Raiding and M+ are NOT the same content. They need to stop treating it as such.

[Feida]

They just confirmed in the Q&A that Raiding and Mythic+ gear rewards will work the same as it did in Legion.

"Mythic 10 will yield the best possible loot once everything is unlocked, Heroic Uldir items from runs, Mythic Uldir from the weekly chest. This model worked well in Legion, so no reason to change it."

I personally hated this model. I do not enjoy Mythic+ content for a number of reasons, yet I feel like I am forced to do it as a Raider. This was my primary concern with BfA, as it was the thing I hated the most in Legion. I essentially had to faceroll content that I didn't enjoy, or I wouldn't be up to par with those who did.

The relaxed progression-based nature of Raiding is VERY different to the rushed time-attack content that is Mythic+. I find it absurd that these very different features and gameplay aspects share the same type of reward pool. I'm honestly amazed that they thought this "worked well in Legion", because I for one thought it was incredibly annoying.

EDIT: Follow up. <- I would appreciate it if you read this post before quoting the original, or not, feel free.
EDIT 2: Thoughts on M+.

[Risotis]

So you would rather be forced into only raiding, making dungeons a waste of time once the first tier comes out? More variety is only a good thing, doesn't mean you have to do it. If you're in a guild that's going to bench you because you aren't farming gear 8 hours a day, maybe find a guild that suits your playstyle/wants more.

[nazrakin]

Frankly, if you feel that you are "forced" to do something then thats your problem, not ours. The many people that enjoy mythic+ shouldn't lose out on alternative gearing paths because you have no self control.

[God Save The King]

You can skip it, or do the 30 minute run. I hated emissaries, but I did them every day until I got all my legendaries. If you want to be a competitive raider, you are going to have to farm and grind things to be prepared.

[plz delete account]

You can skip it, or do the 30 minute run. I hated emissaries, but I did them every day until I got all my legendaries. If you want to be a competitive raider, you are going to have to farm and grind things to be prepared.

Speaking of which, the OP clearly was NOT prepared!
*read in Illidan's voice for optimal impact*

[shaunika123]

Frankly, if you feel that you are "forced" to do something then thats your problem, not ours. The many people that enjoy mythic+ shouldn't lose out on alternative gearing paths because you have no self control.

I wonder when people will stop using this argument.

if you are a mythic raider you are absolutely forced to do mythic+ there is no way around it.

you dont "feel" forced, you ARE forced.

[slickwilly]

I wonder when people will stop using this argument.

if you are a mythic raider you are absolutely forced to do mythic+ there is no way around it.

you dont "feel" forced, you ARE forced.

Perhaps if you're chasing top 100 which 99.99% of the people here are not then maybe you are "forced". Get a over it. Usually the m+ chest item isn't an upgrade any way. Oh nooooo I have to spend a 1/2 hour doing one m+ per week on top of the 16 or so hours I spend stroking myself in a raid.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I found m+ to be at best an auxiliary gearing path. Raiding almost always yielded better gear in a more reliable way. Even without legendaries I doubt the ultra low chance of getting that one item from a dungeon is going to be worth it suddenly. Getting the odd titan forge from the weekly chest might be worth it like it is now, but to a mythic raider the 30 to 50 minute time investment once a week shouldn't be an issue.

[lappee]

You can skip it, or do the 30 minute run. I hated emissaries, but I did them every day until I got all my legendaries. If you want to be a competitive raider, you are going to have to farm and grind things to be prepared.

Couldn't the same be said about M+? "Farm those raids if you want to be competitive".

Double standards ftw.

[Dareous]

Only one forcing you to do anything is yourself. If you don’t want to do them then you don’t have to. Sure you might miss out on some easier gear but you will get there in the end regardless.

I really enjoyed the m+ it gave me things to do on none raid nights. Sure it can be faster paced at the start but as you gear up you dominate the dungeons without much work. You can even stop at the m+ weekly gear cap if you don’t want to push the harder levels.

This is the same problem blizzard had when they introduced world quests initially. Some players felt they HAD to do them all in order to keep up with the pack.

TLDR Just do things at your own pace and have fun, you get there in the end.

[Heavy Gains]

They just confirmed in the Q&A that Raiding and Mythic+ gear rewards will work the same as it did in Legion.

"Mythic 10 will yield the best possible loot once everything is unlocked, Heroic Uldir items from runs, Mythic Uldir from the weekly chest. This model worked well in Legion, so no reason to change it."

I personally hated this model. I do not enjoy Mythic+ content for a number of reasons, yet I feel like I am forced to do it as a Raider. This was my primary concern with BfA, as it was the thing I hated the most in Legion. I essentially had to faceroll content that I didn't enjoy, or I wouldn't be up to par with those who did.

The relaxed progression-based nature of Raiding is VERY different to the rushed time-attack content that is Mythic+. I find it absurd that these very different features and gameplay aspects share the same type of reward pool. I'm honestly amazed that they thought this "worked well in Legion", because I for one thought it was incredibly annoying.

Are you a heroic raider or mythic? If you are a mythic raider I could understand the annoyance if you don't care for m+, but personally I still think the time is negligible to just knock one out. If heroic is where you stop why is it even a problem? Don't want to do one then just don't.

