Stossel: The End of Tipping

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Done both. Fast food is designed so that you have a station and you rarely move more than a couple feet in that station. You compare that to game night, you have 8 tables, balancing drink orders and when to get the food out at appropriate times, refills, salads, etc etc. and that isn’t even fine dining, which is a whole other level. Its like comparing teeball to playing in the majors. And with serving you actually have to give a crap about the food and drink you are serving. The shit fast food workers get away with is ridiculous.

Every restaurant I've work in hasn;t been tough. What, the metric on toughness is now about how much you move? Stations? Yeah, if you're only at the grill or sandwich area. But when you're in the front you're moving around.

Fast food is also more dangerous than serving the food. Fryers, ovens, grills. PLUS, as a waiter I NEVER CLEANED THE FUCKING BATHROOM. While in fast food I had to clean up shit or barf weekly, which includes the womens room. Working next to a major interstate, I saw some shits, believe me. That and period blood left all over the toilet.

Oh yeah, and what about the customers? Sorry mate, but people were routinely shittier to me as a fast food employee. As if I wasn't a person. Your body feels gross from the cleaning and food smells. Your soul feels gross from being cursed at for no reason, being lied to about "messing up orders" etc. Not that being a server was all pleasant, but it was much better. In the restaurant I worked, busboys would do most of the cleaning. Aw man, but I had to wrap silverware sometimes, or wash a table really quick! Boohoo!

But wait, there is more! I made way way way way way more money as a server. Between serving food for tips, and driving delivery pizza, that was some of the easiest cash I have ever made.

Waitstaff in the US act like they have the worst job out there and deserve more than they get. Sorry, out of the variety of jobs I've had, serving tables was some of the easiest work.

[Total Crica]

That is why I left the Restaurant Industry. I wanted a stable income, which being a server does not provide. Not knowing exactly what i'll make each month is too stressful when trying to maintain an adult life.

People really think that their wage is guarenteed at any place of buisness? Any buisness can go out of buisness.

I am not anyone's legal employer. I don't own a buisness to be able to have that title. I am not responsible for making sure anyone get's paid. Hoping I will tip you is a futile endevor, I don't tip. If a restaurant wants me to pay for their service/food, include the price on the menus, and I will decide if I buy from them or not. It's that simple.

[endersblade]

I just wish the tip-reliant staff would shut the fuck up when they do get stiffed. You want to roll the dice with your wage, and then throw a fit when someone doesn't abide by your expectations? Fuck you, suck it up and accept it like an adult, or get a job with a real wage, again, like an adult.

You know, I was going to write out a drawn-out post about why tipping is ridiculous, but you hit the nail on the head. So fuck'em. They want to stick with tipping, then as you say, enjoy rolling the dice. As a customer, I will not be shamed into tipping you just because YOU chose to go down this path.

[anyaka21]

Couple/few things to rehash and add.

1) What other industries do things like pay less than minimum? Sales. Car sales which are strictly commision based, or essentially, you'll make min wage if you don't make enough in commissions. Guess who won't last in sales if they don't make mins. But somehow that's acceptable but tipping isn't?

2) The server in the video is right. If you ask good servers at decent or half decent restaurants, they don't want things to change. They make good money. $25+ an hour. Why would they want things to change to $15 an hour?

3) This is also a be careful what you wish for scenario. If things changed and the "tip" was baked into the cost of your bill, then essentially what is going to happen is servers and service will guaranteed be worse. First, everything at that point becomes about labor. At the slightest drop in customers, managers will be cutting servers off the floor, and instead of 3-8 tables, they'll then have 10-20 tables. Service would most definitely drop. Further, at that point a server wouldn't care if they gave good service or not, they're getting paid the same regardless. With tips, it's an incentivized business model. Typically the better the service, the better the tip. (Side note here: don't link the Ted Talk thing from YouTube from about 5yrs ago, the guy was an idiot and completely wrong and didn't know what the hell he was talking about).

4) Further, if the tip was baked into the cost, it most definitely wouldn't go to the servers, it would be lining the managers bonus' before the servers ever saw it.

5) to those servers who say they prefer the Euro model, I'd say they worked in a shitty restaurant and/or were a shitty server. I've worked in one of those restaurants. I lasted only a couple of months before I got fed up and told the shitty owners to fuck off and found a better job at a better restaurant.

[Deleted]

I really hate the term minimum wage, it should be "livable wage" or something similar. You Americans need to unionize.

[Kathandira]

People really think that their wage is guarenteed at any place of buisness? Any buisness can go out of buisness.

That's not what I mean.

