"Trials deserve loot too"

[Lightwysh]

How in the hell is "trial" elitist? Like...what? A "trial" is by definition a new member that is trying to become a part of your team. There is nothing inherently elitist about that...at all....

Regarding the bolded, there are different levels of participation. There is a huge difference between someone who died on the pull by standing in bad and someone who is pushing their performance as high as they can to help the boss go down smoothly. Previously there was a way for raids, if they so chose, to reward the players who were contributing more while still allowing people who are new/still learning to get loot via bonus rolls. The best part? This was optional. Oh, by the way, this person who contributed more could even be a trial themselves.

Now? This optional method of distributing loot no longer exists. Why is it a good thing for the game to remove things? Ultimately, the point of a raid group is to kill bosses so I'll still push my performance and do the best I can. But now one of the incentives for me to push my performance, farm mats for feasts/cauldrons, help others out, and do what I can for the guild is gone. WHY?

This is just bullshit from so many different perspectives. Guild loyalty aside, being able to distribute loot where you need it was an extremely valuable tool for the entire guild. Dying to this boss over and over because the tank isn't getting lucky with gear and is getting massacred? Master looting helped that. Now, during progression, guilds are at the full mercy of the RNG Gods. We can't even trade gear during early progression because of ilevel restrictions.

I don't understand any of the defenses for this change. I might as well go into a fucking casino and pull those slot machines over and over. That's what the game is becoming.

So you're gonna stop doing your normal routine because you're not going to be funneled loot? That someone may get loot even though it's out of everyone's hands now?

Sounds like you raid for the wrong reasons.

[RobertoCarlos]

Let's not be silly. Loot belongs to the player now, not the guild.

Thats a great way to stay stuck on the same boss for 3months.

Gear helps your raid progress....in the raid.

Making it a lottery is just annoying and lazy

[Marrilaife]

The trails are there because you need the spots filled to complete the encounter.... otherwise you wouldn't bring them at all.

So yes - if they are there, helping you down a boss or finish a run, they deserve just as much of a chance at that loot.

How do you suggest to "try out" a trial without bringing him into any challenging content, even if you could complete it without him? Let's say the guild has enough of their own people but comes to a conclusion "hmm we could use another mage" and lets some applicant in. How do you try him? Only letting him in on easy bosses everyone already has all loot they need from? That's not much of a challenge and not a honest test.

Reminds me of a trial we failed because he didn't go into the pod when assigned, didn't go to paraxis when assigned, didn't go to the portals on hasabel when told so, etc. and he said it's unfair to fail him because "the bosses died anyway and we didn't wipe". But what good is a player who cannot follow instructions and tactics? By now we can 19 man these bosses (and we did, one week someone bought a boost for the early bosses) but how else do we test new people whether they know the strats and can listen to the raid leader?

[Tiwack]

but not the raid.

And, in some cases, not even the player.

Wonderful system.

Yes, players make up the raid. Wild fantasy and speculation atm - why the worry? The bias you have against PL makes you pretty irrational

[-aiko-]

So you're gonna stop doing your normal routine because you're not going to be funneled loot? That someone may get loot even though it's out of everyone's hands now?

Sounds like you raid for the wrong reasons.

Congratulations not reading a single thing I said. *slow clap*

If you aren't interested in actually reading or debating, why are you here?

[Ponji]

No it won't. It'll just make the top guilds run even more split runs of single classes except for healers/tanks unless that class can heal/tank. If you think there's few enough NA guilds in the top 10 or whatever, be prepared to see none in BFA.

Yeah, because all those split runs are going to be SOOOOO rewarding with the RNG personal loot system. Glad you can do math, though I suspect you'll need more than a napkin to figure it out completely.

Moreover, who cares what region's guilds are at the top? It's not like 'competitive raiding' is an esport or anything. Raiding will never be an esport, so why treat it like it needs to be?

[NatePsy]

No people aren't fucking trustworthy. Raider turnover is high and that is why players need as much control over loot as possible. Why the hell should someone come in, gear themselves, then quit and join another guild that is one boss kill ahead of the one you're in and probably the one you're dedicated to and have been in for months/years?

Bolded part for truth. We just had two new players join raid night that were super keen and eager to come again the next day, only to then show their true cards the next day and act all "I'll come but my partner doesn't want to, also I haven't got much time to raid because I agreed to do M+ later" <------ THAT sort of attitude shift confuses the fuck out of me because it goes from eager to raid with us, to then suddenly "NOPE PRIORITIES NOW" It's not as if our raid was bad either.

So with the new system, what the fuck is the answer to that if they had been given a fuck tonne of gear from personal loot on that one night they turned up to trial for us? "Oh that sucks, maybe you'll get better people next time" No, not good enough. The WoW community these days is selfish and lacking in care for others and now we're expected to be at the mercy of trials and expect them to be trustworthy? No fuck no, sorry the WoW community is not that selfless to be using a system like personal loot only.

[Nnyco]

Fun fact: Not even on loot council. I get handed loot because I'm not on the floor like the majority of players. I show up on time, do my research on fights, and don't constantly die to dumb shit. If someone gets handed something over me, I know it's for the good of the guild and its a bigger upgrade for them overall.

