Your thoughts on Tinker class?

[Teriz]

Engineering is vastly different from tinker toolkit aside from bombs.

Engineering no longer provides turrets, land mines, or a mech you can fight inside.

Is this true?

If so, that's a very interesting development....

[Icoblablubb]

oh look a what if tinker thread 17498237149826512876525816

[Kithelle]

I'd be interested in trying it...I'd even be willing to play a Gnome and or Goblin for it.

[Ielenia]

Having a ranged auto-attack while having almost entirely melee-centric abilities isn't equal efficiency.

And it still begs the question: why have a ranged auto-attack at all if it's a melee-centric class? Not to mention that it's not really unique to that since warriors and rogues can basically do the same thing.

The theme and the associated thematic abilities make it different.

"Themes" do not make abilities "unique". A two-second cast direct damage ability that leaves a dot is no different than a two-second cast direct damage ability that leaves a dot just because the first is drawn like a magic fireball, the other drawn like a tech rocket.

For 3 seconds. How long does DH stay in the air while gliding?

Irrelevant. That's three seconds of unrestricted flight that you can go ANYWHERE, including upwards. DH glide is just a mage's slowfall ability, with the ability to steer left and right as you float downwards.

They're not permanent robots. They explode after a certain amount of time, and the factory itself will expire after a set amount of time.

You really don't think that swarming the opponents with minions can

Technically, but the ability transforms the secondary form into another, completely different form. If the Demon Hunter started off as a normal elf, then a demon hunter, then transformed into a demon, that would be similar to what I'm talking about.

They do. They go from elf, to demon. Completely different forms. Also, shamans. Go from whatever base race, into an ascendant. Completely different forms. And, again, why "tertiary forms". You already have your "base form" which is your "mech". And, no, you're not going to pull a "D.Va" and have your character "escape the mech" before it explodes. Especially if you're a tank.

I've already explained this. I also explained it in my class write up.

Yeah. And your explanations are nonsensical and either wouldn't work with the current engine's combat mechanics, but it'd also make the class a nightmare to properly balance to make sure all ""weapon sets"" are equally balanced.

Actually they would keep the stats and they can get weapon enchants.

Enchant an empty gear slot? How does that work?

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the actual tweet:

https://twitter.com/cm_zarhym/status/420667313461792768

@CM_Zarhym
7 Jan 2014
More
@Jp3970 I mean, there's potential for any class when you put it that way. But we have no plans for Demon Hunter.

Again: brevity. Back in 2014 Twitter still had a limit of 140 characters. Writing the entire thing would be too long for the character limit.

- - - Updated - - -

Engineering is vastly different from tinker toolkit aside from bombs.

Engineering no longer provides turrets, land mines, or a mech you can fight inside.

False. Engineering still provides all of those.

[Teriz]

And it still begs the question: why have a ranged auto-attack at all if it's a melee-centric class? Not to mention that it's not really unique to that since warriors and rogues can basically do the same thing.

Actually there's a chance that the class would actually be physical-ranged and not melee-centric.

"Themes" do not make abilities "unique". A two-second cast direct damage ability that leaves a dot is no different than a two-second cast direct damage ability that leaves a dot just because the first is drawn like a magic fireball, the other drawn like a tech rocket.

I said different, not unique.

Irrelevant. That's three seconds of unrestricted flight that you can go ANYWHERE, including upwards. DH glide is just a mage's slowfall ability, with the ability to steer left and right as you float downwards.

Please explain how a rocket boost for 3 seconds is OP.

You really don't think that swarming the opponents with minions can

Can what?

They do. They go from elf, to demon. Completely different forms. Also, shamans. Go from whatever base race, into an ascendant. Completely different forms. And, again, why "tertiary forms". You already have your "base form" which is your "mech". And, no, you're not going to pull a "D.Va" and have your character "escape the mech" before it explodes. Especially if you're a tank.

No, the base form is the pilot. The secondary form is the mech. The tertiary form would be the Siegebreaker tank. I see no issue with having a Self Destruct ability for all three specs. You probably wouldn't use it while tanking, but it could be quite handy while leveling, especially since it launches you away from the explosion.

Yeah. And your explanations are nonsensical and either wouldn't work with the current engine's combat mechanics, but it'd also make the class a nightmare to properly balance to make sure all ""weapon sets"" are equally balanced.

How would it not work with the current combat mechanics when a few classes already have enhanced abilities that override standard abilities when "powered up"?

Enchant an empty gear slot? How does that work?

The weapon will still take up the gear slot, and you can slot in any enchantments that you have. It's no different than WW Monks who when they equip Swords just become stat sticks, and the stats from those weapons are translated into abilities.

