA turns out Master loot is in my OPINION a fundamental part for guild progress. and taking it away adds a layer of RNG that people would HATE the fuck out of.

You obviously aren't listening or reading what I'm posting if you honestly think this... As I mentioned already, the vast magority of RNG is ALREADY GONE from the Alpha. Titanforging, gone. All tertiary procs, multiplied in reducing their effectiveness and increasing rarity not making them "viable" upgrades anymore. Set bonus and Tier, gone. Raid ilvl gear is going to be craftable. All secondary stats will be mostly useless compared to primary stats making same ilvl variations of gear nearly identical in value. And much MUCH more that negates RNG. Most to nearly all RNG is gone from BFA. This is why Master Looter will matter so little in regards to your point, as well as proof that you've been directly ignoring my points nearly entirely.

you might not realize it now but this is a fact that people have been getting fucked over by RNG personal loot in raids including myself. to ignore that is being a stubborn person that would be a yes man to anything blizzard would say.

Proof that you haven't read a word of my posts.

that being said i'll give you what you want and actually give a positive thing about PL.

Faster to go progress next boss.
people cant "ninja"
puts split runs in an even more boring position.

You honestly can't read can you, or do you simply choose not to? That isn't even stated anywhere in my posts...

[crusadernero]

Well we have the option to use different kind of loot options. Now they want to remove Master loot, limiting the choices. Ofc its bad.

[Faenavi]

I mean, I'd be 100% fine with personal loot being standard if they allowed bonus roll loot to be traded.

I like that idea

[HuxNeva]

Why do you care so much if people do split runs? It's a fucking game. If people want to burn out doing them just to try for world first then that's there choice.

I guess it is sort of the same as to why you ban drugs in sport. People will destroy themselves for fame and profit, so you try to device constraints on extreme destructive behaviour through regulation of the game rules.

[alucardtnuoc]

Instead of passing loot to mains, they will take all their alts and whichever ones get lucky will be the ones they focus on bringing.

This doesn't solve the issue at all, it just makes them do a different method.

[Airwaves]

Unless you are in the top 100 loot isn't that big of a deal and isn't the reason why you are failing bosses. The way it drops is irrelevant.

[kamuimac]

Because high end raiders raid in a guild, and master loot, with the ability of gearing a raid to your choosing, gives a sense of accomplishment as a guild, and not as an individual who got blessed by fucking RNG and got a random chest piece which isn't even good for you, but you can't trade because it's 5 item levels higher than your current piece.

Progressing through mythic content is much more than just showing up to raid.

And if you think fucking Master Loot will make it so more guilds compete with Method, then you are absolutely delusional. Method will just run 4 Hunters on each Hunter, and use the one that gets the best loot, or some shit of the sort. Blizzard (and you) are trying to solve a "problem" with ways they will always find loopholes to. Stop trying. And above ALL, stop screwing the rest of us because you want 5 guilds to stop split running raids.

My real question is: why do non-mythic raiders want to remove master loot so much? If you don't like it don't use it, let the rest of us have our master loot.

a)clearly its too much of "more then showing to raid"
b)clearly its to powerfull and needs to be stopped

very good change which will allow raids to be much more accesible to normal people

[PaladinBash]

Loot councils, legitimate or 'totally not GM and their mates council', really don't like it.

[Pua]

Blizzard (and you) are trying to solve a "problem" with ways they will always find loopholes to.

While I don't care for your completely unprovoked tone, I think what you're saying is probably true.

Competitive guilds will do absolutely anything in order to remain competitive. Time simply isn't a resource that they view the way we do. For that reason, Asmongold is right because competitive guilds are the 1% of the 1% that cares about top-difficulty raiding, and they'll do what it takes to get the edge that other guilds won't. This, in turn, will force the other top guilds to mimic behaviours that stop them from falling behind on matters other than their group's ability to play the game.

