The most evil class lorewise

[Shammyrock]

Warlocks seem to be the default villain class.

DHs aren't really good or evil.

DKs are kinda similar but were forced to be evil

Shadow priests are just insane aren't they?

[ONCHEhap]

If we exclude Legion's poor DK writing that litterally took a massive dump on the lore of the Ebon blade,I'd say warlock
If not,I'd say DK

That's only including the ones in the poll,rogues are probably up there as well

[Josyel]

Mages are the most evil class lore-wise.

We got Arugal, Medivh, Kel'thuzad and Jaina.

[Anoikis]

I kill you with my holy light - You have to be the good guy so yes please...
I drain your life and kill you - You sinister evil... go fuck off
... I'm dead

[jackofwind]

But Death Knights aren't evil because they are undead. They are evil because of what they chose to do after becoming undead (and freeing themselves from the Lich King).




First Death Knights only share a name with the Scourge ones. And Demon Hunters also caused destruction on a planetary scale. Illidan blew up Nathreza.




But the exact same applies to the Warlock campaign.




Ah, yeah, didn't even think of that. With the Scepter still in their possession the Legion would open a fuckton more portals and overrun the world. As such Warlock quests had the biggest impact in protecting Azeroth.




*Talks about how the subject is the Class and not just player characters* *Talks only about the player campaign for Death Knights and utterly ignores the genocidal maniac Arthas*




Again, they only share a name. And if you want to look for a root cause of all calamities on Azeroth and Draenor, it'd be Azshara bringing the Legion to Azeroth.




And what's evil in sacrificing their own life energy? And what difference exists between that and Demon Hunters who, you know, use Fel as well?




By these specific criteria there's no difference between them and DKs.

You're just mixing together the things I said that were replies to specific people. When I was talking about the DK campaign it was because someone else brought it up.

Ner'zhul's destruction of Draenor alone far surpasses anything Arthas ever did.

Warlocks inventing and creating the first Death Knights (I know they're different) by infusing the defiled corpses of human soldiers with the souls of warlocks is a far more evil plot and magic invention than just raising the dead to fight again. Even if you don't think it's more evil, it would at least be the same as what Arthas was doing - except that Warlocks have wrought so much more destruction in addition.

The discussion isn't about player characters it's about the class as a whole. There is no substantive evidence to suggest any of the classes have had as grandiose evil plans as Warlocks. The corruptive nature of the energies that Warlocks deal with almost invariably lead them to extravagant levels of evil.

The fact is that all of this stuff is backed up in the Chronicles and the in-game lore. Warlocks by and large have done the most evil stuff on the largest scale (barring Azshara as a mage after she was corrupted by Sargeras - her being one of the most evil individuals in the lore. Interestingly, she's a mage-gone-bad who made a pact with a demon - seems awfully similar to the way a certain other class operates).

If you want to provide sources and quotes as I have feel free to do so. You won't be able to refute my statement, and without basing your argument in actual lore you're just giving your personal opinion to a question where there is an objective answer.

[Schattenlied]

then u missing the point
if someone wants to be evil, he doesn't become dk, that part is done by the Lich King who kill u and raise u against ur will
the only option available for someone who is evil and wants to do evil stuff is to be warlock

Wrong, that is not the point... The point is what are they doing currently. DK's may have been forced to be evil when they were created, but no one is forcing them anymore, they have their minds, they are in complete control of themselves, they could have decided to use this power for good, to attempt to atone for what they were forced to do while under Arthas' control, but they chose to be evil instead, and not only are they choosing to be evil, they are choosing to be far more evil than Warlocks are.

[jackofwind]

they are choosing to be far more evil than Warlocks are.

The playable ones are. NPC Warlocks have and are still doing way worse shit. A little bit less so now that Gul'dan is dead (again).

[Sett]

Death Knights. Warlocks get a lot of negative attention with so many in their ranks becoming bosses. To me warlocks are casters that don't want to play by the rules and want all the knowledge they possibly can get to become strong. That doesn't make someone evil however aquiring that power has a huge cost. Not to mention the good ol' power corrupts issue.

Death Knights in Legion turned from stoic guardians to complete douchebags who think they're above everyone. Not even (most) Demon Hunters are this arrogant.

[Deleted]

"I was just following orders" has never been an acceptable excuse, they should have known better, the "Deathlord" especially, they should have known to tell Bolvar to fuck off, and went to their respective faction leaders, and the other Order hall leaders, and told them that Bolvar had lost his fucking mind and needed to be put down.