[korijenkins]

I could honestly see this being the next class they add.

I don't really know of any other viable options.

People will mention necromancers and dark rangers, but death knights and hunters already fulfill that fantasy to a degree.

If they are added I can see them filling the role of tank, ranged dps and melee dps. I really can't envision how a healer role could work for the tinker. I agree with this class being exclusive to goblin and gnomes though, it makes the most sense.

By that logic, engineers fulfill the tinker fantasy.

I hope DH is the last class they bother with. The game is massively unbalanced as it is, an 11th class made it harder, a 12th even harder, and a 13th would just make it impossible.

[Thimagryn]

By that logic, engineers fulfill the tinker fantasy.

I hope DH is the last class they bother with. The game is massively unbalanced as it is, an 11th class made it harder, a 12th even harder, and a 13th would just make it impossible.

People keep saying this as though one day the game will actually be balanced. The constant flux is actually what keeps people invested in each update.

[Ielenia]

Actually there's a chance that the class would actually be physical-ranged and not melee-centric.

Then, a ranged class, not a tank class.

I said different, not unique.

Still don't make it different. A two-second cast direct damage ability that leaves a dot is no different than a two-second cast direct damage ability that leaves a dot just because the first is drawn like a magic fireball, the other drawn like a tech rocket.

Please explain how a rocket boost for 3 seconds is OP.

I just did.

No, the base form is the pilot.

No. You're not getting a "D.Va" class. Not to mention it's completely detrimental to how the combat mechanics work. A normal tank would die if their health reaches zero, but can immediately be battle-rez'ed. Tinker health reaches zero, mech gets destroyed, and now there is a useless malformed midget running around doing nothing that a tank should do. And the healers can't resurrect the tinker, because the tinker is not dead, so the group has to bend themselves backward with just one tank.

How would it not work with the current combat mechanics when a few classes already have enhanced abilities that override standard abilities when "powered up"?

Except you're not only wanting abilities to drastically change, (unlike the aforementioned examples) but also have several sets ability set changes.

[Teriz]

Then, a ranged class, not a tank class.

Both actually.

Still don't make it different. A two-second cast direct damage ability that leaves a dot is no different than a two-second cast direct damage ability that leaves a dot just because the first is drawn like a magic fireball, the other drawn like a tech rocket.

The fact that its a rocket instead of a fireball is different.

I just did.

No you didn't.

No. You're not getting a "D.Va" class. Not to mention it's completely detrimental to how the combat mechanics work. A normal tank would die if their health reaches zero, but can immediately be battle-rez'ed. Tinker health reaches zero, mech gets destroyed, and now there is a useless malformed midget running around doing nothing that a tank should do. And the healers can't resurrect the tinker, because the tinker is not dead, so the group has to bend themselves backward with just one tank.

Which means that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to perform self destruct while tanking during a raid. Leveling on the other hand....

Except you're not only wanting abilities to drastically change, (unlike the aforementioned examples) but also have several sets ability set changes.

I'm pretty sure I only mentioned 2 sets of abilities. One set was 3 abilities.

[Strakha]

my thoughts are it is a dumb idea and we need more melee classes.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Does being apart of the group that spams the same dumb fucking idea every month and is so retarded that for the past 8 years have talked about how it for sure is going to be the next class added, make you feel better about yourself?

Once again you go back to being insecure and full of hate. I see just as many threads of Necromancers, Dark Rangers or even Demon Hunters, before they were playable. There's no "group", people are just offering suggestions and discussing possibilities.
If you can't handle that then maybe forums aren't for you.

[Ordaine]

People will mention necromancers and dark rangers, but death knights and hunters already fulfill that fantasy to a degree.
.

Honestly I just want a ranged dk caster spec based on the bone necro from d2. That would 100% fulfill my needs.
There is no plate caster dps in-game and blood only has a singular spell revolving around bones - bone shield.

Also dark rangers... pretty pointless of a spec. People keep trying to work that into demon hunters and such, and no matter how you spin it, it just doesn't fit.

Now that aside... Being that I've been an engineer since wrath, I'd love a spec based around it.
The question is how to evolve it in such a way to where you aren't throwing bombs like a survival hunter or just micro managing a turrent?

[Ielenia]

Both actually.

Not at the same time. A tank's playstyle would be exclusively melee. Just like every other tank.

The fact that its a rocket instead of a fireball is different.

Not mechanically, which is what affect playstyles. How an ability looks has zero impacts on how a class plays.

No you didn't.

So you're openly admitting you don't read the posts you're responding to. Here is what I wrote:

That's three seconds of unrestricted flight that you can go ANYWHERE, including upwards. DH glide is just a mage's slowfall ability, with the ability to steer left and right as you float downwards.

