Why are you afraid of RNG?

[zetitup]

I see alot of posts with ppl saying it's too much RNG, RNG this, RNG that.
RNG is a huge factor of RPGs and i have no problem with it at all, so im just wondering, why are you afraid of RNG?

I mean, take Diablo 2 for example, people are still hunting that perfect rolled item, it adds replayability etc.

Imagine if you run into an instance/raid and get fully geared instantly for example, why would you want to go back there again if you didnt know you could get an upgrade, even if it's a very small chance? Are you just bored of gaming? Bored of the game? Why?

[valky94]

the thing is that diablo is a solo game, wow is an MMO, having a bad rolled item hurts your dps if you are in a high end top tier guild that is wiping on 0.2% (yes those things happen, not as often as before as there is M+ now)

and another reason could be that people feel scamed when someone who raids only LFR gets a 970 item and you raid mythic, or someone gets a 940 arcanocrystal from shards

[Mixxy]

I see alot of posts with ppl saying it's too much RNG, RNG this, RNG that.
RNG is a huge factor of RPGs and i have no problem with it at all, so im just wondering, why are you afraid of RNG?

I mean, take Diablo 2 for example, people are still hunting that perfect rolled item, it adds replayability etc.

Imagine if you run into an instance/raid and get fully geared instantly for example, why would you want to go back there again if you didnt know you could get an upgrade, even if it's a very small chance? Are you just bored of gaming? Bored of the game? Why?

As with everything in life, you CAN have too much of a good thing.

A bit of RNG is good. Too much is bad. Between massive Titanforge potential, M+ Caches, Legendary drops, Netherlight Crucible, Emissaries, and Orderhall missions, and so on... Legion dipped a bit too far into RNG.



To elaborate a bit further: Video games should always reward performance first, luck second. Always. To do otherwise makes your game more of a gamble than a test of ability.
But WoW has started to favour luck over performance - something that's especially evident with Relic implementation.

[Accendor]

the thing is that diablo is a solo game, wow is an MMO, having a bad rolled item hurts your dps if you are in a high end top tier guild that is wiping on 0.2% (yes those things happen, not as often as before as there is M+ now)

Except that is the wrong way to look at it. It does not hurt your dps, it benefits the dps of another team member, increasing your own chance accordingly.

Only problem I have with RNG is when it comes to classes that are designed with layours upon layers of RNG on top of each other, so that the end result in DPS in a fight varies greatly, even all fights were executed on nearly the same level by the player.
Another problem obv is a boss like Coven where during progress there are combinations of abilities that you simply can not manage.

[Mixxy]

Except that is the wrong way to look at it. It does not hurt your dps, it benefits the dps of another team member, increasing your own chance accordingly.

The post you quoted isn't about someone else getting a good item; it's about you getting a BAD one.

A team member getting a good item is good. But everyone getting garbage items is not.


And with Titanforging being as bonkers strong as it is now, it leads to one of two problems: Either content is balanced around decent procs, meaning someone who is unlucky just won't be able to handle it... or it's balanced around bad procs, which means the very lucky people will trivialise it.

[Oneru]

Because I still haven't got Ashes of Alar though trying since TBC, while my brother got it on his first venture into Tempest Keep. That hurts. I know this doesn't impact the game or my performance or anything, but still.

But as stated, some RNG is good to keep things interesting, but it shouldn't be too much. There should be some predictability as well, or a way to circumvent the RNG through a longer track (e.g. be able to get a good trinket early in a raid, but if it never drops, be able to buy a similar one once you get exalted with a faction or so).

[Cosmic Janitor]

RNG is a nice tool if it adds some noise to the gameplay and breaks strict formulaic gameplay, if RNG is the be all and end all of your system it feels just terrible and unrewarding, like playing a slotmachine. Even in a pen and paper RPG, at least if it is decent, you won't decide the outcome of a battle every single time with one dice roll in a vaccum, that is just bad design. You decide it by multiple rolls that each factor in your stats, you also don't hand people the game defining weapon "to slay all evil" after they roll a 6 on their character sheet either. A system like that either means you feel less powerfull and you had no control over it while being being frustrated or you feel powerfull and you have nothing more to look forward to.

[Pull My Finger]

My theory is that it's because players have built unhealthily competitive and petty communities to exist within. The real reason for getting worked up over RNG is the fear of falling behind performance-wise. For example, people start feeling that they have the "right" to get "their" legendary, because the other guy got it to and now he's "winning" on the meters only because he has it. And now people are afraid for their jobs, uh I mean their raiding spots of course. It's just community immaturity.

[Pickynerd]

Gamer's love RNG, that is why games with an RNG elements are so popular; that being said, too much RNG leads to constant disappointment, the negatives outweighing the positives.

[valax]

I see alot of posts with ppl saying it's too much RNG, RNG this, RNG that.
RNG is a huge factor of RPGs and i have no problem with it at all, so im just wondering, why are you afraid of RNG?

I mean, take Diablo 2 for example, people are still hunting that perfect rolled item, it adds replayability etc.

Imagine if you run into an instance/raid and get fully geared instantly for example, why would you want to go back there again if you didnt know you could get an upgrade, even if it's a very small chance? Are you just bored of gaming? Bored of the game? Why?

sense of completion , there is a time when you must get to a point and say IM DONE . Titanforging RNG stripped you of that since everything can proc at any boss

[Deleted]

Not afraid, but disgusted by the insane amounts of multiple RNG layers.

Classic WoW: exactly 2 layers of RNG - item drops (yes/no) & you win the roll / get the item by loot council or DKP (yes/no)
Current WoW: item drops for you yes/no - item warforges yes/no AND/OR item titanforges yes/no AND/OR item gets a socket yes/no AND/OR item gets a tertiary stat yes/no ; in addition, the item could drop for a different person in your group / raid with all RNG layers, and could be traded, if it's not an upgrade anymore to the person who receives it.

