Master Looter

[Emerald Archer]

Source please? The only thing I know about this is that whatever was the highest iLvl piece you ever obtained FOR THAT SLOT, that's the highest you can trade. If that was changed, I would love an official source that confirms what I said is wrong.

There isn't an official source, as it was a stealth change that went widely un-noticed. You'll just have to test it for yourself, and you'll see it's changed

[Polarthief]

There isn't an official source, as it was a stealth change that went widely un-noticed. You'll just have to test it for yourself, and you'll see it's changed

I don't think I'll get anything high enough iLvl from any activity of Personal Loot until next expansion to test

[Emerald Archer]

I don't think I'll get anything high enough iLvl from any activity of Personal Loot until next expansion to test

Got a boost or an alt that's like 880ilvl? can test in lfr I think

[Deleted]

You seem to be mistaking my inability to be online to instantly reply to absolutely everyone in a moment's manner. That is a fallacy within itself, mind you. You may have the ability to play online on regular constant basis, but not everyone else does possess that privilege. You should consider such before attempting to gauge whomever you're speaking to before mouthing off with your baseless assertions. For stating such malcontent about "spewing false information" as you say, perhaps you should take your own advice before assuming falsities about people.

That said, you are wrong in stating that I am above accepting truth when it is presented properly. You were right, in that case, you did prove that it is possible to have unique master looter capabilities as a guild leader. However, it would behove you to state that you have proven any other of your claims, which still require an adequate response that you have neglected to reveil proof for. Simply providing proof for a single claim doesn't dismiss the rest, I'm certain that you'd be aware of that, unless your intent was to sweep that fact under the rug, so to speak. What say you?

You are the one making statements without providing proof. Don't turn this around, it doesn't work this way. One of your main arguments was based on a falsehood, which is enough to disprove a lot of what you said.

So let's review this:

* One of your main arguments was based on a falsehood.

* You have provided no proof whatsoever for any of your other claims.

The verdict is clear. You have no knowledge, no credibility and your posts are filled with filler in an attempt to make yourself sound smart. As simple as that. I don't even know what that priority to "play online on a regular basis" comes from. Is that an attempt to justify why would I defend ML over PL? Because that'd just reinforce my points on who's in favour of removing ML.

[kamuimac]

Also, ML won't be gone. The title will be, but all that personal loot is just going to get traded to the RL, and they'll pass it out. Same as normal master loot. So it's a lose-lose. Master loot stays, but now those using it have to spend an extra few minutes handing it out.

If i were you i would be very careful with statements like this since its very close from removing ML to making all loot non tradable to protected playera from abuse like this from guilds. What you say is also proving that mythic guilds treat its member as nothing else but a Cannon fodder since they are nothing but tools for you to get the gear to butt buddies of loot councils proving how corrupted ML is

[Emerald Archer]

What you say is also proving that mythic guilds treat its member as nothing else but a Cannon fodder since they are nothing but tools for you to get the gear to butt buddies of loot councils proving how corrupted ML is

That's not at all what it is, it's just the same thing as before, all loot in raid is passed out via a fair and just loot council, the only difference is the RAIDS loot, has to be traded from players to the RL.

If the pre-set plan is that personal loot goes to a RL to pass it out, it's not that persons personal loot being passed to the RL, it's the raids loot. Any any reasonable raider will see that.

Also, this whole "Corrupt loot council" isn't nearly as common as people say it is. A lot of the time it's just people salty they didn't get an item. And just because some guilds do this, doesn't make the overall masterloot system toxic or corrupt.

[Grimnakh]

If you ask you local politicians/building associations/school board members/alumni associations leaders/clergy ect ect if theres a big problem with a corrupt process within thier institution most will say no about thier specific area, but usually say its bad everywhere else. If you feel like youre in the in-group of the loot councils youre gonna hink ots mostly fair, if youre not or you left guilds because of it and went casual youre gonna think its corrupt. As a rule people usually suck, and people with power suck more.

[Time Sage]

The FACT that some people deserve loot more than others (better performance, attendence etc) makes master loot the only good loot system. If it's removed, we are looking at a communist game that's completely unfair.

No one deserves loot. You show up, you get a chance at loot determined by a random number generator. It's always been that way.

[shaunika123]

No one deserves loot. You show up, you get a chance at loot determined by a random number generator. It's always been that way.

deserving loot =/= deserving it MORE than someone else.

when it's already dropped it's no longer random.

I dont want to play in a game where someone who just "shows up" has the same chance for a good loot as someone who puts in 110%

a game not rewarding performance, skill and dedication isnt even a game. it's literally just a participation trophy generator software.
why would I be motivated to perform better than everyone if I dont get to reap the benefits of it?