Which means that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to perform self destruct while tanking during a raid. Leveling on the other hand....

I'm talking about your idea that the mech gets destroyed, the pilot jumps out, like Gazlowe does in island explorations.

[Teriz]

Not at the same time. A tank's playstyle would be exclusively melee. Just like every other tank.

Except there's multiple tanks with ranged abilities. Typically those abilities are used for pulling or kiting. How can you say that they're exclusively melee?

Not mechanically, which is what affect playstyles. How an ability looks has zero impacts on how a class plays.

That would depend on the actual ability. For example, what if it was a shrapnel missile that caused bleed damage to the target after it exploded? I'm not aware of any fire spell that causes the target to bleed. Why? Because bleeding isn't associated with fire, but several status effects can be associated with technology.

So you're openly admitting you don't read the posts you're responding to. Here is what I wrote:

Yeah I read it, and I'm struggling to see how that is overpowered in any sense. You can't go "anywhere" in 3 seconds.

I'm talking about your idea that the mech gets destroyed, the pilot jumps out, like Gazlowe does in island explorations.

Yes, outside of tanking what's the problem? I can think of several applications for it that would make it a great ability to have.

[Strippling]

The question is how to evolve it in such a way to where you aren't throwing bombs like a survival hunter or just micro managing a turrent?

Yea that's a tricky one, and I guess ultimately up to Blizz to work that out. But here are some concepts off the top of my head:

Class: Tinker

Races: (A) Gnome, DI Dwarf, Draenei, Worgen
(H) Goblin, Mag'har Orc, Blood Elf, Undead

Description: Masters of mechanical mayhem, they love to tinker with explosives, elixirs, and all manner of hazardous and protective gadgets. They can take control of an area by placing turrets, support their allies with alchemic weaponry, equip mechanical battle suits to battle foes at close quarters, or lay waste to foes with a wide array of mines, bombs, and grenades. (thanks GW2 lol)

Armor Type: Mail

Weapons: 1h+2h Maces, 1h swords, daggers, guns, offhand

Specs: Scrapper (Tank) - Scrappers specialize in harnessing protective equipment. They use mechanical battle suits to fight foes in close quarters. A scrappers battle suit aesthetic will vary depending on the race (draenei would have a crystal type suit, goblins would have a goblin junkrat type suit, etc..). Scrappers use a "fuel" resource which acts similar to mana (ie depletes over time and fuel consumption must be monitored in an encounter) and an "overdrive" resource which builds up over the duration of a fight and can be used for special abilities.

Combat (DPS) - Combat tinkers are technological masterminds. They employ turrets, grenades, a variety of other impressive devices, and concoctions to overcome their enemies. Combat tinkers can use their moves in combo for added effects (ie a combat tinker could net a foe to immobilize them and then apply an electrical shock to the net for damage). Combat tinkers resource is known as an "equipment belt". This belt has a series of tools equipped which can be used singularly or in combo to use certain abilites (similar to the original DK rune system). Once tools are used they have a set CD time before replenishing. Combat tinkers talent points can focus on specializing in explosives or inventions, both of which have differing benefits (ie. burst or sustained combat playstyle).

Alchemist (Heal) - Alchemists are alchemical masterminds. They employ med kits and elixirs to support their allies. Med kits can be used for heals over time and for fortifying allies before an enemy encounter. Elixirs can be thrown at allies during combat for bursts of heals and/or to provide a benefit (ie buff) to allies. Alchemists use a mana resource for elixirs and also have a "med kit" resource. The med kit resource can only be used in close quarters while elixirs can be thrown at a distance. The closer the elixir lands to an ally the greater the heal or buff, the further it lands from an ally the lesser it heals or buffs. Some elixirs could be AoE and others single target for a more substantial benefit.

Just my 2 cents worth, feel free to provide constructive feedback.

[Ielenia]

Except there's multiple tanks with ranged abilities. Typically those abilities are used for pulling or kiting. How can you say that they're exclusively melee?

I have never said the classes are "exclusively melee", and I dare you to point out where I said that. I only said that their playstyle is exclusively melee. As in, the ability rotation you use while tanking or DPS'ing.

That would depend on the actual ability. For example, what if it was a shrapnel missile that caused bleed damage to the target after it exploded? I'm not aware of any fire spell that causes the target to bleed. Why? Because bleeding isn't associated with fire, but several status effects can be associated with technology.

It's still just a "cast-timed direct damage ability that leaves a damage-over-time effect". Mechanically the same as a fireball.

