With items like these, is WoW Pay to Win?

[Ahlae]

Here is the complete list of ignorant users that cannot understand what is a "P2W" mechanic.


This happens when you drop out of college, don't do it or you will end acting like a fool on a forum.

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Also i bet 20bucks that all the users i quoted are LFR or 10/11 HC hero

I bet my ilvl right now is higher than yours. and yes, that's essentially what winning the game is. best gear to quite a few people, killing the last boss on hardest(mythic) difficulty for many others. Anyone else's view of 'game beat' is wrong, and they're not very bright. Ciao~

(Unless you can prove people can do mythic end game content in fresh max level gear, or that 100% of the playerbase defeats the end boss on mythic and/or gets decked out in mythic gear..)

[Deleted]

I bet my ilvl right now is higher than yours. and yes, that's essentially what winning the game is. best gear to quite a few people, killing the last boss on hardest(mythic) difficulty for many others. Anyone else's view of 'game beat' is wrong, and they're not very bright. Ciao~

(Unless you can prove people can do mythic end game content in fresh max level gear, or that 100% of the playerbase defeats the end boss on mythic and/or gets decked out in mythic gear..)

Titanslayer and Top 80 here but I guess your 350 itm lvl is incredible when you can't push the dps your gear is able to do.
Or you will be hanging finding a pug HC for G'huun mid September with that amazing 350 itm lvl while other people with 355 from LFR or Normal will do it.


That is a really "winning" scenario.

[Deleted]

Also I would like to remind you EN myth cleared with m+ gear


So please don't drop out, you are looking like a fool RN.

[Fitsu]

Win what, the normal raid race? Lol.

These items are gonna be garbage and worth 10k 1 week into raid release.

[Spiral Mage]

People just do crazy stuff like this at the start of every expansion.

I mean, if you've played at the launch of any expansion before, this isn't out of the ordinary.
Especially with tokens being as low they are, people want to make as much gold as possible to buy tokens for game time.
It'll die down in a bit.
And you don't need any of these items to progress forward.

[Enclave]

P2w only exists in PvP based games

[LiPiNo]

this is 100% not pay to win. anyone can get a BoE epic - anyone can grind out a million gold - and anyone can buy them from the AH. almost all the professions can make a 350, all of them can be used to make gold, and all of them are relevant through out the expansion for the most part and they arnt considered pay to win

This is the entire point of P2Win though. You can always grind it out, but some people can buy it and skip entirely something (content, farm, time, grind, name it..). The fact you just skipped it by purchasing it for real money determines p2w.
To make it more obvious, because this argument you used is thrown often, even in this thread :

Person A - has enough time and lats say good player whatver that means - already finished mythics in the first week with his guild, no issues, is now raid ready , farming reps
Person B - casual (but lets assume not noob) , finished lvl 120 starting now heroics , not getting kicked but can do one maybe 2 dungs max per day (even if) , could be ilvl 320 if lucky on drops now, will start with mythics maybe by the time when person A is raiding , will currently not get accepted into pugs for mythics due to ilvl
Person C - same as person B , BUT after ding bought few 350 ilvl , voala ! directly raid ready , no issued to get invited into any mythics no need to farm heroics or normals, can do reputations (proffesions can be now bought too via gold, to max it)

General error is that ppl always assume that only ppl with chipmunk IQ buy this stuff so it doesnt matter because they are noobs and will fail, thats not the case. Its clear advantage for time investment , ie. entirely skipping it.

PS : I am not against tokens , just dont like the general consensus that people need to feel better about wow, there IS p2win available, if you like it or not.

[Deleted]

Example of " How could WoW be a P2W "

1. Making Exclusive Gear behind irl money. [ Not Happening ]
2. Making Exclusive Weapon behind irl money [ Not Happening ]
3. If during Legion you would have been able to buy Legendary with irl money [ Nope ]


Not a single scenario happened.


The only, and last, time something nearly compared to an "gold for advantage" was during WOD when BMAH listed item from BRF Myth when there was only Highmaul Myth, and Chinese Guilds we're boosting their kills like this.

[Deleted]

This is the entire point of P2Win though. You can always grind it out, but some people can buy it and skip entirely something (content, farm, time, grind, name it..). The fact you just skipped it by purchasing it for real money determines p2w.
To make it more obvious, because this argument you used is thrown often, even in this thread :

Person A - has enough time and lats say good player whatver that means - already finished mythics in the first week with his guild, no issues, is now raid ready , farming reps
Person B - casual (but lets assume not noob) , finished lvl 120 starting now heroics , not getting kicked but can do one maybe 2 dungs max per day (even if) , could be ilvl 320 if lucky on drops now, will start with mythics maybe by the time when person A is raiding , will currently not get accepted into pugs for mythics due to ilvl
Person C - same as person B , BUT after ding bought few 350 ilvl , voala ! directly raid ready , no issued to get invited into any mythics no need to farm heroics or normals, can do reputations (proffesions can be now bought too via gold, to max it)

General error is that ppl always assume that only ppl with chipmunk IQ buy this stuff so it doesnt matter because they are noobs and will fail, thats not the case. Its clear advantage for time investment , ie. entirely skipping it.

