The classes feel really good since pre-patch!

[Simca]

I played all of the specializations in the game in 7.3.5, and they all felt about the same with the exception of the 3 reworked specializations. The good changes are mostly balanced out by the bad in terms of gameplay. As an example, Holy and Discipline Priests feel better to play now, but Shadow Priest feels worse.

Honestly, BFA changed far, far less than most previous expansions I think when it comes to how the classes play. Think about all the extensive reworks we've seen in the past, even in just Legion. The stat squish bringing down secondary stat levels has changed more about the feel of specializations than Blizzard themselves did.

I will say they did a better job this expansion than any in the past about making talents interesting (in general; there are exceptions). They're finally getting to the place we were promised in 4.0 with the talent overhaul where there are interesting choices. As a Holy Paladin for example, it is very, very difficult to pick a 'wrong' talent now. It really is.

The GCD changes affecting healers and tanks in particular are an intensely stupid idea (for DPS, it's whatever). I have some hope that they will figure this out and fix it, but they've let me down in this area enough in the past for it to only be a small hope.

Still, I agree with other posters when I say: if you think all the specializations feel amazing since pre-patch, then you didn't play them all in 7.3.5. They were all basically the same with a couple exceptions. Hell, below I'll attempt to quantify the changes somewhat in response to another post, and it's not a super impressive list.

I beg to differ.

I love WoW, but more pruning, less choices (i.e. talents offering spells that should be BASELINE) etc. and further simplification of the classes. Perhaps they're balanced better in terms of PvP, but otherwise I don't think the majority feel this way.

More pruning? Less baseline spells?

I mean it's true for some specializations, but not as a general statement. It's more absurd to say that there was more pruning than to say they were giving us things. Some specializations lost 1 ability (their artifact), but all of the others gained. Only about a third of the specializations had a net loss (and then only a single ability). The majority either had a net gain or were neutral in terms of gain/loss for abilities.

Every specialization lost their artifact, but remember that these were also added:

DH: Consume Magic/Disrupt, Torment (for Havoc)
DK: Death's Advance (but lost Wraith Walk, so this balances out to a net loss when considering artifact but is still nice because Wraith Walk is a talent allowing for 2 movement abilities at once)
Druid: Hibernate, Soothe
Hunter: Command Pet, baseline Intimidation (for Beast Mastery)
Mage: Arcane Intellect, Remove Curse
Monk: baseline Leg Sweep
Priest: Power Word: Fortitude, Holy Nova (for Discipline), Mind Sear (for Shadow)
Paladin: None
Rogue: None
Shaman: Tremor Totem, baseline Capacitor Totem
Warlock: baseline Shadowfury
Warrior: Battle Shout, baseline Sweeping Strikes (for Arms, but lost Cleave), baseline Avatar and Shockwave (for Protection)

I'm sure I'm missing a few cases, and I didn't include the reworked specializations (Marks, Survival, Demonology). However, by my napkin math, only 3 classes (9 specializations) in the game suffered a net loss in abilities: Death Knight, Paladin, and Rogue. Around another 25% of the specializations were neutral in terms of ability gain/loss, and the rest gained abilities.

[Ghostmind]

Sure you can. You just can't say it's good when it's not. As soon as it goes back to being good again, you can say all the good things you want.

Good or bad specs are a matter of opinion, not talking numbers and tuning. To most people it might feel bad but to him it feels good, yet he can't say so because "You can't say it's good when it's not"...

[Wild]

I really dont miss the artifact abilities and traits. What I dont like are the GCD changes. Makes the class feel so...uurrrghghh (theres no word for this!)
The class itself feels fine. I love the stat squishy!

[Echocho]

For the 1st time in as far as i can remember all of the classes feel really good. Way better than before the patch.

The problem comes later when you lose legendaries, tier sets and most of your secondary stats not to get them back in BfA. If you remove half your gear especially legendaries and tier sets you'll get a sense of how your character is going to play for the entirety of BfA.

[Aigilas]

i'm just surprised this is not a jaylock thread

[RobertMugabe]

Most of the classes are just fine and some have even improved.

People just like to overblow class changes, like every goddamn expansion. And no, the reactions aren't bigger as compared to the previous expansions. I remember threads about class changes in MoP being ENDLESSLY long, however everyone seems to have either missed or forgotten that. And don't get me even started about class changes in WoD and especially Legion.

EDIT: Oh and btw: In the last couple days I've played Monk (brm and WW), rogue, druid (all specs except Guardian) and prot paladin... and all of them felt really nice gameplay-wise. IMHO, Outlaw rogue and balance druid are much better now than they were (however they are also well geared)

[Galathir]

My main (frost DK) feels like garbage, other than having the overpowered double Cold Heart proc that will last for another few weeks. The Frost talents before had beautiful synergy and now it's a complete goddamn mess. Making Ice Cap a level 100 talent was the cherry on the shit sundae.

However, my BM hunter alt feels completely awesome now and may actually be my main unless they fix my main.

The only problem I have with Frost (and Unholy too for that matter) is that it feels so slow. I have several seconds of downtime in my rotation and that makes it hard to keep BoS up as long as I'd wish (and kills a bit of the enjoyment of course).

