Our Final Stand - Death Knights in BFA

[Raugnaut]

The same way as does transmog or having tree form on.

In WoD, it changed the rotation entirely. DW wanted to hit often, so more frost strike/howling blase oriented. 2H wanted to hit hard, so more obliterate spam.

[docterfreeze]

2h frost is just more fun. Obliterate actually obliterates when you have a 2h weapon.

[Stardrift]

Or, go fully read what I said and suggested.

Let me just highlight something from my post so it maybe goes through your fucking head, lol

A VE DK does not make sense, lol.
Not until there's a new generation of DKs trained by Bolvar's Scourge (A new starting zone for DKs)

That was my suggestion. Which went totally over your head. Essentially, I said we'd need a new starting zone first, rather than shoehorning in races that were never around for the lore-heavy end event at the end of the DK starting zone.

Skipping a hero class's starting zone is a bit redundant, no? Especially since they'll have all those abilities right off the bat without any sort of introduction to them? As well as removing the whole epic feel to, you know, a hero class?
Remove the DH intro and what are you? Just some blind bozo who mumbles about demons. No epic build up to what your character is.

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2h frost is just more fun. Obliterate actually obliterates when you have a 2h weapon.

Agreed. I hate using these dinky little letter openers.

[cparle87]

I... I actually Miss DW DK Tanking...

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Yes, basically. Void Elves did what the blood elves did. Embraced a different source and another part of them didn't agree. Though, void has always confused me due to holy and fel being meant to be volatile to the void energies.

Fel and holy might be one of the most well known conflicts in WoW, Legion vs Naaru and such, but they are not actually opposing elements. Fel is opposed to arcane, which is part of why Sargeras was able to defeat the Pantheon; while Light is opposed to Void.

https://i.redd.it/ccze0t1q95701.png

[Netherius]

In WoD, it changed the rotation entirely. DW wanted to hit often, so more frost strike/howling blase oriented. 2H wanted to hit hard, so more obliterate spam.

I liked the WoD version of Frost. You could 2h if you wanted, but also DW 1h with a slightly higher skill cap= do more damage. If anything they should at least bring back that iteration

[Deleted]

i hated that artifacts restricted weapon classes but also the specs tied to a certain weapon, i still remember using one handed dualW with a fury warrior, or a two handed frost as dps or the old two handed shaman. Those were the days were you chose your weapon for your spec, not your spec choses your weapon for you.

For the life of me I cannot understand why they didn't reintroduce the older options back into the game with BfA. They could easily reintroduce the option for Single Minded Fury as a tier 1 talent by replacing Fresh Meat (a talent literally nobody takes...ever...). I assume Frost DK also has a similar useless talent spot that is never used allowing for the option to have 2 handed Frost spec added back in.

[Traveler Voltin]

Get over it.
Its dead

[Lochton]

Fel and holy might be one of the most well known conflicts in WoW, Legion vs Naaru and such, but they are not actually opposing elements. Fel is opposed to arcane, which is part of why Sargeras was able to defeat the Pantheon; while Light is opposed to Void.

https://i.redd.it/ccze0t1q95701.png

I know they are opposed to each but they also seem to react to each other.

[cparle87]

I know they are opposed to each but they also seem to react to each other.

A lot of the elements react with one another violently. Most of them actually. Just pointing out that the light-wielding Sunwell-worshipping blood elves rejecting people dabbling with void makes sense.

[Lochton]

A lot of the elements react with one another violently. Most of them actually. Just pointing out that the light-wielding Sunwell-worshipping blood elves rejecting people dabbling with void makes sense.

Oh, not disagreeing with that.

[deviantcultist]

Kinda annoyed that they decided to change Unholy into a more purple and shadowy spec out of the blue. Not to mention the "Lich King had a vision" retcon from the latest Chronicle.

