Stossel: The End of Tipping

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

2) The server in the video is right. If you ask good servers at decent or half decent restaurants, they don't want things to change. They make good money. $25+ an hour. Why would they want things to change to $15 an hour?

I would then suggest that current servers shut the fuck up about how hard their job is compared to their low pay. Its seriously the job that employs the whiniest people.

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The only people lobbying to end gratuity are stiffs, or people who want to be stiffs. Don't help stiffs be stiffs.

Just the way that servers make it sound is that hey are barely paid anything and "only get 2.13 an hour!" .... if you go off whiny facebook posts I guess.So yeah, one would think that changed models would be better for them. They are their own worst enemy in that light I guess.

[Zantos]

I swear Joe’s Crab Shack tried this a few years back in select markets and the servers hated it as they came away with less money than with making shit wage plus tips.

A standard tip in a restaurant is 15% of the ticket. No one else, including the owner, makes 15% of sales as a wage. Im sure some people in low volumn cafes and such would benefit from a standard minimum wage. Any server worth their salt at any restaurant serving dinner and drinks would easily make more than the standard wage purposed.

It changes all the time. Everyone is like "tip this amount its standard". I don't confirm to that idea. I tip however I feel they earned. If they provided great service, they get a great tip. If my table remained dirty and they didn't check on me, but were eager as soon as the bill came, they are getting little to nothing. I am tipping for service. If the service is not rendered, then no tip.

Honestly? It would be better without tips. I hear in most countries where they don't have tips, they service is usually far above ours here. The only reason it remains is like someone else pointed out. The waiters don't want it gone. They make more with tips then they would with minimum wage. The transition could be made, as long as they are paid a decent wage.

[stevenho]

Honestly? It would be better without tips. I hear in most countries where they don't have tips, they service is usually far above ours here. The only reason it remains is like someone else pointed out. The waiters don't want it gone. They make more with tips then they would with minimum wage. The transition could be made, as long as they are paid a decent wage.

Why would the tips be gone if they earned minimum? People don't give a shit about their hourly, they will tip either way. There are entire continents where it works like that

[Krastyn]

Meh, this shows how little you understand. 1st and most basic point, you lumped in your greet and seat with how much you tip.... Basically the entire job of a completely different department within the restaurant....

It shows how arrogant you are. I've been both a bartender and server. I know how restaurants work. 1st and most basic point, not all restaurants have a host/hostess who seat people. If the place doesn't have a designated host, you can sure bet taht's factored in.

Further, the problem with the above and beyond is laced with sexual harassment innuendo by yourself and everyone else. If the waitress shows some cleavage is a common statement (granted, not by you). Did she flirt, etc...

Please elaborate as to which part of my post was sexual harassment innuendo, especially when at no point in my post did it mention gender. I pick places to eat because of the food or drink available there. I don't give a shit who serves me.

The whats extra service is often completely vague and different for different people. For example, if a server checks back a lot, how much is too much. I remember tables where I checked back a lot and they were fine with it. Some though got complete offended by it and didn't tip because they felt I was trying to get rid of them. Most times I'm checking to see if they have their credit card out and ready. Hell, other times I've left people alone after a point, then they go up and complain to a manager because I left them alone and trying to pay....

Yep. Different people expect different things. So unless the server can expertly read people, please explain what is "above average" service.

I would add that if you were always in the 10-15% tipper, then you have always pretty much been a below average tipper.

For my area, no. 10-15% has been the average or the last two decades.

And per the 1st part of my post, you need to learn what is a servers responsibility and what isn't. For example, if it takes an extra long time to get your drinks and or food. Who's fault is it? The servers? Likely not. Backed up bar, bartenders that don't give a shit about anyone but their own customers, busy restaurant and you got your food order in and theres tons of order ahead of you.

You need to actually read, and stop trying to put words into my mouth. Did anything in my post mention how long it takes to bring drinks, or how long the food takes, or if I was rating them on the quality of the food? No. So don't tell me I don't know their job and list off stuff I didn't even say was their responsibility, and was not a criteria as to how they would be judged.

In terms of specials, I rarely pimp the specials. Specials typically mean 2 things, 1) yesterdays leftovers that the chef threw together to make something, 2) stupid cheap promo that isn't good.

The server doesn't have to pimp the special. Just say what it is. And if that's the kind of specials the place you work offers, I'd question the quality of the establishment.

Further, defining a server based on how many times they check back is also unrealistic, though common. You aren't their only table. Sometimes they have another 7-8 tables. To add to that, many people also devalue a tip if someone else brings their food out. Do you even realize that busy restaurants actually have people that run food as their job (called an expo) or at least someone that runs the window and assigns servers to run other servers food. Then your server will run others food as they have time as well. People consider that below average service, when in fact its completely the opposite. You get your food quicker, fresher, and hotter. But a server is devalued because of it when it's actually the mark of a well run restaurant.