However if I kept BoS up for longer I'd completely trash everyone else damagewise considering I was always in the top 3 during our two raids last week. It was a really nice race for the top spot between me, our shamys, the rogue and the hunter so I guess it's balanced this way.

[RobertMugabe]

of course it's a troll post! we have the "classes feels like shit since pre patch" thread at the top of the forum for the last 2 days. If op have a different opinion, he could have express it in the other thread (and he certainly did, with this account or another one) but he made this thread, just to tell us his opinion without any explanation??

Who cares, the original thread you've named was also just a shitpost.

[Deleted]

More pruning? Less baseline spells?

I mean it's true for some specializations, but not as a general statement. It's more absurd to say that there was more pruning than to say they were giving us things. Some specializations lost 1 ability (their artifact), but all of the others gained. Only about a third of the specializations had a net loss (and then only a single ability). The majority either had a net gain or were neutral in terms of gain/loss for abilities.

Every specialization lost their artifact, but remember that these were also added:

DH: Consume Magic/Disrupt, Torment (for Havoc)
DK: Death's Advance (but lost Wraith Walk, so this balances out to a net loss when considering artifact but is still nice because Wraith Walk is a talent allowing for 2 movement abilities at once)
Druid: Hibernate, Soothe
Hunter: Command Pet, baseline Intimidation (for Beast Mastery)
Mage: Arcane Intellect, Remove Curse
Monk: baseline Leg Sweep
Priest: Power Word: Fortitude, Holy Nova (for Discipline), Mind Sear (for Shadow)
Paladin: None
Rogue: None
Shaman: Tremor Totem, baseline Capacitor Totem
Warlock: baseline Shadowfury
Warrior: Battle Shout, baseline Sweeping Strikes (for Arms, but lost Cleave), baseline Avatar and Shockwave (for Protection)

I'm sure I'm missing a few cases, and I didn't include the reworked specializations (Marks, Survival, Demonology). However, by my napkin math, only 3 classes (9 specializations) in the game suffered a net loss in abilities: Death Knight, Paladin, and Rogue. Around another 25% of the specializations were neutral in terms of ability gain/loss, and the rest gained abilities.

come on …. you know most of those skill were there for those specs before they decided to prune the first time. they just gave some spell back to us. lots of Baseline spells became talents, some of them are on the same tier…. it's a joke when someone say that they "Added" tremor totem, PW:fortitude, battle shout, arcane intelect, holy nova for disc, etc …. there was a time all of those spells were Baseline for the whole class, not only a spec or two of the class.


it's like you have 10 000$, someone take 8000$ from you, later he give back 2000$ and you fell as good as that time when you had 10k...

- - - Updated - - -

Who cares, the original thread you've named was also just a shitpost.

the poster I was responding to seems to care. and if the original thread was "ALSO" just a shitpost, then this one is obviously a shitpost, since it's an obvious responce to that thread… and if you don't care, just ignore then...

[Dahij]

The problem comes later when you lose legendaries, tier sets and most of your secondary stats not to get them back in BfA. If you remove half your gear especially legendaries and tier sets you'll get a sense of how your character is going to play for the entirety of BfA.

Damn, forgot they removed gear progression in BFA. I Guess 5man dungeon gear from launch is going to be used until 9.0.

[Echocho]

Damn, forgot they removed gear progression in BFA. I Guess 5man dungeon gear from launch is going to be used until 9.0.

No but they've cut down the secondary stat progression by A LOT. Your primary stat (int, str, agi) will go up by a massive amount but you mastery, crit, haste and vers will stay pretty much the same throughout the entire expansion due to how they've changed the scaling.

[Qnubi]

No troll post here, I am also happy with all the classes. Since I am an alt-aholic I welcome any changes that simplify them.

I wonder what people would do to not prune and at the same time keep adding passives and actives. The game would be a mess, we would have 50+ abilities and passives by now. You HAVE to prune at some point, the same you have to stat squish every once in a while or it grows out of hand. You can not realistically keep adding abilities and passives without bloating the game to the point it's just a big mess. Arm-chair devs obviously don't understand this.

[Dahij]

No but they've cut down the secondary stat progression by A LOT. Your primary stat (int, str, agi) will go up by a massive amount but you mastery, crit, haste and vers will stay pretty much the same throughout the entire expansion due to how they've changed the scaling.

So they just went back to how it was before the legion buff? Sounds good to me.

[Echocho]

So they just went back to how it was before the legion buff? Sounds good to me.

I think it depends on what spec you play. Some feel good when you're at 25% haste but feel really slow at 10% haste for example. Fury warrior is a good example of a spec that's designed around much lower haste levels, they made it naturally faster to compensate.

[Jyggalag]

Feral plays shit. Maybe it's just me but i'm way too energy starved to keep rake up on more than 2 targets and actually get a rotation going let alone rip on each. Can't comment on anything else as of yet

[Deleted]

Feral plays shit. Maybe it's just me but i'm way too energy starved to keep rake up on more than 2 targets and actually get a rotation going let alone rip on each. Can't comment on anything else as of yet

It seems quite simple - if your resource generation cannot be improved with talents and hinges on secondary stats, you will be screwed. That's what they solved with new fury. That's how "chance proc" talents will help out (like retardin). That's why specs not heavily reliant on secondaries will not feel as garbage until 116-120.

