Mafia 109 - Game Thread - Russian Roulette

[Largehorn]

Can I get your reads list?

Town reads? Don't really have any specifically. If forced, I would probably say Dendrek, Dupti (who some assholes went and murdered) and you aren't getting a third. The flow of this game hasn't really put much of anyone higher or lower. I guess Graeham is a little above neutral right now and maybe Lysah? I've not really thought about it since at this point any of you could be scum despite my opinions on the matter, including Lora. YAY Paranoia!

Scum? I can't say anyone really sticks out to me. Can I say Lora three times so that we can all laugh at someone admiting they think the uncounter claimed cop is scum? After all, Lora is always scum right? More seriously though, there are people who have been quiet, but I can't really say that's scummy. Bage's play has been "scummy" but literally anyone other players standards but for some reason, I don't find it suspicious from him. Listo seems honestly the most "off" for me. The problem is I can't point to anything concrete. His reads seemed a little unique though, which is a point in his favor for me.

Wow Large, you've been wonderfully non-committal, so then who do I think we should lynch? I'm honestly thinking about tossing my vote on Listo. I really like voting with Lysah on Crackle mostly because I haven't decided if Lysah's opinions mirror mine because great minds think alike... or if she's got her hand up my ass somehow making me her puppet.

quote me where i said there was no rng. i'll wait.

Quoting you saying that exact phrase is going to prove impossible, but I would like to point everyone to this little exchange:

Are you sure your investigation was for me? I have to submit 3 names for my action and I have no choice who gets protected.

lol you can bullshit them but you cant bullshit me bruh.

That right there is what implied to me that there was no randomness in your role. Since the only thing Krayzy could have been "bullshitting" you about was his claim and how it worked. Now, you are going to claim that you were calling him out on the fact he wasn't the doctor, but since you haven't specifically defended that post before I pointed out... you could be lying about your intent at the time.

Now is that really actionable? No, but damn did it make it seem to me that you were now trying to back track earlier this day phase.

jokes are for day 1. doing something that can confuse other players and cause misinformation is not a town move and also not a joke.

That's just hilarious coming from you. XD

[Crackleslap]

Don't think Lora's scum, there's literally no need for scum to shoot themselves in the foot/distance themself what not when 5 of them were still alive. So lora's probs legit.

Me personally still feel like oging for Veredyn. He's a naughty boy. That and I only voted Marack for the sake of a train and just genuinely curious if it was scum initiated.

[Lora]

Town reads? Don't really have any specifically. If forced, I would probably say Dendrek, Dupti (who some assholes went and murdered) and you aren't getting a third. The flow of this game hasn't really put much of anyone higher or lower. I guess Graeham is a little above neutral right now and maybe Lysah? I've not really thought about it since at this point any of you could be scum despite my opinions on the matter, including Lora. YAY Paranoia!

Scum? I can't say anyone really sticks out to me. Can I say Lora three times so that we can all laugh at someone admiting they think the uncounter claimed cop is scum? After all, Lora is always scum right? More seriously though, there are people who have been quiet, but I can't really say that's scummy. Bage's play has been "scummy" but literally anyone other players standards but for some reason, I don't find it suspicious from him. Listo seems honestly the most "off" for me. The problem is I can't point to anything concrete. His reads seemed a little unique though, which is a point in his favor for me.

Wow Large, you've been wonderfully non-committal, so then who do I think we should lynch? I'm honestly thinking about tossing my vote on Listo. I really like voting with Lysah on Crackle mostly because I haven't decided if Lysah's opinions mirror mine because great minds think alike... or if she's got her hand up my ass somehow making me her puppet.



Quoting you saying that exact phrase is going to prove impossible, but I would like to point everyone to this little exchange:




That right there is what implied to me that there was no randomness in your role. Since the only thing Krayzy could have been "bullshitting" you about was his claim and how it worked. Now, you are going to claim that you were calling him out on the fact he wasn't the doctor, but since you haven't specifically defended that post before I pointed out... you could be lying about your intent at the time.

Now is that really actionable? No, but damn did it make it seem to me that you were now trying to back track earlier this day phase.



That's just hilarious coming from you. XD

If you think that implies shít i hate to break it to you but you a dumb dumb

[Lysah]

Totally not anti-town play by Lora here guys, move along nothing to see

[Largehorn]

If you think that implies shít i hate to break it to you but you a dumb dumb

I mean... thanks for hostilely doing what I said you were going to do?

[Loaf]

What if we're all Lora? :thinking:

[Largehorn]

Vote Listo95

I've been toying with it... so instead I'm just gonna do it. Got nothing to lose.