PS : I am not against tokens , just dont like the general consensus that people need to feel better about wow, there IS p2win available, if you like it or not.

No it isn't.

Stop mixing " have no time " with " I sucks and can't myth raid or m+ "

Stop spread bullshit, wow isn't p2w

[Deleted]

General Error is to mixing " buying gear off ah " = p2w

This is pretty stupid and it gets worse everyyime somebody repeat it.

[Deleted]

There are 11 page of "constructive criticism" that you have ignored due to the bliss of ignorance.

More than " you are wrong here is why " I don't know what to do.

And I don’t agree with the criticism or opinions. We clearly have a very different view on what’s p2w and what isn’t. Your statement(s) are just opinions too.

[Deleted]

And I don’t agree with the criticism or opinions. We clearly have a very different view on what’s p2w and what isn’t. Your statement(s) are just opinions too.

No?

Because we clearly know what is a Pay2Win, or Battlefront 2 or World of Tanks.

Any RPG from Asian Country that you can download on Apple Store or Play Store is a P2W, buy Gems in Brave Frontier or Final Fantasy Exvius and Summon the new uber-stronk champion while other people can't really farm this currency.


Meanwhile on WoW people can't simple buy items that give no really advantage since it can be farmed or obtain through content.


Sooooo

It
Isn't
P2W

And it is getting boresome to explain again and again to people that probably are so slow that they compare DotA Chest or OW Chest to a P2W

[Tic Tacs]

Here is the complete list of ignorant users that cannot understand what is a "P2W" mechanic.


This happens when you drop out of college, don't do it or you will end acting like a fool on a forum.

maybe before bushing so many people you should explain yourself since you didn't drop out of college and is so smart.

[Deleted]

No?

Because we clearly know what is a Pay2Win, or Battlefront 2 or World of Tanks.

Any RPG from Asian Country that you can download on Apple Store or Play Store is a P2W, buy Gems in Brave Frontier or Final Fantasy Exvius and Summon the new uber-stronk champion while other people can't really farm this currency.


Meanwhile on WoW people can't simple buy items that give no really advantage since it can be farmed or obtain through content.


Sooooo

It
Isn't
P2W

And it is getting boresome to explain again and again to people that probably are so slow that they compare DotA Chest or OW Chest to a P2W

Ouch how unfortunate that you can’t even grasp what facts are. Your stance on p2w and your arguments backing it up is nothing more than an opinion. Many others and I clearly think WoW is pay to win, so why would your opinion be more valid ?

[sam86]

Because there were really no boosts to sell back then. There was no mythic +

And boosts have existed since forever, boosts for gold were never against the TOS. I remember selling Algalon boosts for gold in wotlk so yeah ... boosts were there

and I remember blizzard bringing the hammer down on selling boosts before, not to mention gold was semi-useless in game pre-tokens, heck the most pricey item i remember in wrath (not counting crafting gear that has ilvl as in-raids) was the mammoth mount, which was like 10k?
Since u claim u were boosting Algalon (something that wasn't easy until icc was out), it means u were raider, u don't need gold to buy best gear because u already have it, so why exactly a raider want gold pre-token era ? for flasks and potions ? raiding + few dailies can get u that, which cost less time than boosting a raid to Algalon anyway
Let's not forget the weekly raiding quest that ruined even more the idea of pugging a raid if it was on ur week
I seriously question why would anyone sell boost to a raid during wrath era in first place, it wasn't needed, high end raiders didn't need sh8tload of gold because they already get gear (main focus of gold), and a boost require far more effort and organize than just do some dailies to cover ur repair + flasks costs, unless u just want gold for gold, in that case i again wonder why would 8 other random ppl help u with that, or why not manipulate AH as some ppl were (probably still are, but server community is dead nowadays) known to do so, i met priest undead in TBC who did so, and in wrath a troll priest who also did so, and quit the game when his guild disbanded after LK death because transfer character can only have 10k back then (i think, not sure of exact number)

[Lilly32]

How exactly is buying stuff off the AH pay2win ROFL. This game been out for so long if you dont have millions of gold at this point you just suck at WoW. Ever since they added garrisons in WoD people can basically print gold just by doing missions. Also its newbie 101 advice to take gather professions. I made close to 1 mil in 2 days just running around and Herbing along with DEing all my extra greens and blues I got on my way to 120. If you cant afford at least 2 or 3 BoEs you are terrible.

