"Legion was great, surely that means BfA can't be like WoD and will be greatly too!"

[Onikaroshi]

“Super casual” for a hyper mmo nerd I guess. Most people found it to be a massive (albeit fun) time drain.

Comparatively yes, Most people wouldn't even get past the early levels of other MMO's at the time, that required things like grouping to level, or the lack of quests and grind requirements.

[TheFirstOnes]

Uh.... Vanilla was extremely casual for the time. You could level solo, the majority of the best gear in the game came from instanced raids, there was no experience loss on death, and so on.

Wow has always been super casual for each time period. Go play EQ or FFXI and tell me vanilla wasn't casual (not current EQ or XI either)

Ah, don't remind me.

But, what i'm trying to compare is WoW from back then to WoW now.

Nowadays, WoW's WAY too casual from what it used to be. At least with Classic, there were aspects to it that made the game hard, long, and very very worth the grinding.

[Armourboy]

“Super casual” for a hyper mmo nerd I guess. Most people found it to be a massive (albeit fun) time drain.

Didnt need to be a hyper MMO nerd, just needed to play something other than WoW as your first MMO to see it.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, don't remind me.

But, what i'm trying to compare is WoW from back then to WoW now.

Nowadays, WoW's WAY too casual from what it used to be. At least with Classic, there were aspects to it that made the game hard, long, and very very worth the grinding.

That's the point though, WoW has always been more casual than its competitors, why would today be any different? I mean WoW basically created the casual friendly MMO, all they've done is keep up with the times.

[Deleted]

Load of horseshit

Edit: meant for the title to say "great too"

Member when people used to ppolish their thread titles?

My god how things have changed.

WoD had many good things and a small amount of bad things, the problem was that the bad things outshined the good things.

That's not how proportions work.

[Bonkura]

That came from past Expansions, when people were playing them during those expansions.

Also, Heroic Argus isn't irrelevant. lol

Of course it's irrelevant when its done 8 months after the raid was released in a difficulty that was tuned for previous tier's heroic gear and AP.

At the end of Throne of Thunder we went back and did Heart of Fear with only Warlocks. That doesn't mean it wasn't a hard raid when it was released. Many hardcore guilds disbanded during that raid because it took them a week to get past the first boss and over 300 attempts without beating Grand Empress. My guild was the first in 10 man to beat it with _3_ healers. Everyone else had to do it with 4. That's how absurd the healing requirements were for that.

[Yroxcruk]

Member when people used to ppolish their thread titles?

My god how things have changed.



That's not how proportions work.

Ah yea sorry if i screwed up, it just aint my first language

[TheFirstOnes]

Of course it's irrelevant when its done 8 months after the raid was released in a difficulty that was tuned for previous tier's heroic gear and AP.

At the end of Throne of Thunder we went back and did Heart of Fear with only Warlocks. That doesn't mean it wasn't a hard raid when it was released. Many hardcore guilds disbanded during that raid because it took them a week to get past the first boss and over 300 attempts without beating Grand Empress. My guild was the first in 10 man to beat it with _3_ healers. Everyone else had to do it with 4. That's how absurd the healing requirements were for that.

Except all of the links i've shown were from current content...

Meaning, these occurred during current tier...

[Polarthief]

Can people stop giving WoD as an example ? WoD was made because of Warcraft film, and they didn't put a lot of time and investment into it because they were investing in the film and expecting big results.

Oh yes, because a GAME DESIGN team is the same set of people you will use for a FILM CREW. If anything, you'd mostly be asking the art/lore team questions and not even taking them for the movie, not the main team in charge of thinking and making new content.

OT: Legion looked great from the start and had a lot of promise. It could have been the best expansion if RNG was toned down, especially in regards to TF gear and legendaries. BfA meanwhile looks like Legion, but way less new stuff. Almost nothing new that looks like a lasting feature (Warfronts looks meh and Island Expeditions, whether you think it looks fun (or stupid like me), won't last past the last patch in BfA, just like MoP Scenarios), a much worse story (HORDE AND ALLIANCE WAR DURRR!) and nothing to really keep your attention, unless you enjoyed doing exactly what you've been doing for the last 2 years in Legion.

I won't be ALL negative though. The positives I can say regarding BfA are the small QoL tweaks such as War Mode (no more "locked into PvP or PvE based on server", which is huge), Communities (extremely late to be adding in Linkshells from FFXI/XIV in your 7th expansion, but hey, better late than never), and keeping the Order Hall (gold flow) but even less mandatory (and chaotic) than the last 2 times. That said, while nice features/touch-ups, I don't see people staying for these things alone. Patches will have to be extremely plentiful on content or new features or BfA is likely going to tank. Hard. Legion was fine til everything set in and became same-y. Broken Shore was a massive disappointment when it first came out (and still kinda is a disappointment). Argus was cool at first, but it got old after awhile.

