Mage or Lock for BFA?

[Lucrece]

Sorry about fear vs. invisibility misunderstanding. I was considering them as 'self-defense' tool in world content & dungeons/raids. In both cases I consider invisibility as superior simply because it's the safe option (no risk of aggroing a bunch of other mobs). And if you want to compare fear with poly, well, I think poly wins anyway, doesn't it?

As for self healing - I agree, it's way better for locks, however in content that I'm mostly interested in - M+ & raids - in the end if I die it will still be healers' fault unless I stand in fire or do something stupid. No amount of self healing / armour / self damage reduction will change that perception.

I will give you banish and enslave demon. The question is - are they better than reliable and constantly available poly+counterspel+spellsteal+remove curse and time warp & arcane intellect? Because I personally think that they are really, really situational.


PS. I also don't think that destro's infernal is up to continuous frosts' kiting potential.

Anyone who lists fear as comparable to polymorph hasn't done serious M+ as fear will pretty much overaggro half the time, it's a terrible CC in pvE.

Besides, people point the AoE stun but don't look at ring of frost or dragon's breath on top of all the other crap mage brings.

There's good reason mages and rogues have been the quintessential utility DPS classes. Their utility completely eclipses the others.

[Deleted]

Anyone who lists fear as comparable to polymorph hasn't done serious M+ as fear will pretty much overaggro half the time, it's a terrible CC in pvp.

Besides, people point the AoE stun but don't look at ring of frost or dragon's breath on top of all the other crap mage brings.

There's good reason mages and rogues have been the quintessential utility DPS classes. Their utility completely eclipses the others.

There is only 2 mages in top 10 but 6 warlocks. Get your facts straight

Warlocks have twice as high a percentage of paricipation as mages does in m30+

Going down to 26+ they are still higher. IN fact its only in the 0-14 bracket that we see more mages then warlocks

[Deleted]

Please, don't get me wrong everyone. I would love to play a warlock main in BFA (I'd prefer my original main shadow priest, but that spec seems to be beyond any redemption in the near future). That's why I still check locks' forums daily.

Nevertheless, as of now - warlocks seem to be gimped mages - worse utility and way more effort required (affliction AoE, destruction cleave) for the same results (DPS) in M+ & raid context. What am I missing?

[Deleted]

Please, don't get me wrong everyone. I would love to play a warlock main in BFA (I'd prefer my original main shadow priest, but that spec seems to be beyond any redemption in the near future). That's why I still check locks' forums daily.

Nevertheless, as of now - warlocks seem to be gimped mages - worse utility and way more effort required (affliction AoE, destruction cleave) for the same results (DPS) in M+ & raid context. What am I missing?

everything:

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...MythicLevel=99

[Lucrece]

There is only 2 mages in top 10 but 6 warlocks. Get your facts straight

Warlocks have twice as high a percentage of paricipation as mages does in m30+

Going down to 26+ they are still higher. IN fact its only in the 0-14 bracket that we see more mages then warlocks

You are showing stats for a current season. Get back to me on the next season in BfA.

Affliction is doing how it's doing purely because of what I said, being the 2nd/3rd strongest mythic DPS spec in warcraft logs after rogue. It's not brought for its utility. It's currently brought because the damage is the same as in Legion, heads and shoulders above demo and destro and several other specs numerically.

[Deleted]

everything:

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...MythicLevel=99

I'm sorry, are we supposed to pick our mains based on pre-expansion DPS in outdated content?

This reminds me of pre-Legion threads like https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-AOE-That-Bad where 'outsiders' where arguing that shadow priests are so freaking awesome (because of their damage in WoD content) that everyone should play one or miss out on the greatest spec ever.

[Deleted]

You are showing stats for a current season. Get back to me on the next season in BfA.

Affliction is doing how it's doing purely because of what I said, being the 2nd/3rd strongest mythic DPS spec in warcraft logs after rogue. It's not brought for its utility. It's currently brought because the damage is the same as in Legion, heads and shoulders above demo and destro and several other specs numerically.