When WotLK came out, I started a DK back then and switched to Spriest due to the fact that DK had no proper Shadow identity. Unholy was basically a slimy Putricide apprentice, heavily flavored with plagues and greeny/gooey animations.My journey on my Spriest was a rather rocky one and the fact that DK suddenly gets fixed, makes me feel like I could have instead stayed with DK all along.

It is one of those changes that you feel like they are too late to be appreciated, not to mention my subjective feeling of "wasting" my immersion on Spriest.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Kinda annoyed that they decided to change Unholy into a more purple and shadowy spec out of the blue. Not to mention the "Lich King had a vision" retcon from the latest Chronicle.

When did that happen? Because of that one singular talent?

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Let me just highlight something from my post so it maybe goes through your fucking head, lol

A VE DK does not make sense, lol.
Not until there's a new generation of DKs trained by Bolvar's Scourge (A new starting zone for DKs)

That was my suggestion. Which went totally over your head. Essentially, I said we'd need a new starting zone first, rather than shoehorning in races that were never around for the lore-heavy end event at the end of the DK starting zone.

Skipping a hero class's starting zone is a bit redundant, no? Especially since they'll have all those abilities right off the bat without any sort of introduction to them? As well as removing the whole epic feel to, you know, a hero class?
Remove the DH intro and what are you? Just some blind bozo who mumbles about demons. No epic build up to what your character is.

Someone farts on an elf with magic and it changes them. You could just be a DK that happened to stick with the little circle of guys that wanted to mess with the void and got caught up in it. Just drop the velf player into the normal 20 starter zone and give them a mandatory quest that skips them back to the DK intro and raises the level, call it "you need to remeber your past" or some shit like that. NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, allied races do after they reach OG/SW makes any narrative sense. All the questing you do is in the past, heck you even go back and forth in it once you reach BC/Wotlk. Blizzard glosses over that as well, the only reason is that blizzard really likes to be lazy. All that gets even worse for the races that make quite a bit of sense, like dark iron and zalandari, heck even cake'tirans.

Just disable the heritage armor grind for DK and be done with it. Most people pay for a race change anyway.

[MalfLFT]

Making UH dual wield and Frost 2 hand would be sort off fine. That being said, I really disagree with the opinion that new races should be able to be DK's just for the sake of it. Except if they want to spend time changing the starting area.

[Zeraiya]

No one is asking for every race to be able to roll every class but there are certainly good cases to be made for some of the Allied Races especially Void Elves, Dark Iron Dwarfs, and Zandalari Trolls. Truth be told there is absolutely nothing from a LORE perspective that is stopping any of these new races from being raised as Death Knights or even Pandaren.

I don't have anything to say about this post (since I don't play a DK), except for this part. I literally cannot see any lore based reason as to how a void elf can exist as a DK. The Zandalari are pushing it, but I can see a feasible reason that Scourge could have infiltrated Zandalar too. The Dark Iron, sure. But Void Elves... they are literally a race that was JUST created. As in, they have existed for about... one month.

I can understand the argument of raising someone as a Death Knight, like the Pandaren because they have been public for years and years. There is time for them to have died or been corrupted by Scourge. But Void Elves? There are probably, like, 100 Void Elves lorewise (just a guess, no idea... but there aren't a lot of Blood Elves, and even fewer go Void side) so I don't even see how they have even seen the Scourge outside of player questing. Lorewise it makes absolutely no logical sense for a Void Elf to somehow get corrupted.

But, yes, you can make an argument that the player is the 'first' of the DKs. But to do that it would require Blizzard to create a whole new leveling zone and story to explain how the Void Elves came to be DKs. Unlike Zandalari and Dark Iron, who existed for centuries beforehand and could logically be included in the previous leveling/story content... the Void Elves can't (and actually, neither the Pandaren, arguably). So you would have to create completely new content to explain it.

And Blizzard is not going to create completely new content for one race/class combination. It sucks, but it just won't happen.

[Reydan]

Making UH dual wield and Frost 2 hand would be sort off fine. That being said, I really disagree with the opinion that new races should be able to be DK's just for the sake of it. Except if they want to spend time changing the starting area.