Where I work, I get 2 pay checks a month. I know exactly how much they will be. I can plan my budget around that without any worries. As a server, you have no idea if you will make $1,000 at the end of the month, or $2,000. Each day, you are paid based on the generosity of your guests. Some days might be good, some days might be bad. There is no stability.

[Poopymonster]

I really hate the term minimum wage, it should be "livable wage" or something similar. You Americans need to unionize.

That would go against the wishes of our Divinely Inspired Forefathers who built everything in this country so well that it should never change. You trying to bring in socialist communist atheist shit. This is America. We do things

[Coombs]

If I go to a fine dining establishment I will tip. I also tip well for haircuts and massages because those individuals are doing a service.

No one, and I mean no one, should feel obligated to tip at any franchise restaurants where one person sits you, another takes your order, a third delivers your food, and one of the two returns with a check. Most wait staff do very little and I would rather hand a cook money and walk to the area and pick up the food myself.

[Acidbaron]

So I guess Europe is a fabled place where magical things happen cause everywhere else a tragedy takes place

[Unholyground]

I only tip if they bend over backwards for me in Canada, but they are all paid fair wages here so it seems unnecessary.

[Deleted]

Minimum wage should BE a livable wage. It being described as the minimum wage is a perfectly accurate and appropriate term.

Minimum wage is much more abstract than grading defined wages based on living conditions and a livable standard.

[Krastyn]

1) What other industries do things like pay less than minimum? Sales. Car sales which are strictly commision based, or essentially, you'll make min wage if you don't make enough in commissions. Guess who won't last in sales if they don't make mins. But somehow that's acceptable but tipping isn't?

It's not acceptable. It is a terrible business model.

2) The server in the video is right. If you ask good servers at decent or half decent restaurants, they don't want things to change. They make good money. $25+ an hour. Why would they want things to change to $15 an hour?

Because you also run the risk of just being left behind. Anecdotally, myself and many of the people I know are tipping less now than before. I used to tip 10-15% on average, more if the service was above average. Now it averages below 10% and even less sometimes because I also don't tip as a % anymore because it doesn't often make sense.

[/QUOTE]3) This is also a be careful what you wish for scenario. If things changed and the "tip" was baked into the cost of your bill, then essentially what is going to happen is servers and service will guaranteed be worse. First, everything at that point becomes about labor. At the slightest drop in customers, managers will be cutting servers off the floor, and instead of 3-8 tables, they'll then have 10-20 tables. Service would most definitely drop. Further, at that point a server wouldn't care if they gave good service or not, they're getting paid the same regardless. With tips, it's an incentivized business model. Typically the better the service, the better the tip. (Side note here: don't link the Ted Talk thing from YouTube from about 5yrs ago, the guy was an idiot and completely wrong and didn't know what the hell he was talking about).[/QUOTE]

Pretty much all modern research has shown that monetary incentives for work that involves any kind of mental thought do not result in better outcomes.

And the whole "Servers won't care" line is absolute bullshit. I guess doctors don't care about how good of job they do, since they don't get tips. Maybe that fireman won't put out the fire as fast because hey, he gets paid either way.

If a manager wants to short staff and have service suffer because of it - which will result in less happy customers and less business, that is a bad manager.

4) Further, if the tip was baked into the cost, it most definitely wouldn't go to the servers, it would be lining the managers bonus' before the servers ever saw it.

And then the restaurant next door doesn't do this, and gets all the "good" servers, business goes up, while the greedy managers restaurant goes out of business.

You seem to focus on all the positives for tipping while ignoring the negatives, and then focus on all the negatives for non-tipping, while ignoring the positives.

When I go to a restaurant I expect the "normal" level of service to be:
Greeted and seated promptly when entering
Have drink orders taken shortly thereafter
Have food specials explained and orders taken when the drinks arrive
food brought out
check on how the food is shortly after
check to refill drinks / water periodically after that
Remove plates, check if dessert is requested
continue to check in for drinks / water until bill is requested.

This is the server's basic job. Nothing in the above should actually require a tip. If they actually manage to do it I'll give them a 10% or less tip. Having been out of town for work this week, so far 2 of the 4 dinners the server has managed it, and the other two times they didn't. None of the servers were exceptional. I travel a lot for work, and that is about par for the course.

What do you consider the differences between poor, average, and exceptional service by a server?

[Grimbold21]

Ehm, we give waiters minimum wage AND tip them in most places I've been to around Europe.

Tipping is optional in Europe, it's not the near obligation that seemingly is in American restaurant culture.

[Deleted]

No it really isn't. It's amazing you think a legally defined term like minimum wage is abstract.

Maybe because the concept is non existant here.

[zEmini]

I always tip 20%. Only a handful of times I tipped zero on purpose.