They could have stopped the invasion of Lights Hope, and the slaughter of the Red Dragons, the betrayal of their allies from happening, they chose instead to participate in those betrayals, and for that they share equal responsibility for those atrocities. They should be put to death for it, just like the one giving the orders. I find it absolutely absurd that they suffered no repercussions for their actions in Legion.

The deathlord IS the class hall leader, and has no obligation to report to any of the faction leaders (since theorically the Ebon Blade has always been a faction on his own, and players are forced into either Horde or Alliance for gameplay purposes) as both factions are in fact absent for the entire war.

Also, the Ebon Blade was mostly against assaulting LHC, even Darion points this out immediately after you tell him, but they couldn't just break their agreement with Bolvar. Since pragmatism has been a staple since the Ebon Blade was formed, a few dead paladins don't really matter in front of the possibility to raise Tirion as an horsemen all while preveting the Lich King to unleash the Scourge on the Broken Isle.

The Red Flight massacre is not even canon, Blizzard removed the achievement. We might need more clarification from them, but we can assume their stance will be a middle ground where the deahtlord had to kill some dragons in order to get the informations he wanted, but not many. And again, a few dead dragons hanging out in Northrend doing nothing don't really matter much when confronted with a powerful ancient dragon actually used in the fight against the Legion.

[Schattenlied]

The deathlord IS the class hall leader, and has no obligation to report to any of the faction leaders

If Bolvar is off his rocker, and he is, they would be wise to get assistance before ICC 2.0.

Also, the Ebon Blade was mostly against assaulting LHC, even Darion points this out immediately after you tell him, but they couldn't just break their agreement with Bolvar.

Yes they could, nothing was stopping them.

all while preveting the Lich King to unleash the Scourge on the Broken Isle.

How about "stand the fuck down or we'll get everyone on the planet to come back here and murder the shit out of you".

The Red Flight massacre is not even canon, Blizzard removed the achievement.

The Whelps killed by the Deathlord were the last remaining from the Red Dragonflight, removing the achievement doesn't change that.

deahtlord had to kill some dragons in order to get the informations he wanted

"had", no, he didn't.

And again, a few dead dragons hanging out in Northrend doing nothing don't really matter much when confronted with a powerful ancient dragon actually used in the fight against the Legion.

Yeah, fuck the future of an entire dragonflight, let's get ONE dragon on our side instead of going to them peacefully and saying "hey, we could use your help on the broken isles", no, let's go in and say "hey, tell me where this big dragon is so I can raise it into undeath against it's will or I'll kill you"... Totally not evil at alll.

[Deleted]

Warlocks.
I mean, for some of the abilities you literally use someone's soul as a fuel. (soul shards)

[Khaza-R]

Demon Hunters don’t strike me as evil. If anything they are more like edgy matyrs. They are chaotic good imo

Rogues deserve to be on that list. Killing people for profit with no remorse is pretty fucked up.

Warlocks and Death Knights are about the same in my opinion. They both use forbidden, sacrilegious magic to gain power. At best they use this magic for good, but still summoning demons, consuming souls and raising people into undeath is generally considering as a dick move no matter the outcome

Shadow Priests would be the worst in my opinion. They seem to be okay with letting the insanity of the void consume them and generally inflicting mental torture and domination on others. I would say at best they are chaotic neutral and at worst chaotic evil

[Scathbais]

Warlocks - selfish lust for power, but not evil per se. I main a Warlock btw.
Demon Hunters - selfless lust for power. Self sacrifice to become powerful enough to face the Legion menace.
Shadow Priests - you would have to argue that the void is inherently evil, which I am not prepared to do.
Death Knights - truly evil in my opinion. Having played through the DK artifact weapon quests on my alt, I never before quite understood how evil they were. E.g. the quest to obtain a leader for their dragon undead: murder one and raise it as a DK. Completely psychopathic.

Pretty funny, my only leveled toons are a Warlock, DK, and Demon Hunter. My shadow priest is in the low 100's.

[Deleted]

If Bolvar is off his rocker, and he is, they would be wise to get assistance before ICC 2.0.
Yes they could, nothing was stopping them.

How about "stand the fuck down or we'll get everyone on the planet to come back here and murder the shit out of you".
The Whelps killed by the Deathlord were the last remaining from the Red Dragonflight, removing the achievement doesn't change that.
"had", no, he didn't.