I got exposed of what? Being pissed that trials are going to come in, get carried, take loot, and probably bail? Oh no officer, better arrest me for getting tired of being fucked over by shitty players and RNG as usual.

sounds more like your guild is shit if you only recruit trials that get carried or just leave after (probably your) bullshit

[Aggrophobic]

Being a trial doesn't necessarily mean you're being carried.

Of course they are. It's not like they could have done it on their own. In any case, it should be up to the players, not Blizzard. Taking away choice is never good.

[C J]

@OP You talk about LFR mentality being toxic, imo your mentality is just as toxic =/

[Mister Cheese]

Figures from experiences with my guild and reading peoples thoughts on personal loot. It's the loot whores that are outcried and are whining the most lol. My philosophy with raiding was always focus more on killing the boss and turning it into a farm boss, there is always next week it will drop. But coming from a long time player and raiding through every raid this game has ever had except for level 60 naxx. Personal loot is killing the game? Feels more like people wanting to be full mythic geared out in 1 week of raiding are more so the problem. Might as well just not play the game and wait until a guild full clears a mythic raid and buy a loot carry and then unsub.

>Wanting to min/max who gets what gear = being a loot whore
>Not wanting people to dip into your raid as a trial for one week, get gear and then quit immediately to join another guild and repeat the process repeatedly = being a loot whore

You're projecting. Of course raiding is about killing bosses. But it's also about keeping people together. I've never witnessed any of these fucking horror stories where guilds would intentionally steal loot from new people in the guild and disenchant it in front of them. It's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Loot systems are a choice. If you don't like a guild's loot system join another guild that you prefer their loot system.

Every guild I have seen with an unorganized loot system that didn't have some form of loot council or DKP had the highest turnover rates ever. People came and left constantly. This is going to exacerbate the problem.

[Jakerel]

My own guild resigns it self to if a newcomer gets loot while under personal setting, then power to them. What we do do on the other hand, is if an item someone doesn't want IS up for distribution, they aren't eligible a that time. But it is under the stipulation that they agree to that before hand, if they don't like it they don't have to raid with us, simple as that.

But otherwise, a non issue. Personal loot rules can be dealt with.

And as long as they never add class specific items to raids again (unless they are rewarded to everyone, you just have one specific for your class from somewhere) then Personal Loot will remain an restriction, albeit a small one, that can be circumvented when appropriate in various means.

[anaxie]

There's a reason that organized raiding is a minority and solo players are the majority. People aren't trustworthy.

Theres also a reason only the minority clear mythic.

[Nefarious Tea]

Yeah, because all those split runs are going to be SOOOOO rewarding with the RNG personal loot system. Glad you can do math, though I suspect you'll need more than a napkin to figure it out completely.

Moreover, who cares what region's guilds are at the top? It's not like 'competitive raiding' is an esport or anything. Raiding will never be an esport, so why treat it like it needs to be?

Because what they'll do is run several raids of say, all mages, and then use the best-geared one for the progression push. And who cares about who's regional first? You wouldn't have commented if you didn't.

[Tiwack]

Its not sudden.

If you read the forums there was always the mentality that raiding should be like lfr, and this is a closer step to it, so they are in favor.

The next thing they demand will be that people shouldnt be allowed to be kicked from a raid group while id locked, i gurantee you.

- - - Updated - - -



Seems i hit Bullseye

First time I hear of it - wild speculation and dystopian thinking again.

Cute of you to think you've hit anything at all. Want to join the rest of us in reality, or is shitting on the board working out well for you?

[Mister Cheese]

Gotta love all the LFR heroes on MMO-champ who are suddenly outraged at a system that has been serving guilds well since basically the beginning of raiding.

Most of the posts I see on official WoW forums that are in favor of the removal of master loot.. I look at their progression. Speaks fucking volumes. They love shitting all over things that don't even affect them.

[Castration]

Trials deserve loot just as much as the people who helped a guild progress through the raid is laughable

Maybe you're the one who doesn't deserve loot... ever think of that?

[Cosmic Janitor]

I've never witnessed any of these fucking horror stories where guilds would intentionally steal loot from new people in the guild and disenchant it in front of them. It's the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

Why would anyone actually do that in the first place. If the guy is so bad that you already know he won't make it, you will just throw him out. If there is a chance that you take the player you will want them to be able to perform as good as possible as soon as possible, not wait for another item to drop. Some people here either raid with retards or, more likely, not at all.

[Mister Cheese]

Bolded part for truth. We just had two new players join raid night that were super keen and eager to come again the next day, only to then show their true cards the next day and act all "I'll come but my partner doesn't want to, also I haven't got much time to raid because I agreed to do M+ later" <------ THAT sort of attitude shift confuses the fuck out of me because it goes from eager to raid with us, to then suddenly "NOPE PRIORITIES NOW" It's not as if our raid was bad either.

So with the new system, what the fuck is the answer to that if they had been given a fuck tonne of gear from personal loot on that one night they turned up to trial for us? "Oh that sucks, maybe you'll get better people next time" No, not good enough. The WoW community these days is selfish and lacking in care for others and now we're expected to be at the mercy of trials and expect them to be trustworthy? No fuck no, sorry the WoW community is not that selfless to be using a system like personal loot only.

It really confuses me because I know Ion Hazzikostas has the raiding community screaming at him to reverse this change but he doesn't seem to care.

[Tiwack]

Bullseye again

so yo happy that you get gear now for being dead on the floor?

You think this is gonna change anything like that as if it doesn't already happen with ML councils and DKP systems?