It appears to many people feel trhat their officers are up to date on every peice of loot per spec by sims. Also people have to much fair in human nature.

they dont need to be, you literally need like 2 minutes to sim the item for everyone, and decide who benefits the most from it.
you can even link the raidbots links to your sims

which is what we do on particularly sensitive pieces of loot(as well as the obvious routine of "is it your bis piece?" and the actual player performance weighs in too)

[Torrasque]

You are the one making statements without providing proof. Don't turn this around, it doesn't work this way. One of your main arguments was based on a falsehood, which is enough to disprove a lot of what you said.

So let's review this:

* One of your main arguments was based on a falsehood.

* You have provided no proof whatsoever for any of your other claims.

The verdict is clear. You have no knowledge, no credibility and your posts are filled with filler in an attempt to make yourself sound smart. As simple as that. I don't even know what that priority to "play online on a regular basis" comes from. Is that an attempt to justify why would I defend ML over PL? Because that'd just reinforce my points on who's in favour of removing ML.

You seem to not even know what my claims are. You "quote" me as false, but you use exactly zero reference material other than the single point of many that you have made against Guild Leaders having unique.

So, tell me. What are my stances? Do you even know, because you reply with no actual reference other than "you're wrong!" How about you put your own money where your mouth is and cease your own lies.

[Emerald Archer]

If you ask you local politicians/building associations/school board members/alumni associations leaders/clergy ect ect if theres a big problem with a corrupt process within thier institution most will say no about thier specific area, but usually say its bad everywhere else. If you feel like youre in the in-group of the loot councils youre gonna hink ots mostly fair, if youre not or you left guilds because of it and went casual youre gonna think its corrupt. As a rule people usually suck, and people with power suck more.

Or maybe not everyone fits into one of those two boxes, maybe some people can actually be impartial. I'm somewhat new to my guild, passed trial a few months ago (During trial I got no loot, as is to be expected) and I've had no issues with how any loot has been handed out in Antorus. My guild prior on the other hand, was very bad for trying to sneak loot to friends over people who clearly should have gotten it. But every guild prior to that, we never had masterloot issues.

I can see the difference between when it's working, and when the system is being abused.

Don't get me wrong, outside of top 200 I see personal loot as typically the better route, because you get guilds less progression focused and more gear/long term raid completion focused (in general) which leads to more corruption and friend favouring.

But when you're higher up in ranks, people often don't put up with that shit, being corrupt is actively slowing progression and people can see that, and move on.

It's not black and white, there isn't only "the corrupt" and "the victims".

[Leodric]

You seem to be mistaking my inability to be online to instantly reply to absolutely everyone in a moment's manner. That is a fallacy within itself, mind you. You may have the ability to play online on regular constant basis, but not everyone else does possess that privilege. You should consider such before attempting to gauge whomever you're speaking to before mouthing off with your baseless assertions. For stating such malcontent about "spewing false information" as you say, perhaps you should take your own advice before assuming falsities about people.

That said, you are wrong in stating that I am above accepting truth when it is presented properly. You were right, in that case, you did prove that it is possible to have unique master looter capabilities as a guild leader. However, it would behove you to state that you have proven any other of your claims, which still require an adequate response that you have neglected to reveil proof for. Simply providing proof for a single claim doesn't dismiss the rest, I'm certain that you'd be aware of that, unless your intent was to sweep that fact under the rug, so to speak. What say you?

You sure do like to talk a lot even though he did prove you wrong

[Torrasque]

You sure do like to talk a lot even though he did prove you wrong

Only on a single aspect, which is one of many. Surely you're intelligent enough to know that proving one moot point, one that isn't even relevant to the argument, no less, doesn't disprove the main point of the argument to begin with.

[Vynny]

This argument is a nonsense because if people start abusing others like this Blizzard will just lock all loot trading. Which they should do from very start so people stop behing like 12 year olds about every 0.05 % upgrade

That's brilliant, so you're saying that it'd be an improvement to not be able to trade loot that is randomly dealt out to people thus leading to people getting drops that they don't want or need but their teammates do.

I say: "Hey look guys, I just got this ring with a shit ton of versatility on it which sucks because vers is terrible for me"
Tank says: "Well versatility is actually pretty good for me, mind giving it to me"
Blizzard says: "No, you can't be allowed to give loot to people! Go disenchant that piece while your tank cries in a corner over what could have been!"