[durrtygoodz]

The relaxed progression-based nature of Raiding is VERY different to the rushed time-attack content that is Mythic+. I find it absurd that these very different features and gameplay aspects share the same type of reward pool. I'm honestly amazed that they thought this "worked well in Legion", because I for one thought it was incredibly annoying.

Just so we're clear; you understand that for the weekly box you're "forced" to get, you don't need to complete the dungeon in time right. So there's no time attack, no rush, no pressure.

[Marrilaife]

Doing 1 dungeon per week is not really that big of a "sacrifice" let's not blow it out of proportion, in the past raiders had to do some small amounts of extra content like cap weekly badges / valor and it was fine.

What was not fine was the crazy AP / leggo farm early Legion brought also known as 2000 maw of souls spam. That one I hope to never see again. But BFA has no leggos, AP got neutered down from what I heard, and the nerfs for m+ that moved the goal post from "spam easy 3-chestable difficulty for titanforges" to "do 1 for weekly chest as that's where reward lies" made it much more manageable and less of a stress "I have 40 mins to do this dungeon but if I don't finish in 15 ppl will whine we didn't 3 chest".

Also tons of various class changes and m+ changes seem to be nerfing the "gogogo mass pull mass stun aoe spam" playstyle, which personally I won't miss, it was mind numbing and heavily favouring classes with aoe stuns and burst aoe (hello ww monk / havoc dh meta, rip spriests and frost mages).

Nerfing rampant titanforging also means there will be less pressure to spam dungeons past the point where you have the ilvl it drops baseline, and more of "weekly chest and done", which really shouldn't be a problem for raiders.

The only worry I have is about handling of azerite pieces and weapons, remember when Blizz said "weapons will only warforge, and azerite pieces won't warforge or titanforge"? That means a person who lucked an azerite piece / weapon from the weekly chest will have immense power gain over someone who just got ring or bracer, because there's no reliable way of getting such high ilvl weapons / azerite pieces outside of mythic raiding (which usually isn't cleared in 1-2 weeks unless you're named Method). And we all saw how bad power disparities can go early in the expansion when player dps overall isn't high so any big power jump is huge % increase (in Emerald Nightmare a difference between a player who lucked out a BIS leggo vs a player with trash one was around 20% of their dps)

[Kyanion]

Couldn't the same be said about M+? "Farm those raids if you want to be competitive".

Double standards ftw.

Man you got that right. How dare they force those M+ people to waste time in raids.

I still never understood the 'forced' issue either but that is a whole 'nother issue.

[Nevcairiel]

I wonder when people will stop using this argument.

if you are a mythic raider you are absolutely forced to do mythic+ there is no way around it.

you dont "feel" forced, you ARE forced.

That is however still not our problem. Your guild is forcing you, ie. other people, not the game.
The game offers you choices, and many other players enjoy those choices. Should they be rewarded less just because other people don't like to do it?

If you want to be a high-level player, you will just have to deal with the social pressure. Either you go do everything you can to get that M+ loot (and if you're a mythic raider, thats probably only one 10/15+ run a week for the weekly chest), or you find a guild that does not "force" you.

[God Save The King]

Couldn't the same be said about M+? "Farm those raids if you want to be competitive".

Double standards ftw.

Ehh I suppose. But M+ was implemented after raids, and their reward structure is clearly dependent on what rewards are from raiding. Blizzard has been clear that the best rewards will consistently come from Mythic Raiding.

I really wouldn't call it double standards.

[Alydael]

They just confirmed in the Q&A that Raiding and Mythic+ gear rewards will work the same as it did in Legion.

"Mythic 10 will yield the best possible loot once everything is unlocked, Heroic Uldir items from runs, Mythic Uldir from the weekly chest. This model worked well in Legion, so no reason to change it."

I personally hated this model. I do not enjoy Mythic+ content for a number of reasons, yet I feel like I am forced to do it as a Raider. This was my primary concern with BfA, as it was the thing I hated the most in Legion. I essentially had to faceroll content that I didn't enjoy, or I wouldn't be up to par with those who did.

The relaxed progression-based nature of Raiding is VERY different to the rushed time-attack content that is Mythic+. I find it absurd that these very different features and gameplay aspects share the same type of reward pool. I'm honestly amazed that they thought this "worked well in Legion", because I for one thought it was incredibly annoying.

I believe there should be multiple pathways (of the same level of challenge) to the "best" gear. This way, you can chose the one you like best and play it.

I think M+ is more of an "honest" challenge than Mythic raiding. On every raid team, there are basically 2 or so people being carried (unless it is the world first race). When there are only 5 on the team- there is much less room for stuff like that.

[Deathquoi]

They shouldn’t have to make other content crappy just to protect you from yourself. If someone is pressuring you to do something you don’t want to do, tell an adult you trust.

[Deleted]

if you are a mythic raider then you must already know that there will ALWAYS be "chores" you have to do to keep up in this game. the chores vary from expansion to expansion but they always exist.

if you want a certain result, you must accept a certain amount of chores.

[Kyanion]

Waaaaah I don't want to work for the rewards

Makes me wonder if it is some of the same people making these threads that also have been demanding classic realms so they can grind until their eyeballs fall out.