So many people play this game and time-gating very small amounts of content behind a month or two just doesn't work anymore. Even people who barely play this game will realize that the time-gates are just to make it seem like there's more content when there really isn't. I'm hoping Blizz really delivers on patch content or I just don't see myself staying interested for too long with this one.

[Bonkura]

Except all of the links i've shown were from current content, dipshit.

??? Did you read my first sentence?

Ok, let's have a look at the rest.

Normal Garrosh. Tuned for ToT normal gear without legendaries. In heroic thunderforged SoO gear & legendary cloaks.

Heroic Archimonde. Tuned for heroic Blackrock Foundry gear. Done with full mythic titanforged HFC gear and maxed out legendary rings.

Normal Blackhand. Done with 695 average ilvl, tuned for ~660 ilvl.


All the kills were done heavily overgeared and all strategies figured out.

What was your point again?

[TheFirstOnes]

??? Did you read my first sentence?

Ok, let's have a look at the rest.

Normal Garrosh. Tuned for ToT normal gear without legendaries. In heroic thunderforged gear & legendary cloaks.

Heroic Archimonde. Tuned for heroic Blackrock Foundry gear. Done with full mythic titanforged gear and maxed out legendary rings.

Normal Blackhand. Done with 695 average ilvl, tuned for ~660 ilvl.


All the kills were done heavily overgeared and all strategies figured out.

What was your point again?

Still 5 manned.

[The Stormbringer]

'Greatly'? What, are you taking speech lessons from Donald Trump?

[TheFirstOnes]

'Greatly'? What, are you taking speech lessons from Donald Trump?

Ayyyee...what?!

...Huh? Greatly is a word...

[Bonkura]

Still 5 manned.

Yeah wow you can go back and do old content with less people when you outgear it. Stupid casual game.

[Polarthief]

'Greatly'? What, are you taking speech lessons from Donald Trump?

Picking on peoples' word choice, you must be fun at parties. They probably flubbed as all humans do from time to time.

PS: They even have "meant to say 'great' in the title" in their OP.

Ayyyee...what?!

...Huh? Greatly is a word...

Also this. It is in fact a word.

[Rafoel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuPhsm89grc - that video extremely well describes the content problem of WoD

Because problems of WoD are a completely anomaly in WoW's development history. After biggest content drought in history (14 months of SoO) we got a smallest expansion in history, with content cuts visible everywhere, and promised features being removed even before making it to alpha. Hell, entire zone, Farahlon, simply never happened, entire raid tier - Shattrath - never happened, and Taanan Jungle that was supposed to be in-game since launch wasn't released until last raid tier.

All that despite appearently "biggest team ever" working on it.

The explanation can be only one.

Somewhere FAR into creation process, they realized they CAN'T make it. The project was too ambitious. Too big. Too costly. Would take too long to make. And that project never made it live. They had to change their direction completely and create something new from scratch. They didn't have time for that either though. They rushed it, but were still late. They decided to ditch it. They saw the inherent design problems of WoD, but couldn't change it even a bit with so little time left. They abandoned WoD and focused on Legion instead.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yeah wow you can go back and do old content with less people when you outgear it. Stupid casual game.

Even though it's current tier, and is still pretty much relevant to the whole Expansion during that time. Out gearing Heroic HFC with Mythic HFC gear/the Legendary Rings shouldn't give you the excuse of 5 manning it. Also, Heroic HFC's tuned for Heroic HFC gear. Not for Heroic BRF gear. The fuck?

"Normal Blackhand. Done with 695 average ilvl, tuned for ~660 ilvl."

Again, not an excuse for 5 manning it.

"Normal Garrosh. Tuned for ToT normal gear without legendaries. In heroic thunderforged SoO gear & legendary cloaks."

And once again, NOT AN EXCUSE FOR 5 MANNING IT!

[Wvvtayy]

I could've sworn that you've played it for a solid 2 years at this point, when looking at the threads you've created about it being dog shit, over a month before we actually get our hands on the final product.

I've played alpha and beta extensively.

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Member when people used to ppolish their thread titles?

My god how things have changed.



That's not how proportions work.

Way to nitpick at typos because you can't actually argue with what I say lmfao

You know you've won when all people can do is nitpick about grammar and typos.

[Donald Hellscream]

Its objectively not like WoD.

Just the fact that it has stuff to do besides sitting infront of a mission table makes it not like WoD.

[Wvvtayy]

Its objectively not like WoD.

Just the fact that it has stuff to do besides sitting infront of a mission table makes it not like WoD.

No one said there was nothing to do. Just that there's nothing fun or worthwhile to do. Warfronts and islands suck ass and only give worthwhile rewards once per week. M+ most just do once per week for the chest.

[Underverse]

I don't think it's useful to try to predict the success of an expansion based on past successes and failures. Let's judge it after we play it for a while.

Also, Blizzard tries new things every expansion. Sometimes they turn out great, and other times they don't. I would like to see them continue to take risks because I think it makes the game more interesting.