Yeah, it's hyperbolic, but anyone who thinks that would be an improvement for the majority of people and cases is an idiot who are so shortsighted that they can't see past their own nose.

[Leodric]

That's brilliant, so you're saying that it'd be an improvement to not be able to trade loot that is randomly dealt out to people thus leading to people getting drops that they don't want or need but their teammates do.

I say: "Hey look guys, I just got this ring with a shit ton of versatility on it which sucks because vers is terrible for me"
Tank says: "Well versatility is actually pretty good for me, mind giving it to me"
Blizzard says: "No, you can't be allowed to give loot to people! Go disenchant that piece while your tank cries in a corner over what could have been!"

Yeah, it's hyperbolic, but anyone who thinks that would be an improvement for the majority of people and cases is an idiot who are so shortsighted that they can't see past their own nose.

Besides the crying part (lol) it's actually a quite good example of what will happen many many times if Blizz forces it.

[Grimnakh]

Besides the crying part (lol) it's actually a quite good example of what will happen many many times if Blizz forces it.

If theres no expectation that the loot can be traded then most people will adjust thier expectations and not worry what other people are getting. Loot is relative. I was never mad at a guild mate because they couldnt trade a legendary. (regardless of issues with legendaries it illustrates the point).

[Marxman]

The only problem with Master Loot are awful guilds abusing the system. The system itself is fine. If you have an issue with your loot council, take it up with them or find a new guild. Don't take options away from players just because little Timmy got his feewings hurt by the mean old corrupt loot council.

[Vynny]

If theres no expectation that the loot can be traded then most people will adjust thier expectations and not worry what other people are getting. Loot is relative. I was never mad at a guild mate because they couldnt trade a legendary. (regardless of issues with legendaries it illustrates the point).

Like hell they will. People will get pissed at blizzard every time it happens. They won't get mad at their teammates, but they sure as hell won't say "oh well, that's just how the system works". It'll be the same as legendaries were, people will rightfully bitch and moan for the majority of the xpac until eventually blizzard randomly relents after subjecting the players to a poorly thought out system for most of the xpac.

[lummiuster]

And I guess I just disagree with that general premise. I do not think guilds should be made weaker. I think building a sustained community in a game that is built around the idea of playing with others should be rewarded.



I guess I just don't feel like getting gear I won't use is a "reward". As for the alt gearing, if your guild officers are doing that and you don't like it, find a new guild. I know in my guild, when we run master loot (we switch to personal after most people have the gear they need/want), we have a 2 week waiting period before your alt can get gear and that applies equally to officers and general membership. The only way to get gear during that two weeks is if no one on their main wants it. Even transmog for a main takes priority over upgrades for alts.



And I've said a couple times, I'm only opposed to the current version of Personal Loot being the only option. If they make some tweaks to personal loot (even if those tweaks only applied to groups that would currently be master loot eligible), I could be fine with a personal loot only world. With the way trinkets and jewelry currently work, ilvl is basically meaningless on them, so they should have more lenient trade rules. If they are going to stick with ilvl on all gear being the defining trade parameter, they genuinely need to make sure primary stat is the most important for all classes.

You are rewarded by raiding with your guild. It is coordination which makes all boss easier to down.

You will more likely use all gear that provides item level upgrade as they said they want il to be more important and secondary stats to be less dominant. It means you'll be free to give your lower il gear to others. It also mean that it can kill the boring "1 meta build only" as now you will pick optimal talent according to your gear rather than pick your BIS gear that optimizes the meta build of your spec.

Very welcoming change. You'll love it you'll see. It will dramatically reduce the scenarios where someone just hit max level and 2weeks later he outgears you.

[PraisCthulhu]

You are rewarded by raiding with your guild. It is coordination which makes all boss easier to down.

You will more likely use all gear that provides item level upgrade as they said they want il to be more important and secondary stats to be less dominant. It means you'll be free to give your lower il gear to others. It also mean that it can kill the boring "1 meta build only" as now you will pick optimal talent according to your gear rather than pick your BIS gear that optimizes the meta build of your spec.

I guess the whole Azerite gear talents being locked means we will need a lot more gear than we do in Legion. I don't think it is a *good* change still, but it does mean we'll need more gear. Also, unless they put main stat back on jewelry and on all trinkets, there will always be at least 4 slots where ilvl means less than stats and effects.

Very welcoming change. You'll love it you'll see. It will dramatically reduce the scenarios where someone just hit max level and 2weeks later he outgears you.

Taking longer to gear alts is very much a change I will not like. I've played with both personal loot and master loot. I like both for different scenarios. Less choice is not a change I will love.