Yeah I read it, and I'm struggling to see how that is overpowered in any sense. You can't go "anywhere" in 3 seconds.

... You know full well what I meant. Why do you have to play ignorant? By "anywhere you want" it means you can move in any direction in mid-air as you wish. For three seconds.

Yes, outside of tanking what's the problem? I can think of several applications for it that would make it a great ability to have.

Why? Why make an ability intentionally make you several orders of magnitude weaker, both in resilience and damage, just to do a one-time heavy damage? That whole damage thing would be completely off-set by the time you remain a puny, nigh-useless mech-less pilot.

[Stormspellz]

they have a shit show of the classes now, 2/3 more specs will just make it that much worse.

[Bryci]

This topic pops up every single week why people don't use search?

[Alanar]

The Void is equivalent to the Light in terms of presence in the WoW universe and the Light has one whole class and a half to represent it. Why should the Void only have one dysfunctional spec that is strictly a caster?

Why should it have a equivalent? Its already represented in 1 full class called priest where both holy and shadow are represented.
Dark ranger or shadow hunter is different cake which we havent seen yet.. ye they choose it to be a caster.. I mean we even have void elves now who represent exacrly what your saying... and dont forget lightforged..

[Ordaine]

Yea that's a tricky one, and I guess ultimately up to Blizz to work that out. But here are some concepts off the top of my head:

Class: Tinker

Races: (A) Gnome, DI Dwarf, Draenei, Worgen
(H) Goblin, Mag'har Orc, Blood Elf, Undead

Description: Masters of mechanical mayhem, they love to tinker with explosives, elixirs, and all manner of hazardous and protective gadgets. They can take control of an area by placing turrets, support their allies with alchemic weaponry, equip mechanical battle suits to battle foes at close quarters, or lay waste to foes with a wide array of mines, bombs, and grenades. (thanks GW2 lol)

Armor Type: Mail

Weapons: 1h+2h Maces, 1h swords, daggers, guns, offhand

Specs: Scrapper (Tank) - Scrappers specialize in harnessing protective equipment. They use mechanical battle suits to fight foes in close quarters. A scrappers battle suit aesthetic will vary depending on the race (draenei would have a crystal type suit, goblins would have a goblin junkrat type suit, etc..). Scrappers use a "fuel" resource which acts similar to mana (ie depletes over time and fuel consumption must be monitored in an encounter) and an "overdrive" resource which builds up over the duration of a fight and can be used for special abilities.

Combat (DPS) - Combat tinkers are technological masterminds. They employ turrets, grenades, a variety of other impressive devices, and concoctions to overcome their enemies. Combat tinkers can use their moves in combo for added effects (ie a combat tinker could net a foe to immobilize them and then apply an electrical shock to the net for damage). Combat tinkers resource is known as an "equipment belt". This belt has a series of tools equipped which can be used singularly or in combo to use certain abilites (similar to the original DK rune system). Once tools are used they have a set CD time before replenishing. Combat tinkers talent points can focus on specializing in explosives or inventions, both of which have differing benefits (ie. burst or sustained combat playstyle).

Alchemist (Heal) - Alchemists are alchemical masterminds. They employ med kits and elixirs to support their allies. Med kits can be used for heals over time and for fortifying allies before an enemy encounter. Elixirs can be thrown at allies during combat for bursts of heals and/or to provide a benefit (ie buff) to allies. Alchemists use a mana resource for elixirs and also have a "med kit" resource. The med kit resource can only be used in close quarters while elixirs can be thrown at a distance. The closer the elixir lands to an ally the greater the heal or buff, the further it lands from an ally the lesser it heals or buffs. Some elixirs could be AoE and others single target for a more substantial benefit.

Just my 2 cents worth, feel free to provide constructive feedback.

The thoughts are good, however in practical use, you can't equip a suit mid combat or focus on building while you are fighting.
For suits, I could see something similar to demon hunters meta where you pop on a quick suit or something and it lasts x amount of seconds like shield block.
But the general applications for tanking don't really work with the tinker ideology unless you put it more in the direction of a demonology warlock and you control robots that do the tanking.
But then you aren't really different from a hunter at that point.

Mail armor type doesn't make sense for a tinker type character honestly. Especially one that is making and controlling robots. You aren't going to make robots out of a mail type armor.

The only two specs that I see being plausible (and logical) are the healing and dps ones.
Controlling turrents and potions seems well within the constraints of what the spec should and could be without being ridiculous.

For tanking to work smoothly and functionally and actually make sense, it would have to be pretty close to a warrior type character.
Plate type armor, summons an energy barrier that absorbs incoming damage for an active mitigation. Mimic mekkatorque's abilities from the gnome intro questline.