Yes, I realize how busy restaurants work. I completely disagree with your logic though. The less work a server does should definitely impact how much of a tip. I'll tip a server more in a small diner where they don't have a host, expo, buser, or other helpers vs a fancier restaurant where I see my actual server 3 times during the meal.

Granted, I have seen a lot of bad servers. I'd say the mark of a good server is that they treat all tables equally. One thing I've seen is some servers tend to focus on one table even though they have 7 or 8. 7 tables suffer while one server chats it up with one.

But you still haven't shown what that equality is, or justified why a tip should be a %, or why a tip should even be justified in the first place.

[anyaka21]

I would then suggest that current servers shut the fuck up about how hard their job is compared to their low pay. Its seriously the job that employs the whiniest people.

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Just the way that servers make it sound is that hey are barely paid anything and "only get 2.13 an hour!" .... if you go off whiny facebook posts I guess.So yeah, one would think that changed models would be better for them. They are their own worst enemy in that light I guess.

nah, it just comes across that way because of threads like this. But really, every day in pretty much every profession, there are people who complain about their jobs on social media from all walks of life. So, no, waiters aren't any whinier than any other type of worker.

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It shows how arrogant you are. I've been both a bartender and server. I know how restaurants work. 1st and most basic point, not all restaurants have a host/hostess who seat people. If the place doesn't have a designated host, you can sure bet taht's factored in.



Please elaborate as to which part of my post was sexual harassment innuendo, especially when at no point in my post did it mention gender. I pick places to eat because of the food or drink available there. I don't give a shit who serves me.




Yep. Different people expect different things. So unless the server can expertly read people, please explain what is "above average" service.



For my area, no. 10-15% has been the average or the last two decades.



You need to actually read, and stop trying to put words into my mouth. Did anything in my post mention how long it takes to bring drinks, or how long the food takes, or if I was rating them on the quality of the food? No. So don't tell me I don't know their job and list off stuff I didn't even say was their responsibility, and was not a criteria as to how they would be judged.



The server doesn't have to pimp the special. Just say what it is. And if that's the kind of specials the place you work offers, I'd question the quality of the establishment.



Yes, I realize how busy restaurants work. I completely disagree with your logic though. The less work a server does should definitely impact how much of a tip. I'll tip a server more in a small diner where they don't have a host, expo, buser, or other helpers vs a fancier restaurant where I see my actual server 3 times during the meal.



But you still haven't shown what that equality is, or justified why a tip should be a %, or why a tip should even be justified in the first place.

If you had actually read what I wrote, you'd realize, in terms of sexual harassment, I actually specifically mentioned that you didn't use an innuendo. It's just a really common points that show up in every single thread about tipping. People say they want extra special service to give a tip, and mention things like showing a little cleavage or wiggle their asses, etc... What I find the most laughable are the people that continually try and flirt with servers and give out phone numbers like candy, but tip like shit. Protip for those that do: Your number goes into the garbage or gets burned in effigy on a smoke break.

In terms of good service. What I always tried to do was to make sure every customer was up to date on their food and drinks. Checked with the kitchen to know where and roughly how long their meals are going to take. I always tried early in the meal to know how a customer wanted their meal to be paced. Where they in for a quickie or a long drawn out experience. If drinks were taking a while in the bar, I'd make sure the customer knew the bar was backed up and see if they wanted anythign else. Further, near the end, I'd make sure I boxed up their meals should they need it instead of noticing tons of servers that just set boxes down on the tables and made the customerd do it themselves.

I was never overly chatty with tables because I always wanted to make everyone got served equally. I'd still use a few one liners and crack a joke every now and then but for the most part, I always tried to be there for a table if they needed me.

In terms of a server that you assume does less for a table. It's completely false. Just because someone else delivered your food, however doesn't mean that your server wasn't slacking because they were likely delivering food to someone elses table. Further, if there was an expo, it also means that said server is likely tipping out the expo. And exactly the same with a busser. All of which servers are required to tip out. Hell, a lot of restaurants now are based on the sales of the server and as thus, it becomes automatic. Thus stiffing a server means that server loses money on a table if they get tipped less than the mandatory tipout, typically 3-5% of their sales.

In terms of percentages. it's really based on what the government as dictated that servers assume they make. Lots of computerized tracking and credit card tips show what a server makes But the goverment dictates based on sales and not just a random amount.

[Cruor]

Because it would be too expensive for most people to go out to eat? Increase the wage thus increasing price of the meal AND a tip on top of it? Hell with that. One or the other.