Removing Master Loot, to my mind, will not change that behaviour. And, in fact, it may have the opposite effect of making the competitive scene even more demanding to the top percentage, with an eventual tipping point where they all dial out rushing into view. As we know, Mythic raids need no help in turning players off - they already do, to the extent that almost the entire playerbase chooses to completely ignore them. There's a problem with recruitment into top guilds, because new players generally haven't the experience and skill to do well in them, which means they're aimed at an ever shrinking percentage of longer-term players.

Any change to that dynamic runs the risk of making Mythic raiding even more irrelevant than it already is.

As for ninja looting, I have to confess that I'm not sure what this change will achieve. If I join a group with Master Loot, I request that they change it or I leave. There are plenty more "me's" looking for a group spot who will take the risk of the best items being funneled to someone else. And because of the restrictions already placed on Master Loot, removing it doesn't actually make this particular scenario less likely because guilds are supposed to trust one another.

From what I can see, this will hurt the more family-friendly guilds that play together, are generally loyal to that one group, and aren't going to be pushing bleeding-edge content any time soon. They have a Master Loot/council set up so that they can chat about items, agree who should probably get it, and then distribute it. Guilds like these are chuffed to see their buddies gearing up and, unless I'm misunderstanding, they're about to get told they can't do it anymore.

Honestly?

I expect this to change. Not because of a community outcry or anything, I just don't think it's been terribly well thought through.

very good change which will allow raids to be much more accesible to normal people

For the avoidance of doubt, it'll do nothing (absolutely nothing) to get new players into competitive guilds. Honestly, it won't. In fact, due to the lowered control of item distribution, it may make it even harder for someone to break into a top guild, because the guild is behind on its usual gearing level.

Unless you are in the top 100 loot isn't that big of a deal and isn't the reason why you are failing bosses. The way it drops is irrelevant.

I actually disagree, but I know why you potentially think this.

From my perspective, the top players are in no danger of losing their raid spots. They've been with guilds for years, their team knows what they bring to the group, and they can be absolutely relied upon to show up and play their best. Rogerbrown isn't getting shunted out for R@nd0mHunt71 because of a few item levels.

Those below the competitive scene, those with less time and (potentially) skill at playing the game, NEED loot to kill bosses. It's their biggest stumbling block the majority of the time. So while I agree that execution is the problem with most groups, we need to understand that most groups simply cannot bring perfect execution to the table.

Gear matters to them.

[Notshauna]

I guess it is sort of the same as to why you ban drugs in sport. People will destroy themselves for fame and profit, so you try to device constraints on extreme destructive behaviour through regulation of the game rules.

The issue is that this does nothing to actually stop split runs, it just means that the number of split runs needs to go up. Personal loot by it's very nature makes split runs FAR more important as it comes with the cost of gear drops being much higher variance. All the top guilds will run split runs until their raid team has the gear they want to have. Making it more difficult will only make it worse. The only way you can actively fight this is by making it not as beneficial, ie Mythic Nighthold gear is the same ilvl as Heroic Tomb. What this would do is make split runs only a thing for content on farm (which is universal) and the first week of the introductory raid.

Here's my two cents, I don't like PL because it simply makes getting loot boring. With the various loot systems based off master loot you likely spend some time thinking about what loot you want and what the needs of the other players in the party/raid are, with PL you just kill bosses and have a sim add on tell you if it's an upgrade or not, and you vendor/DE if you are an enchanter if it isn't. Even if you ignore the profoundly stupid RNG bullshit that is Legion's loot you still don't consider anything because PL has taken over everywhere but in serious guilds. You either get the loot or you don't, there is no role you or anyone else has in deciding that outside of bonus rolls. Plus it's undeniably more interesting to see loot when you kill a boss rather than it just appearing in your bag.

[Ssateneth]

This is not going to kill split runs. It's just going to make split runs about armor type stacking. All plate, then all mail (except tanks), then all leather, then all cloth (except tanks)

[Sencha]

Loot should be personal and untradable.