[Loaf]

the weird thing about it is Listo will lurk whether he's town or scum, even if it costs his team the game(and yeah, I get being busy and on at odd times :P) so idk how to really read listo's play. Do you policy lynch him b/c he's a potential town liability and at best a scum?

[Largehorn]

the weird thing about it is Listo will lurk whether he's town or scum, even if it costs his team the game(and yeah, I get being busy and on at odd times :P) so idk how to really read listo's play. Do you policy lynch him b/c he's a potential town liability and at best a scum?

My vote has nothing to do with "policy" lynching Listo despite that normally being the reason he gets lynched. His play just doesn't fell like townie Listo so far to me. I'll admit it's all basically gut feel and meta read but his play so far to me this game is very much like his last few scum plays.

[Graeham]

Unvote
Vote: Listo

Willing to shift to Bageloaf or Virothe for reasons outlined earlier.

- - - Updated - - -

Unvote
Vote: Listo

Willing to shift to Bageloaf or Virothe for reasons outlined earlier.

- - - Updated - - -

Unvote
Vote: Listo

Willing to shift to Bageloaf or Virothe for reasons outlined earlier.

- - - Updated - - -

...well, that's weird. The site duplicated my post?

[Largehorn]

Yeah there's something weird going on... happened to one of my posts either I just caught it fast enough to edit the duplication out.

- - - Updated - - -

Since it happened with my post that was for voting for listo.... I think some one is trying to tell us something.

Like that we should all vote for Listo.

[Loaf]

My vote has nothing to do with "policy" lynching Listo despite that normally being the reason he gets lynched. His play just doesn't fell like townie Listo so far to me. I'll admit it's all basically gut feel and meta read but his play so far to me this game is very much like his last few scum plays.

the policy bit was more of a talking to myself thing. I just don't get how anyone can get a read on him with how little he posts lol

[Dendrek]

[snip]

I don't like this post at all. Prior to this I had a town read on you. Now I'm not so sure.

You call it out yourself, but you do so defensively: this is non-committal. It's like you haven't been paying attention to the game.

I also do not like that you're still trying to push the "Lora lied" angle. If I weren't alive, I think you and Lysah would be pushing that even harder than you are.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't think Lora's scum, there's literally no need for scum to shoot themselves in the foot/distance themself what not when 5 of them were still alive. So lora's probs legit.

Me personally still feel like oging for Veredyn. He's a naughty boy. That and I only voted Marack for the sake of a train and just genuinely curious if it was scum initiated.

Nice attempt to not even try. You know I know you're scum, so you're avoiding giving anything concrete that might be used against you.

- - - Updated - - -

Stop focusing on Lora. It's a distraction and it's unnecessary.

If he is scum, it will be obvious when either gives a false investigation or he gets believably countered. But continuing to push any angle that fixates on him allows other players to avoid the attention they deserve.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd like Large to respond to me. I'd also like Crackle to, but I kind of doubt he will in any meaningful way.

Listo might be scum. But this is something I'm certain about:

Vote Crackle

Unless Lora has a guilty result, Crackle needs to be lynched today.

- - - Updated - - -
@Lora, I've gotten what I expected to get (except from Large). Now would be a good time to know what you got.

- - - Updated - - -

Vote Listo95

I've been toying with it... so instead I'm just gonna do it. Got nothing to lose.

I do not like this post from you either. Holy crap. "Got nothing to lose." Of course you don't. Scum would have nothing to lose when voting on non-scum.

- - - Updated - - -

Totally not anti-town play by Lora here guys, move along nothing to see

It would be nice to see you scum hunt against someone who isn't the claimed cop.

- - - Updated - - -

My vote has nothing to do with "policy" lynching Listo despite that normally being the reason he gets lynched. His play just doesn't fell like townie Listo so far to me. I'll admit it's all basically gut feel and meta read but his play so far to me this game is very much like his last few scum plays.

Listo seems honestly the most "off" for me. The problem is I can't point to anything concrete. His reads seemed a little unique though, which is a point in his favor for me.

I think Large is scum. I'm not certain of it. I'm much more certain about Crackle and Virothe. I want to see Large lynched before Listo. And if Large flips scum, Listo should never be the lynch target.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyone with votes on Listo, please remove them.

[listo95]

the policy bit was more of a talking to myself thing. I just don't get how anyone can get a read on him with how little he posts lol

You'd be surprised just how much can be learned from my few posts. Everyone is wrong in this case with me being scum... But they seem to think I am.