[Deleted]

Not really, it’s just decentralized to give the Unions more barganing power to set it.

It's a lot more than that but, ofcourse there is a hidden standard. Minimum wage does currently not live up to basic liveable wage so you should either get a new term that is defined or redefine minimum wage to include being able to live at comfort in the us.

[zealo]

Maybe because the concept is non existant here.

It's not legally mandated, true. To call the concept non-existent is just as wrong, though.

Mistreat workers or otherwise refuse to sign collective agreements in a field that employs this group of people as an employer, and you'll soon find yourself in a battle against the hotel and restaurant union in Sweden.

[Deleted]

It's not legally mandated, true. To call the concept non-existent is just as wrong, though.

Mistreat workers or otherwise refuse to sign collective agreements in a field that employs this group of people as an employer, and you'll soon find yourself in a battle against the hotel and restaurant union in Sweden.

Yeah, it's enforced around the wellbeing and the ability of the workers to live on the wage, which means it's much more flexible than a mandated x$/hr, which requires a verbal world war to improve.

[Deleted]

I never tip, unless they really put in the extra effort.
Of course they already ear a decent salary in my country and don't need the extra money, but still.

[Khaza-R]

I really wish tipping wasn't a thing. Would make my expenses go way down.

No, it would just get reshuffled into the cost of your food.

[Poopymonster]

It's a lot more than that but, ofcourse there is a hidden standard. Minimum wage does currently not live up to basic liveable wage so you should either get a new term that is defined or redefine minimum wage to include being able to live at comfort in the us.

I think the term "Piss poor pay" does quite well.

[cordrann]

The real problem with tipping in my view is the imbalance it creates between what a waiter makes and what a cook makes. I'm sorry, but the person just taking orders and shuttleing food back and forth shouldn't end up making 2-3x as much as the people actually responsible for the food.

[Stormdash]

Gratuity is one of the only true and impactful forms of meritocracy in the workforce, anywhere, and it's unique to the service industry. Sure, there is some randomness to it, stiffs are awful people and will stiff when it suits them -- but you can very easily see in a front-of-house staff that overall, better servers get better tips because they are doing a better job. Half-assed servers who constantly smell like their smoke break and don't lean in on anticipating their tables' needs get more mediocre tips because they are more mediocre at their job.

[Deleted]

Gratuity is one of the only true and impactful forms of meritocracy in the workforce, anywhere, and it's unique to the service industry. Sure, there is some randomness to it, stiffs are awful people and will stiff when it suits them -- but you can very easily see in a front-of-house staff that overall, better servers get better tips because they are doing a better job. Half-assed servers who constantly smell like their smoke break and don't lean in on anticipating their tables' needs get more mediocre tips because they are more mediocre at their job.

It also creates a tension between team members because they are always in direct competition with one another.

I've seen waiters literally come to blows because they thought the other was stealing tables of them.

[Stormdash]

It also creates a tension between team members because they are always in direct competition with one another.

I've seen waiters literally come to blows because they thought the other was stealing tables of them.

That's a disciplinary and team-building issue, though, not an indictment of the business model. Your hostess and/or floor manager is your god there.

[Will]

The American tipping culture is just seen as weird by Europeans, I mean okay we might tip a waiter or waitress if they delivered excellent service but we're sure as hell not going to tip a lousy server and we certainly don't feel it is our responsibilities to subsidize their wages :P We are the customer paying for a service. If we feel a tip is well earned, fair enough. If we don't, we don't. Most places 'include' service which means the price actually factors in a tip anyway so in those circumstances you generally don't tip. Sometimes the server isn't even allowed to take tips.

[Saphyron]

As I have written every time this comes up.

I live in a country where tipping is only given for exceptional service and waiters are paid a proper amount of money for their work.

Waiters in Denmark is on average paid 22620 DKK a month. (3036 Euro | 3518 US$) source

With an average work week of 37 hours that is on average 146 DKK (19,59 euro | 22,70 US$) an hour.
Which is a low paying job.

[Deleted]

That's a disciplinary and team-building issue, though, not an indictment of the business model. Your hostess and/or floor manager is your god there.

Well management has to constantly ensure that people are not taking advantage of the system, are not under-reporting tips if they are shared with other staff, are not stealing tables off other waiters, are not trying to manipulate when customers come in, etc.

[Stormdash]

Well management has to constantly ensure that people are not taking advantage of the system, are not under-reporting tips if they are shared with other staff, are not stealing tables off other waiters, are not trying to manipulate when customers come in, etc.

Which is a staffing issue more than an indictment of the business model, i.e. don't hire shitheads.