[Jonnusthegreat]

I couldnt be

I have a master's degree and I'd be a horrible server.
'Id fuck up literally every 2nd order
forget which table ordered what etc.


again, it's not about the skill
it's about responsibility, and replacability.

and again, there's a difference between "shitty pay" and "shitty pay"
sure waiters shouldnt be millionairs, but still it's an important job and a job nonetheless so you shouldnt literally starve if you do it.

Alright champ. You've got a bad memory. Glad I have a master's degree in remembering food. I can be a server. My buddy got her undergrad in writing stuff down, she can be a server too. Too bad you got a worthless degree.

[shaunika123]

Alright champ. You've got a bad memory. Glad I have a master's degree in remembering food. I can be a server. My buddy got her undergrad in writing stuff down, she can be a server too. Too bad you got a worthless degree.

well it's in screenwriting

so yeah, it might not be the most "worthy" degree out there, but still. it took quite a lot of studying and effort to get to the end, and yet i'd still have trouble being a good server.
but it's not exactly a memory thing, I Just have pretty severe ADHD.

I'm not saying it's rocket surgery, but it is a demanding job nonetheless.

[Jonnusthegreat]

well it's in screenwriting

so yeah, it might not be the most "worthy" degree out there, but still. it took quite a lot of studying and effort to get to the end, and yet i'd still have trouble being a good server.
but it's not exactly a memory thing, I Just have pretty severe ADHD.

I'm not saying it's rocket surgery, but it is a demanding job nonetheless.

It's not a demanding job - there are periods where it's demanding but you use your slow time to practice. Obviously working at the same place increases your performance. It's a learned thing. You can't be inherently good or bad at it. That's why it's an unskilled job. Like being a manager at McDonald's. Unskilled labor. Anyone can do it if they tried.

[anyaka21]

When I go to a restaurant I expect the "normal" level of service to be:
Greeted and seated promptly when entering
Have drink orders taken shortly thereafter
Have food specials explained and orders taken when the drinks arrive
food brought out
check on how the food is shortly after
check to refill drinks / water periodically after that
Remove plates, check if dessert is requested
continue to check in for drinks / water until bill is requested.

This is the server's basic job. Nothing in the above should actually require a tip. If they actually manage to do it I'll give them a 10% or less tip. Having been out of town for work this week, so far 2 of the 4 dinners the server has managed it, and the other two times they didn't. None of the servers were exceptional. I travel a lot for work, and that is about par for the course.

What do you consider the differences between poor, average, and exceptional service by a server?

Meh, this shows how little you understand. 1st and most basic point, you lumped in your greet and seat with how much you tip.... Basically the entire job of a completely different department within the restaurant....

Further, the problem with the above and beyond is laced with sexual harassment innuendo by yourself and everyone else. If the waitress shows some cleavage is a common statement (granted, not by you). Did she flirt, etc...

The whats extra service is often completely vague and different for different people. For example, if a server checks back a lot, how much is too much. I remember tables where I checked back a lot and they were fine with it. Some though got complete offended by it and didn't tip because they felt I was trying to get rid of them. Most times I'm checking to see if they have their credit card out and ready. Hell, other times I've left people alone after a point, then they go up and complain to a manager because I left them alone and trying to pay....

I would add that if you were always in the 10-15% tipper, then you have always pretty much been a below average tipper.

And per the 1st part of my post, you need to learn what is a servers responsibility and what isn't. For example, if it takes an extra long time to get your drinks and or food. Who's fault is it? The servers? Likely not. Backed up bar, bartenders that don't give a shit about anyone but their own customers, busy restaurant and you got your food order in and theres tons of order ahead of you.

In terms of specials, I rarely pimp the specials. Specials typically mean 2 things, 1) yesterdays leftovers that the chef threw together to make something, 2) stupid cheap promo that isn't good.

Further, defining a server based on how many times they check back is also unrealistic, though common. You aren't their only table. Sometimes they have another 7-8 tables. To add to that, many people also devalue a tip if someone else brings their food out. Do you even realize that busy restaurants actually have people that run food as their job (called an expo) or at least someone that runs the window and assigns servers to run other servers food. Then your server will run others food as they have time as well. People consider that below average service, when in fact its completely the opposite. You get your food quicker, fresher, and hotter. But a server is devalued because of it when it's actually the mark of a well run restaurant.

Granted, I have seen a lot of bad servers. I'd say the mark of a good server is that they treat all tables equally. One thing I've seen is some servers tend to focus on one table even though they have 7 or 8. 7 tables suffer while one server chats it up with one.

[Stormdash]

The only people lobbying to end gratuity are stiffs, or people who want to be stiffs. Don't help stiffs be stiffs.