[LiPiNo]

No it isn't.

Stop mixing " have no time " with " I sucks and can't myth raid or m+ "

Stop spread bullshit, wow isn't p2w

Dont miss quote what im saying . I didnt say i dont have time or the example person . I gave examples in which its clear pay to win, because by using money 1 of 2 persons is in much better situation than the other one, who CAN get there, but will take him time. This is pay to win and always was since korean grind MMOs introduced it. Just because other pay to win scenarios exists (straight buy of bis via money) , doesnt mean this is not one.
You generalize too much, has nothing to do with my ability to do mythic , i ll repeat - this doesnt bother me or influence me at all , if somebody is willing to pay to be ilvl XXX sooner, so be it. What bothers me you need to defend this option just so somebody cant say there is possibility to p2win in wow(because there is).

[Deleted]

Ouch how unfortunate that you can’t even grasp what facts are. Your stance on p2w and your arguments backing it up is nothing more than an opinion. Many others and I clearly think WoW is pay to win, so why would your opinion be more valid ?

We already explained it, if you are too stupid to understand I cannot help.

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Dont miss quote what im saying . I didnt say i dont have time or the example person . I gave examples in which its clear pay to win, because by using money 1 of 2 persons is in much better situation than the other one, who CAN get there, but will take him time. This is pay to win and always was since korean grind MMOs introduced it. Just because other pay to win scenarios exists (straight buy of bis via money) , doesnt mean this is not one.
You generalize too much, has nothing to do with my ability to do mythic , i ll repeat - this doesnt bother me or influence me at all , if somebody is willing to pay to be ilvl XXX sooner, so be it. What bothers me you need to defend this option just so somebody cant say there is possibility to p2win in wow(because there is).

No it isn't.

You guys have literally no idea what a P2W is, you are just envy of people that have gold or do stuff more elaborate than your weekly LFR.

P2W is literally taking acquiring something that isn't possibile to acquire normally in the game, it would be like buying an Azerite Set with new and stronger traits than current, for money and that Set wouldn't be in game.

that is p2w.


Buying stuff off AH with gold isn't otherwise even buying flask or enchant from AH it is, if I don't have gold and can't purchase enchants therefore it is p2w _durr_


see how dumb is your logic?

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Having New Race on Shop, that is op in pvp and pve? that is p2w

[Deleted]

General Error is to mixing " buying gear off ah " = p2w

This is pretty stupid and it gets worse everyyime somebody repeat it.

It's not only that. It's the ability to buy gold and pay for boosts. For some people, participating in a raid is irrelevant, they just want to get their achievements or mounts and be done. For these people, the option to buy gold via tokens / real cash and then to buy the boost is pay to win. They only need to find a group which will sell them the kill and loot.

Some things in this game are not continually, but one time events. If you can buy these with real money via token converted to gold instead of working for them, this is pay to win. I don't remember reading much about boosts back in TBC or WotLK, but sometime along the way, boosts for gold have become commonplace. When the token came into play, than this aspect has become pay to win.

I am not jealous. I have been able to pay for all things I need in the game with money I got by playing. I have used the Garrison with alts and also Legion missions, so I will soon buy the Brontosaur and call it a day. But you cannot say that WoW is 100% not pay to win, because there are things you can buy in this game with RL money via tokens. Of course, you cannot buy everything, but people also don't care about everything.

[Deleted]

It's not only that. It's the ability to buy gold and pay for boosts. For some people, participating in a raid is irrelevant, they just want to get their achievements or mounts and be done. For these people, the option to buy gold via tokens / real cash and then to buy the boost is pay to win. They only need to find a group which will sell them the kill and loot.

Some things in this game are not continually, but one time events. If you can buy these with real money via token converted to gold instead of working for them, this is pay to win. I don't remember reading much about boosts back in TBC or WotLK, but sometime along the way, boosts for gold have become commonplace. When the token came into play, than this aspect has become pay to win.

I am not jealous. I have been able to pay for all things I need in the game with money I got by playing. I have used the Garrison with alts and also Legion missions, so I will soon buy the Brontosaur and call it a day. But you cannot say that WoW is 100% not pay to win, because there are things you can buy in this game with RL money via tokens. Of course, you cannot buy everything, but people also don't care about everything.

Buying a Boost for Raid or M+ isn't a P2W.

Having a title from a Myth Raid doesn't give you any advantage over other players, you are not stronger, nor more skilled.

"Bbbbut Myth Gear" same shit, doesn't makes you stronger than other and we have 14yeara of experience of people Uber geared sucking cocks in this game so....


This entire " p2w wow " fallacy is happening now due to the massive farming of boe, like at every exp start, and it literally means nothing since you can get 355 doing anything RN.

Next week people would be 355 with m+ and nobody would bathe an eye.