This current season is after the prepatch. Its with everything we have of utility in BFA

Also:

"There's good reason mages and rogues have been the quintessential utility DPS classes. Their utility completely eclipses the others."

You said HAVE been. Not is going to be

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sorry, are we supposed to pick our mains based on pre-expansion DPS in outdated content?

This reminds me of pre-Legion threads like https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-AOE-That-Bad where 'outsiders' where arguing that shadow priests are so freaking awesome (because of their damage in WoD content) that everyone should play one or miss out on the greatest spec ever.

This is not a damage meter i am linking you. Its class participation in M+ at any and all levels you can set them too. You said:

"Nevertheless, as of now - warlocks seem to be gimped mages - worse utility and way more effort required "

Which is crap

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sorry, are we supposed to pick our mains based on pre-expansion DPS in outdated content?

This reminds me of pre-Legion threads like https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-AOE-That-Bad where 'outsiders' where arguing that shadow priests are so freaking awesome (because of their damage in WoD content) that everyone should play one or miss out on the greatest spec ever.

Their damage was awesome, and they where incredible to play. I'm not sure what yo uare trying to point out.

If you where one of the drones who wherent able to properly play around surrender to madness then thats allright for you

- - - Updated - - -

Alternative you lot can change to the post season(before the prepatch hit) numbers and look that here warlocks have more then twice the representation of both mages and rogues aswell
:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...MythicLevel=99

[zakalwei]

OP I am in the exact same boat as you. Played lock for years and just wanted a change. Have a mage alt and was really enjoying blowing sh*t up as fire

The most glaring difference for me was..you really have to plan your fights as a mage as you are very squishy. It can be very satisfying when you finally "win" but its more work. Even typing this I'm thinking...hmm it's not too late

[Deleted]

This is not a damage meter i am linking you. Its class participation in M+ at any and all levels you can set them too. You said:

"Nevertheless, as of now - warlocks seem to be gimped mages - worse utility and way more effort required "

Which is crap

So you're saying that locks bring comparable or better utility than mages and require equal or less effort for the same effect (DPS) in BfA?

Their damage was awesome, and they where incredible to play. I'm not sure what yo uare trying to point out.

If you where one of the drones who wherent able to properly play around surrender to madness then thats allright for you

I was pointing out that you are using outdated, irrelevant content to judge classes viability for the next expansion.

StM shadow priests were awesome, incredible to play in 7.0. On bosses in Emerald Nightmare. Otherwise they were garbage in dungeons, raid trash and world content (basically everywhere else, probably in PvP too). Oh, and if you had less than great internet connection they were garbage on those EN bosses too. Too bad that sites like raider.io don't take that into account.

[Gaidax]

Warlocks in BfA will be a core choice for M+. What kind of utility mages have that warlocks can not cover? Because all mage utility is provided by items you will be able to pick off AH. What's left? Sheep?

On the other hand you can't quite pick HS, Brez and AoE stun in AH and Warlocks will be pretty damn powerful damage-wise too there.

[Deleted]

What kind of utility mages have that warlocks can not cover?

Let's see...

• 50-85% slow on trash packs (frost)
• 30% haste on time warp vs. 25% from drums
• 10% intellect from AI vs. 7% from scrolls
• shorter cooldowns on remove curse, spellsteal, poly and having them all available (together with counterspell) at the same time

[Verazh]

Your answer is simple:
Mage main
Warlock Demo alt for pure, stress-free fun.

This guy nailed it. /thread

[Gaidax]

Let's see...

• 50-85% slow on trash packs (frost)
• 30% haste on time warp vs. 25% from drums
• 10% intellect from AI vs. 7% from scrolls
• shorter cooldowns on remove curse, spellsteal, poly and having them all available (together with counterspell) at the same time

So basically nothing? Remove curse and slow OoOOOooOO such utility.

Hard AoE stun, HS and Battle Rez are better all day long.

I mean seriously, it's not even a contest. Did you ever consider why they got magic damage buff to begin with? Because their utility was shit.