Yeah, fuck the future of an entire dragonflight, let's get ONE dragon on our side instead of going to them peacefully and saying "hey, we could use your help on the broken isles", no, let's go in and say "hey, tell me where this big dragon is so I can raise it into undeath against it's will or I'll kill you"... Totally not evil at alll.

You're really a terrible tactician, aren't you.
Fighting BOTH the Legion and the Scourge at the same time, just to save a dozen of paladins and a few dragons (dragons that, again, did absolutely nothing against the Legion), sounds like a plan someone who really wants to lose would make. Many more would have died if the Ebon Blade didn't acet the way they did, and it would have probably costed us the war.
And maybe I'll repeat myself, but the red flight massacre DIDN'T happen. Nowhere Blizzard confirmed that the deahtlord killed the whelpling or any dragon at all. For now it's up to the player (and if you want, you can get to the book by killing no more than 6 dragons in total), but we have no official statement from Blizzard.
Also as a side note, the future of the red dragonflight is no concern for us. Their disappearing from Azeroth would change nothing for the mortal races.

[Schattenlied]

You're really a terrible tactician, aren't you.
Fighting BOTH the Legion and the Scourge at the same time

IF Bolvar doesn't back down after being threatened with annihilation. Which he should definitely still get, his actions are inexcusable.



Do you really think what the DKs did was all that held the Legion off? Do you really think the DK's couldn't have just marched into ICC and shit all over Bolvar to make him stop? Or have just done it the second he said he was gonna use the Scourge on the Broken Isle, before he even had a chance to do it? We had 2 raids in Legion that had nothing to do with the Legion (and one of them, ToV, was entirely irrelevant), do you really think the rest of us didn't have time to march in there with them?

Sounds like a plan someone who really wants to lose would make.

And yours sounds like a plan someone who really wants to lose every ally they have and get murdered by them later would make.

and it would have probably costed us the war.

Doubt that very seriously.

but we have no official statement from Blizzard.

It's in the game, that is as official as it gets

Also as a side note, the future of the red dragonflight is no concern for us. Their disappearing from Azeroth would change nothing for the mortal races.

They are OUR ALLIES , how is them getting killed off, especially by someone else who is supposed to be our and their ally, NOT a concern? It not only costs us the Red Dragons as an ally, but also proves the Death Knights cannot be trusted, and should make them no longer our allies.

Holy shit you're dense.



If Blizzard's shitty writing didn't force forgiveness I would have taken the Silver Hand and whatever forces from both the Horde and Alliance who would join me (and they likely would, Anduin definitely wouldn't tolerate that shit, and Liadrin would be able to appeal to the Horde very easily since she was nearly killed as well) and marched into Ebon Hold and put them all to the sword after they invaded Light's Hope.

[Deleted]

IF Bolvar doesn't back down after being threatened with annihilation. Which he should definitely still get, his actions are inexcusable.


And yours sounds like a plan someone who really wants to lose every ally they have and get murdered by them later would make.

Doubt that very seriously.


It's in the game, that is as official as it gets



They are OUR ALLIES , how is them getting killed off NOT a concern? Holy shit you're dense.

Threating Bolvar, really? What have we been discussing till now?
If the Ebon Blade refused to obey he would have IMMEDIATELY dispatched the entire Scourge on the Broken Isle. Have you not played WotLK? Do you really think we could have been able to fend off the Legion and the Scourge at the same time? You're delusional. Even if we could manage that, many more would have died than a few paladins and dragons.

And stop with the red dragonflight thing, you're being ridicoulus. It's not in the game, it's only in your head. Blizzard removed the achievement to prevent the massacre being made canon (and because apparently if was unfair to other classes). You're the only one believeng the deathlord killed all the dragons. I keep repeating myself, but until Blizzard makes an official statement, it's only up to the player what to do. You can kill all of them, kill just a few, or none.
If Blizzard ever makes an official statement where the deathlord killed all the dragons, it's still his personal responsibiliy and not the entire Ebon Blade.

Also, the only one who have reasons to be pissed at the Ebon Blade are the paladins and the red dragonflight. The other class orders and organizations scattered across Azeroth have no reason to be against them, much less to wage war.

[Schattenlied]

If the Ebon Blade refused to obey he would have IMMEDIATELY dispatched the entire Scourge on the Broken Isle.

Or they could have killed him on the spot for being a colossal douchebag and he wouldn't have been able to send the scourge anywhere.

Blizzard removed the achievement to prevent the massacre being made canon (and because apparently if was unfair to other classes).