Vote: Crackle

[Largehorn]

I don't like this post at all. Prior to this I had a town read on you. Now I'm not so sure.

You call it out yourself, but you do so defensively: this is non-committal. It's like you haven't been paying attention to the game.

I also do not like that you're still trying to push the "Lora lied" angle. If I weren't alive, I think you and Lysah would be pushing that even harder than you are.

I mean... I have a few opinions on people, which have been shared. Unlike other games where we'd have a split of votes because a "majority" would exist I would much have much strong opinions of most of the players. That just isn't the case here.

I'm commenting on Lora's "bullshit". No way could anyone convince me to vote Lora today or for that matter until I have strong evidence that he is in fact lying.

For now, I'd suggest not giving details about how your ability works. I personally do not think you lied (though the information I have is exactly the same as everyone else's). You said random. You didn't say ambiguous. Large and Lysah seem to be assuming there was some ambiguity to the result you received N1. That is something I sincerely doubt.

I guess I don't get to expand on previous posts though in polite response to ones like this all the while making myself and my thinking more clear. Because that's scummy behavior and trying to push an agenda. You seem to be pushing really hard that anyone who doesn't defend Lora must be scum...

other players to avoid the attention they deserve.

Crackle yes? I'm okay with that.

Unvote

Vote Crackleslap

I'm willing to follow along here. Since mine's all gut feel with Listo. Multiple votes are actually pressure.

I'd like Large to respond to me.

Man you've got to deal with people needing some time...

I do not like this post from you either. Holy crap. "Got nothing to lose." Of course you don't. Scum would have nothing to lose when voting on non-scum.

It's a fuckin' saying. I have nothing to lose putting a single vote out ~ half way through a day with nearly ZERO votes out across the board when I'm going to be here active to move my vote as the day flows. What is with this reaction? Are you afraid that your buddying with the claimed cop hasn't been strong enough?

I think Large is scum. I'm not certain of it. I'm much more certain about Crackle and Virothe. I want to see Large lynched before Listo. And if Large flips scum, Listo should never be the lynch target.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyone with votes on Listo, please remove them.

You know... for someone who is pretty smart and well thought out... you can be pretty dumb too.

[Dendrek]

I mean... I have a few opinions on people, which have been shared. Unlike other games where we'd have a split of votes because a "majority" would exist I would much have much strong opinions of most of the players. That just isn't the case here.

I'm commenting on Lora's "bullshit". No way could anyone convince me to vote Lora today or for that matter until I have strong evidence that he is in fact lying.

You don't have any scum reads, except possibly for Lora (and based on this post, perhaps for me too?). Your best one as stated in the post I quoted is "Listo feels off." But then you go on to point out Listo was providing unique reads, which is a town point for him. You're down playing this point though. Listo has been surprisingly engaged today. He gave reasonable opinions based on concrete evidence. And he was able to defend those opinions. This is a pretty solid town tell for Listo.

I don't have an issue with your reads not lining up with mine. I don't expect they would. But you don't even have reads. And what you do have feels particularly scum-driven.

I guess I don't get to expand on previous posts though in polite response to ones like this all the while making myself and my thinking more clear. Because that's scummy behavior and trying to push an agenda. You seem to be pushing really hard that anyone who doesn't defend Lora must be scum...

I'm not pushing this angle at all. Pushing on Lora does not make either you or Lysah scum. But pushing on Lora is a pointless endeavor. What do you hope to accomplish? If it's not getting him lynched, then what? Because it is legitimately a distraction and town cannot afford that in a game setup like this. When you're too busy focusing on Lora, it means you're not busy focusing on anyone else.

Perhaps the reason you don't have any scum reads is because you haven't been scum hunting against anyone but Lora?

I'm willing to follow along here. Since mine's all gut feel with Listo. Multiple votes are actually pressure.

It's interesting that you're willing to follow along with me when you imply I might be scum.

Man you've got to deal with people needing some time...

Not at all. I had no expectation you'd respond right away. But I find this point to be interesting. I wonder if someone might have complained in the mafia thread about it.

[Lora]

Worg is innocent

[Largehorn]

You don't have any scum reads, except possibly for Lora

Because to be honest, I don't. I think Lora is playing against the better interests of town but I am pretty sure that's more an opinion of his attitude. You don't get to build a pattern of lying when it suits you and then be a pretentious dick about things when there are people that are slow to believe you because of said pattern.

and based on this post, perhaps for me too?

If I thought you were scum this would be a very different conversation. I wouldn't be responding beyond that.

