Rogue 8.0 Discussion

[Toogoodman]

I always feel i have to reiterate how much of WoW is built upon RnG when people bring up rtb rng. It's worth stopping to think about.

The only reason rtb rng is any kind of a problem whatsoever is the variance in dps, specifically that represented by the comparison charts put out by simcraft where outlaw's variance is by far the largest vs all other specs. It's a problem. But removal of rtb drops it to almost no variance - and makes the spec one of the most dreary boring iterations of any spec since the game released, comparable to combat daggers in classic.

They absolutely have the ability to balance rtb buffs, but that would require changing the effects significantly. It's definitely doable. It's a well built ability, with high aspirations, that has fell flat because its buffs are not balanced well enough to bring out consistent dps as compared to the other 2 specs. removing it in favor of snd puts progress straight back to wotlk. It won't happen.

Another huge fault with it is that it uses our CP, and when "balancing" around the buffs is so bad that you have to sit there and just roll roll roll praying you get the proper buffs is awful. Bring back MoP or WoD combat, not the most in depth spec but its at least bearable. Sub and Assass have been amazing this xpac, absolutely fantastic and ive enjoyed both in PvP and PvE, but man, outlaw is just trash, I wouldnt call that progress.

[omeomorfismo]

Another huge fault with it is that it uses our CP, and when "balancing" around the buffs is so bad that you have to sit there and just roll roll roll praying you get the proper buffs is awful. Bring back MoP or WoD combat, not the most in depth spec but its at least bearable. Sub and Assass have been amazing this xpac, absolutely fantastic and ive enjoyed both in PvP and PvE, but man, outlaw is just trash, I wouldnt call that progress.

wasnt like nh the last time that rerolling was worth?

[elfporn]

wasnt like nh the last time that rerolling was worth?

yep. You are correct.

[Celfydd]

It seems that Pick Pocket is on the GCD for subtlety (it isn't for assassination). So whereas for assassination you can do something like

/cast [stealth] Pick Pocket
/cast Garrote

for subtlety you cannot do

/cast [stealth][stance:2] Pick Pocket
/cast Shadowstrike

because the Pick Pocket consumes the GCD, Shadowstrike will never be cast.

Am I correct here? This does seem like an unnecessary penalty for sub.

[Toogoodman]

wasnt like nh the last time that rerolling was worth?

Funny enough, nh was the last time I played that trash spec

[Deleted]

Funny enough, nh was the last time I played that trash spec

Since 7.2.5 ("Loaded dice" added) and more recently with 7.3.2 (new Antorus stuff), the spec is actually very fun again.
Yes, there is always RNG if you play the RtB build. But it's far less frustrating than before !

And if you don't wanna play with dices anymore and you miss the old Slice and Dice feeling, you can play with this build and the thing is : that SnD build is doing better than the other RtB build right now.

If they keep the RtB spell in the current state for BFA, it will be good.
But i understand it was very frustrating to play with earlier in Legion. ^^

[Deleted]

So i checked the pvp talents, not amazed at all. The only good thing i saw was smoke bomb for all three rogues spec.

[RobertoCarlos]

Is DFA a pvp talent now?

Lol, just lol. They are trying to make the game worse im convinced.

[Deleted]

Is DFA a pvp talent now?

Lol, just lol. They are trying to make the game worse im convinced.

It is yes, for assa and sub. A talent never used in serious pvp by the way ...

[RobertoCarlos]

It is yes, for assa and sub. A talent never used in serious pvp by the way ...

Its so you can blow up everyone noob enough to defend the AV bridge!!!!11!

who still does arena mannn/

Egh, I wish we had someone that actually cared about rogue working at blizzard

[Mafic]

DFA is an awesome way to cross the AV bridge as an Arcane Mage blinks several times lol.

[Varolyn]

Something interesting to note regarding pvp talents, smoke bomb is available to at least sub and sin now as a pvp talent (I assume outlaw too as well but I didn't check). So at least in pvp or warmode, assassination will have just about everything that rogues had prior to Legion except for gouge.

[Deleted]

Something interesting to note regarding pvp talents, smoke bomb is available to at least sub and sin now as a pvp talent (I assume outlaw too as well but I didn't check). So at least in pvp or warmode, assassination will have just about everything that rogues had prior to Legion except for gouge.

And ambush. But gouge is clearly missing... For me it was the best spell we had. With improved gouge (+1sec), it made restealth possible and completely changed the gameplay of rogues.

[RobertoCarlos]

And ambush. But gouge is clearly missing... For me it was the best spell we had. With improved gouge (+1sec), it made restealth possible and completely changed the gameplay of rogues.

Sorry gouge is a skill with a skill cap attached to it.

its too confusing for players breaking on damage when its untalented, it had to go.

[Naiattavain]

Is DFA a pvp talent now?

Lol, just lol. They are trying to make the game worse im convinced.

I think the same is happening to. i stopped playing altogether.

[Mafic]

Is DFA a pvp talent now?

Lol, just lol. They are trying to make the game worse im convinced.

Yup.

A lot of PVP talents can be used for questing in BFA if you turn on warmode. That is a new low Blizz is going to push PVE players to do world PVP so they can have classes and specs not be brain dead for questing as an example.

[Demeia]

Since 7.2.5 ("Loaded dice" added) and more recently with 7.3.2 (new Antorus stuff), the spec is actually very fun again.
Yes, there is always RNG if you play the RtB build. But it's far less frustrating than before !

And if you don't wanna play with dices anymore and you miss the old Slice and Dice feeling, you can play with this build and the thing is : that SnD build is doing better than the other RtB build right now.

If they keep the RtB spell in the current state for BFA, it will be good.
But i understand it was very frustrating to play with earlier in Legion. ^^

Leveling outlaw is fine in beta, feels as good as assassin to me. Haven't played with S&D, I just stuck with roll the bones--as usual I forget to change talents those rare times I'm in a rest area. I actually like the new blade fury, myself, those of us who used the original blade fury are probably less put off by the change. I am the worst at grappling hook, since I've always considered acrobatic strikes the eighth wonder of rogue talents (subtle but oh so cool).

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm, just took a look at the PvP talents and they are... um... Well, something people could get out of shape over. Dismantle, Death from Above, Shiv (!) removing enrage effects, tricks increasing damage of allies...

It is certainly odd they are giving PvP all the abilities of PvE and then an additional set. I suppose they did that to some extent in legion and I simply didn't notice it, however.

[RobertoCarlos]

Theres no way in hell Shiv should be Pvp only. Neither should DFA. Dismantle makes sense as a pvp talent.

But shiv nah mate, give that shit back.

[Release]

Am I the only rogue player in history that actually likes Rtb? Come on guys getting the six role at the start of a pull feels orgasmic. I do agree though that just making Rtb act like loaded dice would help smooth out the RNG.

[Eazy]

Am I the only rogue player in history that actually likes Rtb? Come on guys getting the six role at the start of a pull feels orgasmic. I do agree though that just making Rtb act like loaded dice would help smooth out the RNG.

Yeah, it's awesome if you're leveling/doing outdoor things etc. But not when you're competiting in PvE(raids/M+), it's just too RNG.

Theres no way in hell Shiv should be Pvp only. Neither should DFA. Dismantle makes sense as a pvp talent.

But shiv nah mate, give that shit back.

I think that Shiv is a PvP talent since Legion...