Trade Unions - Y/N?

[NihilSustinet]

in your opinion... i've had family members work under unions non of them liked them. To date I never have worked under or belonged to a union.. though I did joke that IT workers could use a union sometimes...

said family members probably had every day gripes with them like everything else, but in reality they probably got better pay, better hours, better benefits, and job security that they never would have had without it. we need to bring back unions if we want any hope of bringing down the ceo pay gap, or restoring the middle class.

[craigw]

Learn a trade and tell me which one's better. Unionized or not.

(Don't bother. I already know and am unionized.)

was a union carpenter for 10 years union taught me everything I need to know in the construction field, with that said my non union dad would put a union welder to shame. the ability to do work is all on you not who you work for.

[Shadowferal]

I bet if China allowed unions people there wouldn't be working themselves to death.

[Wyrt]

Because workers alone have basically no power against corporations. Unions give them more power to get higher pay, healthcare, better safety, etc.

Are unions perfect? No, but it's better than workers being powerless and exploited.

[cuafpr]

said family members probably had every day gripes with them like everything else, but in reality they probably got better pay, better hours, better benefits, and job security that they never would have had without it. we need to bring back unions if we want any hope of bringing down the ceo pay gap, or restoring the middle class.

They did not feel like they got their monies worth, and got tired of paying for Union reps that they felt didn't represent them. Most of the issues were when i was a kid and don't recall details, but i know even now said family members don't like them. So they apparently do not feel they got their monies worth which means somewhere the union failed to show its value. Rather true or not I can't say. But i stand by my thought that if i want to work a job i should be able to without being in a union, if there is one they should say we offer X Y Z for $$$ care to join? If not great if so great. That imo helps keep the Union in lines and working to not only improve conditions but always show their value. If suddently people could drop union membership and not lose jobs, the union is kept in check itself by the workers.

[Rasulis]

If you don't like the union and don't want to be part of it, then don't take a union job.

Trust me when I say there are a lot more non-union jobs than union's. Even in Comie Land California.

As an owner of a union shop company, trust me also when I say my guys get paid a lot better than any non-union workers in the same field. I do mean a LOT.

[Yuujin]

If your idea of a healthy work enviroment is that the shittiest worker and the best worker get paid the same amount
Promotions are based on seniority and not work ethics
A third party is negotiating for you and you have no control over this third party

then Unions are for you.

Yes I worked in a Union from 16 - 24 years old

Exactly. If I keep an employee employed for 20 years because they are doing a job why should I be obligated to increase his pay at regular intervals? And having worked in a union shop seeing all they ways to circumvent and pay employees that excel more than those that don't and the ease in how we can do it just proves we dont need unions at all. Third party negotiators that are qualified to negotiate on behalf of people who aren't? What do they think, they are lawyers or politicians? Dont need those according to super market workers I've spoken to.

[Rasulis]

Exactly. If I keep an employee employed for 20 years because they are doing a job why should I be obligated to increase his pay at regular intervals? And having worked in a union shop seeing all they ways to circumvent and pay employees that excel more than those that don't and the ease in how we can do it just proves we dont need unions at all. Third party negotiators that are qualified to negotiate on behalf of people who aren't? What do they think, they are lawyers or politicians? Dont need those according to super market workers I've spoken to.

Don't become a union shop? Nobody is forcing you.

[zealo]

I will never understand why unions are viewed so negatively in the US even by the common worker. They are some of the most useful and strongest tools workers can possibly have at their disposal if a company tries to pull worker hostile practises, if the unions themselves are actually strongly entrenched.

One example that will forever stand out in my mind of why, is when Toysrus first expanded into Sweden in the 90s, and refused to sign collective union agreements with workers, bypass worker hiring laws, shorter break times, the ability to themselves set minimum level for wages, and other bullshit.

Workers that were union members were called to strike, but what also happened was that other unions in fields like Transport, media printing, and banking declared support strikes, and refused to transport goods for the company, print adds, and to process transactions. They also collectively went out and asked millions of their members to avoid the store. Even a major chain franchise forcefully ended up having to buckle down and adapt their business to the market they were expanding into.

[Yuujin]

Workers that were union members were called to strike, but what also happened was that other unions in fields like Transport, media printing, and banking declared support strikes, and refused to transport goods for the company, print adds, and to process transactions. They also collectively went out and asked millions of their members to avoid the store. Even a major chain franchise forcefully ended up having to buckle down and adapt their business to the market they were expanding into.

This. So many union workers dont realize the power they hold. If there were more they might figure it out. Don't need that. Power to the job creaters, no the people who work.