Your best one as stated in the post I quoted is "Listo feels off." But then you go on to point out Listo was providing unique reads, which is a town point for him. You're down playing this point though.

I admit that I could have been more clear here. I didn't get all my thoughts into the post like I should have. That's on me.

Yes Listo provided some unique reads today but that still didn't out weigh what felt off about his posts at the time.

Listo has been surprisingly engaged today. He gave reasonable opinions based on concrete evidence. And he was able to defend those opinions. This is a pretty solid town tell for Listo.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. 5 posts in 24 hours shouldn't be the bar for "surprisingly engaged" for anyone even Listo. We are going to have to debate whether or not:

So those are the 2 lynches that have occurred so far. Based on those the big question for helping me find scum is going to be Virothe's alignment. But based on these 2 lynches and not knowing what Virothe is as of now I would say these are my town reads.

...

Scum would have to be I think: Virothe, Lysah, and Crackle. Not any real reasons just they are in spots I would expect to find scum on trains.

is concrete evidence. There isn't any consistancy in his "I would expect to find scum on trains". Crackle was a leading vote on Marack with Lysah and Virothe near the end (seemingly "saving" Virothe) but Crackle was the middle of Krayzy not that far removed from even you with Lysah and Virothe bringing up the rear again. There is no suspicion on the people between them on trains either. I guess he would need to avoid that because he'd be suspicious based on what I would judge his logic to be.

I would argue that you're seeming lack of commenting on that would be likely because his view of Crackle aligned with your own.

I don't have an issue with your reads not lining up with mine. I don't expect they would. But you don't even have reads. And what you do have feels particularly scum-driven.

I would assume by the last you mean on a "distracting" town based drive yes?

I'm not pushing this angle at all. Pushing on Lora does not make either you or Lysah scum. But pushing on Lora is a pointless endeavor. What do you hope to accomplish? If it's not getting him lynched, then what? Because it is legitimately a distraction and town cannot afford that in a game setup like this.

I disagree here. In a setup like we've got, blindly following "Lora" could be just as dangerous. Especially with what I felt could have been a back-tracking of his confidence last game day. I wanted to discuss it because

I can almost guarantee that all night actions are randomized to a certain degree.

really felt like the perfect setup to explain away an incorrect result. You can't argue that Lora wasn't SUPER sure Krayzy was scum yesterday but the above was Lora's FIRST post of today. Lora looked to be giving himself wiggle room and that's a dangerous thing to ignore.

When you're too busy focusing on Lora, it means you're not busy focusing on anyone else.

Perhaps the reason you don't have any scum reads is because you haven't been scum hunting against anyone but Lora?

Fair enough.

It's interesting that you're willing to follow along with me when you imply I might be scum.

You might be scum, but you are also the person I "trust" the most right now. I don't really have any scum reads... but I also don't really have any town ones either.

Not at all. I had no expectation you'd respond right away. But I find this point to be interesting. I wonder if someone might have complained in the mafia thread about it.

Oh that subtle "Large is scum" dig.

I apologize, I read your like 9 posts in the span of a half hour with no one posting in between as growing angry that people weren't instantly reacting to you. It was probably the bold... and the fact that every time I refreshed so I could see if I missed anything before I posted my response to you, you had posted again.

[Danner]

Worg is innocent

Well, that's at least info.
If nothing else, I'm happy that my read of him wasn't entirely off.
Godfather-possibilities aside, that is. But I don't think that's worth considering anytime soon.

- - - Updated - - -
@Largehorn: Not for me to defend Dendrek, because I too can't shake the fear that he's the MVP town as scum...

...but I can't also help think he's right in picking at you. You're currently a good candidate for my set of four remaining scum. Listo, lysah, you, crackle, veredyn and virothe are my primary suspects. I know at least two of those are wrong. Am I wrong about you? You've got a gold star for calling BS on lora's initial cop claim. That tells me you're not scumbuddies with Lora. But it doesn't exclude you from being scum.

Could Lora be a scum doing a play? Yes. Absolutely.
But if he is, we have 3 more days to find out before LyLo.

If Town-Lora is alive by D6 he either has investigated 3 more people, essentially leading the mafia to lose.
If Scum-Lora is alive by D6 we can talk about it at that point.

Dendrek isn't wrong. Lora isn't important right now. We should focus on the others. Right now, that's you six as far as I am concerned. Your list may be different.

- - - Updated - - -

Er. That's 3 more lynches before LyLo. Not quite the same thing!

- - - Updated - - -

No wait . 2 more lynches. Because we already did one wrong.
Geez, math too hard for this time of night.

[Nefarious Tea]

Who's Worg?