Uhm no it isn't... Unholy is more iconic compared to frost, it makes no sense at all for UH to be dual wield. Neither does it for frost however, Death Knight dual wielding doesn't suit at all imo.

[MalfLFT]

Uhm no it isn't... Unholy is more iconic compared to frost, it makes no sense at all for UH to be dual wield. Neither does it for frost however, Death Knight dual wielding doesn't suit at all imo.

Dual Wield might not be iconic to the DK but having 1 out of 3 speccs using 2 1handers are fine, imo.

[Eats Compost]

Uhm no it isn't... Unholy is more iconic compared to frost, it makes no sense at all for UH to be dual wield. Neither does it for frost however, Death Knight dual wielding doesn't suit at all imo.

DW makes some sense for UH because it's about disease. Attacking a bunch with two fast weapons suddenly makes sense if your whole shtick is giving them diseases from cut and stab wounds. Festering Strike is a great example of this; smashing someone with a massive two-hander to produce little diseased wounds is the dumbest thing ever. Similarly, Obliterate is also very silly with DW. Swap them and both suddenly make way more sense.

[Reydan]

DW makes some sense for UH because it's about disease. Attacking a bunch with two fast weapons suddenly makes sense if your whole shtick is giving them diseases from cut and stab wounds. Festering Strike is a great example of this; smashing someone with a massive two-hander to produce little diseased wounds is the dumbest thing ever. Similarly, Obliterate is also very silly with DW. Swap them and both suddenly make way more sense.

Obliterate is indeed silly with dual wielding, like I said frost shouldn't be about dual wielding and neither does unholy. So I disagree completely with your point about unholy to be the dual wielding spec, it just doesn't fit thematically.

[scoobysnacks]

Don't you remember how awful 2H Frost was as a spec? Nobody played it, all the way through Wrath, because it was nowhere near on par with Unholy. The only reason we played Frost at all was in 3.3 when some clever bastards worked out how to spec our talents and stack haste in order to make DW Frost viable.

Iconic? No. 2H Frost has never been viable, not since the birth of the DK. That's why I was never selected to earn Shadowmourne in Wrath.

Personally I think they should focus on making DW Frost fun to play again.

Source: Playing Frost for 9 years.

As for allied races being DK's, I can't see it ever happening. Not after the whining Blizzard received in Cataclysm when they allowed Worgen and Goblins to become Death Knights. They'd need to dump development time into making it work within the lore. I'd love to see the DK starting experience updated as much as anybody else but it seems to me they there are more important things for them to focus their time on. Maybe when/if Northrend gets a revamp?

To be fair, the only reason that Unholy was so powerful in WotLK was because of the Necrotic Plague talent. Combined with the talent that caused your diseases to inflict AoE damage, you outdamaged the other two specs by a massive margin.

Despite that, I enjoyed two handed Frost up until the end of MoP, which for me is when it really felt like it was falling behind duel wielding.

I would like the playstyle to come back as it still fits the feel of the spec, but I'm not hopeful.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Obliterate is indeed silly with dual wielding, like I said frost shouldn't be about dual wielding and neither does unholy. So I disagree completely with your point about unholy to be the dual wielding spec, it just doesn't fit thematically.

No, it really does fit. Calm down though, no one is going to take 2h away from you, Blizzard fucked this one up for the ages and it won't change any time soon. But if we go back and look at the specs, nothing about unholy screams using powerfull 2h weapons. Heck even arthas technically used a bastard sword and not an actual 2h sword. The spec is fast paced, most of the damage comes from minions, dots or magic attacks. Even the artifact weapon is more a magic slab of metal than an actual sword. The spec is closer to a diablo3 necromancer than arthas ever was. Even back in Wotlk DW unholy was a popular thing, because the dw talents were easy to grab and DW has the problem that it almost always overshadows 2h gameplay (warrior, shaman w/o windfury, dk) because of the terrible systems blizzard has in place.