[NihilSustinet]

They did not feel like they got their monies worth, and got tired of paying for Union reps that they felt didn't represent them. Most of the issues were when i was a kid and don't recall details, but i know even now said family members don't like them. So they apparently do not feel they got their monies worth which means somewhere the union failed to show its value. Rather true or not I can't say. But i stand by my thought that if i want to work a job i should be able to without being in a union, if there is one they should say we offer X Y Z for $$$ care to join? If not great if so great. That imo helps keep the Union in lines and working to not only improve conditions but always show their value. If suddently people could drop union membership and not lose jobs, the union is kept in check itself by the workers.

like i said, people who dislike them often dont realize how much of a benefit they got from them until they went away. america as a whole is feeling that pain right now.

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I bet if China allowed unions people there wouldn't be working themselves to death.

now this is crazy talk. we need to exploit china so we can have free iphones

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I will never understand why unions are viewed so negatively in the US even by the common worker. They are some of the most useful and strongest tools workers can possibly have at their disposal if a company tries to pull worker hostile practises, if the unions themselves are actually strongly entrenched.

One example that will forever stand out in my mind of why, is when Toysrus first expanded into Sweden in the 90s, and refused to sign collective union agreements with workers, bypass worker hiring laws, shorter break times, the ability to themselves set minimum level for wages, and other bullshit.

Workers that were union members were called to strike, but what also happened was that other unions in fields like Transport, media printing, and banking declared support strikes, and refused to transport goods for the company, print adds, and to process transactions. They also collectively went out and asked millions of their members to avoid the store. Even a major chain franchise forcefully ended up having to buckle down and adapt their business to the market they were expanding into.

workers feel antipathy toward them due to anti-union propaganda, and the every day gripes and imperfections with any system. there was also a lot of social propaganda when they were big. go watch movies from the 70s and 80s, there was a LOT of casual references to unions being corrupt, useless, thieving, etc. getting rid of them was a huge coordinated effort between right wing politicians and big business.

[Linkedblade]

That time and place being now.

Unions being a corrupt relic is nothing more than conservative propaganda specifically designed to undermine workers and promote the interest of business owners.

You can say that, but have you ever worked in a union? Or worked in field dominated by unions and not been in one? It's a clusterfuck.

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Because workers alone have basically no power against corporations. Unions give them more power to get higher pay, healthcare, better safety, etc.

Are unions perfect? No, but it's better than workers being powerless and exploited.

And if your union doesn't help you, but continues to take exorbitant dues? That is powerless and exploited.

[Shadowferal]

When the company I had worked for tried the most ridiculous and stupid policies that made even "Business Week" magazine go "wtf?" My union tried hard to get the company to change those policies. Did we have an ulterior motive? Yes. We wanted to save the company from sinking and save our jobs. But they didn't reverse anything and that company sank. I had never seen incompetence at such a flagrant level as I had then.

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And if your union doesn't help you, but continues to take exorbitant dues? That is powerless and exploited.

And the company whose only concern is the bottom line? Of what use will they be to you?

[Linkedblade]

When the company I had worked for tried the most ridiculous and stupid policies that made even "Business Week" magazine go "wtf?" My union tried hard to get the company to change those policies. Did we have an ulterior motive? Yes. We wanted to save the company from sinking and save our jobs. But they didn't reverse anything and that company sank. I had never seen incompetence at such a flagrant level as I had then.

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And the company whose only concern is the bottom line? Of what use will they be to you?

And the union whose only concern is the bottom line?

[Deleted]

Unions are bad, mkay.

[Shadowferal]

And the union whose only concern is the bottom line?

At least that bottom line relies on you to have that job.
The other would happily pay a slave wage without benefits if they could.

[Voidwielder]

So I did a little bit more reading specifically about Tesla and it appears that UAW is actively, deliberately, undermining Tesla.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...aling-on-tesla

[Templar 331]

was a union carpenter for 10 years union taught me everything I need to know in the construction field, with that said my non union dad would put a union welder to shame. the ability to do work is all on you not who you work for.

That is true. As a union welder myself, I've seen several people in our union who's welds look like they grabbed some dog shit and threw it onto some metal. How they pasted the weld test is a mystery. (not really seeing as they know a guy in management...)

But all in all, working in a union is far better than not.

[NED funded]

Probably fine, there are a lot of imbalances in the US between employer/employee relations that could certainly do some improvement. My only issue is with public unions, those are nothing but a blight in the country and the quicker we get rid of them the better.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

I don't understand this trade union fetish that some left-to-centre people have.
Trade unions are lead by self-serving, self-interested people who fight on behalf of one company against another.



- https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-...-unionization/

Trade unions are just corporations that sell their members’ labor. There’s nothing wrong with them in principle so long as they exist in the private sector and are limited by the need to keep the companies they’re bargaining with in the black.