Feral is one of those affected very negatively. DH lost a lot of pace too when you drop tier and leggos.

It's sad to regress.

[Dahij]

I think it depends on what spec you play. Some feel good when you're at 25% haste but feel really slow at 10% haste for example. Fury warrior is a good example of a spec that's designed around much lower haste levels, they made it naturally faster to compensate.

Well, its basically gonna be just like it was in the 5 previous expansions.

[Echocho]

Well, its basically gonna be just like it was in the 5 previous expansions.

Oh no it's going to be way below that. At the end of each expansion you've always ended up with crazy stats towards the end, like fire mages with like 40% crit, this time around you'll be lucky to break 15%.

It's the complete opposite of previous expansions, but that can be a good thing for some specs. Some of them are almost unplayable at extremely high haste levels. The downside is that your character will play pretty much the same at the end of BfA as it does at the start, so if you play a spec you find slow for example it probably won't get better during the expansion.

[Kynario]

I played all of the specializations in the game in 7.3.5, and they all felt about the same with the exception of the 3 reworked specializations. The good changes are mostly balanced out by the bad in terms of gameplay. As an example, Holy and Discipline Priests feel better to play now, but Shadow Priest feels worse.

Honestly, BFA changed far, far less than most previous expansions I think when it comes to how the classes play. Think about all the extensive reworks we've seen in the past, even in just Legion. The stat squish bringing down secondary stat levels has changed more about the feel of specializations than Blizzard themselves did.

I will say they did a better job this expansion than any in the past about making talents interesting (in general; there are exceptions). They're finally getting to the place we were promised in 4.0 with the talent overhaul where there are interesting choices. As a Holy Paladin for example, it is very, very difficult to pick a 'wrong' talent now. It really is.

The GCD changes affecting healers and tanks in particular are an intensely stupid idea (for DPS, it's whatever). I have some hope that they will figure this out and fix it, but they've let me down in this area enough in the past for it to only be a small hope.

Still, I agree with other posters when I say: if you think all the specializations feel amazing since pre-patch, then you didn't play them all in 7.3.5. They were all basically the same with a couple exceptions. Hell, below I'll attempt to quantify the changes somewhat in response to another post, and it's not a super impressive list.



More pruning? Less baseline spells?

I mean it's true for some specializations, but not as a general statement. It's more absurd to say that there was more pruning than to say they were giving us things. Some specializations lost 1 ability (their artifact), but all of the others gained. Only about a third of the specializations had a net loss (and then only a single ability). The majority either had a net gain or were neutral in terms of gain/loss for abilities.

Every specialization lost their artifact, but remember that these were also added:

DH: Consume Magic/Disrupt, Torment (for Havoc)
DK: Death's Advance (but lost Wraith Walk, so this balances out to a net loss when considering artifact but is still nice because Wraith Walk is a talent allowing for 2 movement abilities at once)
Druid: Hibernate, Soothe
Hunter: Command Pet, baseline Intimidation (for Beast Mastery)
Mage: Arcane Intellect, Remove Curse
Monk: baseline Leg Sweep
Priest: Power Word: Fortitude, Holy Nova (for Discipline), Mind Sear (for Shadow)
Paladin: None
Rogue: None
Shaman: Tremor Totem, baseline Capacitor Totem
Warlock: baseline Shadowfury
Warrior: Battle Shout, baseline Sweeping Strikes (for Arms, but lost Cleave), baseline Avatar and Shockwave (for Protection)

I'm sure I'm missing a few cases, and I didn't include the reworked specializations (Marks, Survival, Demonology). However, by my napkin math, only 3 classes (9 specializations) in the game suffered a net loss in abilities: Death Knight, Paladin, and Rogue. Around another 25% of the specializations were neutral in terms of ability gain/loss, and the rest gained abilities.

I understand, that's true too, but almost the spells you've named are spells we've once had... like Power Word: Fortitude or Holy Nova, it's not like they're giving us anything new.

They're constantly removing more and more spells, and making spells talents that were baseline i.e. Psychic Horror or Shadow Word: Death in sPriest. Where are new spells or all the older spells like Devouring Plague etc.? That's my main point. :/

Sorry for being so negative/bitching about this. I'm just saddened by it, as I've always loved the classes I've played and I always look forward to getting new and exciting ways to play them; not getting existing skills and choices removed and other skills that I've had in my spellbook locked behind talents.

[Dahij]

Oh no it's going to be way below that. At the end of each expansion you've always ended up with crazy stats towards the end, like fire mages with like 40% crit, this time around you'll be lucky to break 15%.

It's the complete opposite of previous expansions, but that can be a good thing for some specs. Some of them are almost unplayable at extremely high haste levels. The downside is that your character will play pretty much the same at the end of BfA as it does at the start, so if you play a spec you find slow for example it probably won't get better during the expansion.

Didnt know you had played 8.3 already. But Im pretty sure everything will turn out just like most previous expansions have.