Why do we need so many layers of RNG for one item?

And this is not all. We also have RNG with...
Profession items or quest rewards with random stats; quest rewards who also can WF or TF or get a socket etc.
Random legendary drop chances
And even reputation rewards in paragon chests

Add on top, that you often get random upgrades not for the items you want to upgrade, but for some other junk loot, and you are into a nasty string of bad coincidence. Which is not really motivating.

[Lime]

why are you afraid of RNG??

Because I played Outlaw Rogue for a bit at launch.

[Deleted]

My theory is that it's because players have built unhealthily competitive and petty communities to exist within. The real reason for getting worked up over RNG is the fear of falling behind performance-wise. For example, people start feeling that they have the "right" to get "their" legendary, because the other guy got it to and now he's "winning" on the meters only because he has it. And now people are afraid for their jobs, uh I mean their raiding spots of course. It's just community immaturity.

It's also the sense of completion, at least for some time before the next tier of gear comes out or the next expansion wipes all gear. Also, many people here play multiple characters, and it's an incredible amount of chores to do if you want to reach any sense of completion on one character, and this is made worse for altoholics. If things would be dropping often, and random upgrades would correspond to Classic drop rates of items, then it would be OK, so you get a baseline equipment fast, and if you want to optimise, you have to farm longer. But this does not seem to be the case. So, my characters are stuck with a stupid assortment of gear, because I just cannot target specific items anymore without insane time investments.

[lucred]

Because back in Wrath I managed to go an entire raid boss fight with only TWO crits as a fire mage... During Mists it took me over fifteen weeks of weekly raids to get a weapon above NORMAL DUNGEON quality as an enhancement shaman, meaning I still needed a second one! RNG can screw you so thoroughly if your luck is bad enough.

[Deleted]

Because I played Outlaw Rogue for a bit at launch.

OMG I feel for you. My rogue is the first alt I leveled after the mage, and I stayed outlaw as long as I could, but after killing Agatha with Slice & Sice instead of MfD, I gave up on the spec and now enjoy playing Sub. Which is kinda sad, because I love the outlaw "class fantasy". :/

- - - Updated - - -

Because I still haven't got Ashes of Alar though trying since TBC, while my brother got it on his first venture into Tempest Keep. That hurts. I know this doesn't impact the game or my performance or anything, but still.

But as stated, some RNG is good to keep things interesting, but it shouldn't be too much. There should be some predictability as well, or a way to circumvent the RNG through a longer track (e.g. be able to get a good trinket early in a raid, but if it never drops, be able to buy a similar one once you get exalted with a faction or so).

I don't know how often I have killed the LK on 25 HC, no mount drop. I was farming this raid on multiple characters each week in WoD, nothing. :/

[Mixxy]

I don't know how often I have killed the LK on 25 HC, no mount drop. I was farming this raid on multiple characters each week in WoD, nothing. :/

It took me over 700 kills of Rivendare to get his mount. No exaggeration.

[Spazlord]

Legion does have a lot of RNG but it also drops a shit ton more loot than any other expansion ever has, in the Diablo style. So you do see a lot of shit loot in between genuinely good items, but you get a very steady stream of incremental upgrades. In general you get geared very quickly compared to prevoius expansions. Relics help here too, you don't need to hang out for 1 weapon drop, you get a steady stream of relics and people have higher ilvl weapons on average.

I liked the old style. Less items. Much, much less. I don't need to be showered in items, I'd prefer the game to gear you at a slower pace. More blue loot in the early end game (can't see this happening now with m+ so accessible), a few pretty good items from rep vendors, crafted items to be worthwhile.

BC was pretty much perfect in this respect, I'm not sure why it ever changed. You could get gear from dungeons and rep vendors to be raid ready, all of the raid tiers were active until the end of the expansion as people leveled alts, or ran old raids for a few good items. The ilvl gap was much closer too so tier 6 wasn't 18 billion times as strong as tier 4.

[Piesor]

Imo players are driven by rewards this time in the game. The further a character progresses the lower the chance for an upgrade. So RNG becomes more and more frustrating the further your character progresses.
I have a lot of alts, however only my main has a high itemlevel. Around 935-945 itemlvl (depends on RNG xD) I feel the lack of motivation to progress any further with an alt.
Same with legendaries. If my first two leggies with a new char are the worst ingame I usually don't play this char anymore.

[tankbug]

RNG makes things a little more exiting. Players need to be rewarded in other ways than seeing that 5 hours of playing is "you're 14% closer to your next upgrade".

[Deleted]

I see alot of posts with ppl saying it's too much RNG, RNG this, RNG that.
RNG is a huge factor of RPGs and i have no problem with it at all, so im just wondering, why are you afraid of RNG?

I mean, take Diablo 2 for example, people are still hunting that perfect rolled item, it adds replayability etc.

Imagine if you run into an instance/raid and get fully geared instantly for example, why would you want to go back there again if you didnt know you could get an upgrade, even if it's a very small chance? Are you just bored of gaming? Bored of the game? Why?

Because having to farm a certain dungeon, raid, boss or whatever forever in the hopes that you might eventually get what you want is by no means fun.

Nobody said getting fully geared instantly nor was it ever the case. Replayability is one thing but exaggerate farming for everything is by no means fun. Completed content should be just that .. completed. You finish it once, then farm it a few more times to get fully geared and be done with it. Finishing it and then farming it over and over for the rest of your life will just burn the fuck out of you.

Want a fun example when RNG wasn't even what it is today, fully farmed Ulduar 25 from 2nd week until ToC was released and we ever only got 1 single piece of conq shoulders .. ONE.