They clearly intended it to be. They removed the achievement to stop people whining, that's it.

Also, the only one who have reasons to be pissed at the Ebon Blade are the paladins and the red dragonflight. The other class orders and organizations scattered across Azeroth have no reason to be against them, much less to wage war.

Yeah, no you're right, the Death Knights murdering their allies is totally not cause for concern to anyone else who is allied with them or allied with the people they just murdered... Not at all. Anduin totally has no cause for concern over Bolvar, the man who raised him, turining into a complete psychopath, none at all.

Holy

Shit

You're

Dense.


And then we just conveniently forget all about these atrocities after Legion, and they suffer no consequences for their actions, because #blizzardisshitatwriting.

[Deleted]

Or they could have killed him on the spot for being a colossal douchebag and he wouldn't have been able to send the scourge anywhere.

They clearly intended it to be. They removed the achievement to stop people whining, that's it.


Yeah, no you're right, the Death Knights murdering their allies is totally not cause for concern to anyone else who is allied with them or allied with the people they just murdered... Not at all.

Holy

Shit

You're

Dense.

You're mirror climbing in an embarassing way. That's why you have to resort to personal insult.

You have very obviously not played WotLK, because even in the remote possibility that the Ebon Blade could have taken Bolvar and the Scourge alone, and defeated him, we know that without someone being the Lich King the Scourge around Azeroth would go berserk. Until now Bolvar has kept his promise to hold the Scourge, and has never broke his pact with the Ebon Blade. There is absolutely no reason to piss him off and risk a war on two fronts.

Are you a Blizzard employee? Or a dev? Because unless you are, your "they clearly intended it to be" it's again only your headcanon. If and when Blizzard will make an official statement, we will know if the deathlord really did condemn to extincion the red dragonflight or not. Until then, it's not canon. Moving on.

And finally, tell me again why the warlock class order, or the demon hunter one or any of the other neutral organization would have to wage war on the Ebon Blade, and risk their members lives, on behalf of the paladins. You're either very young, naive, or probably both, considering all your previous statements.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

But Death Knights aren't evil because they are undead. They are evil because of what they chose to do after becoming undead (and freeing themselves from the Lich King).

Assuming they've still got free will. The acherus is still the acherus. The lich king is still the lich king. Even if freed, they're still under the thumbs of the new lich king. Their freedom is only an illusion.

Beside, isn't it Warlocks who created death knights in the first place?

Something to think about.

[Schattenlied]

You're mirror climbing in an embarassing way. That's why you have to resort to personal insult.

If you're being dense I'm gonna call you dense, that's not an insult, it's a fact.

You have very obviously not played WotLK, because even in the remote possibility that the Ebon Blade could have taken Bolvar and the Scourge alone, and defeated him

They don't need to "take the scourge", they could just fly the ebon hold up to the top of Icecrown and bypass the scourge entirely, hell the player character DK could have just shanked him with their artifact at the start of the expansion, when they were alone with him and he was completely defenseless... FFS they could just fly the Ebon Hold over to ICC and land it on him if they wanted to.

we know that without someone being the Lich King the Scourge around Azeroth would go berserk.

Ok, so someone else who's not a fucking nutter puts the helmet on and keeps them in check.

Not to mention, it's been how long? 8 years since Bolvar put the helmet on? You telling me he, the guy wearing the helmet of the damned, which gives him complete dominion over the scourge, hasn't found a way to just get the remaining undead to kill eachother off yet? Or release them, and give them back their souls and freewill like the Forsaken? I call bullshit on that. The very existence of the Forsaken is proof that the "damned" don't need to be jailed.

Until now Bolvar has kept his promise to hold the Scourge

Until now. Until now he was fit for his position, now he is not.

There is absolutely no reason to piss him off and risk a war on two fronts.

There is no risk of war, just kill him, and it's over.

"they clearly intended it to be" it's again only your headcanon.

They removed it because "it wasnt fair to the other classes", you said. That's not 'we changed our minds, we don't want all the red dragons to die", it's "this wasn't fair to the other classes".

"We’d decided some time ago that it didn’t really fit in line with our philosophies regarding achievements, particularly due to the non-repeatable nature of the Class Mount questline."

^THAT is why it was removed, no other reason. That is the blue post.

And finally, tell me again why the warlock class order, or the demon hunter one or any of the other neutral organization would have to wage war on the Ebon Blade, and risk their members lives, on behalf of the paladins.

Can you not grasp the concept of a defensive alliance?