Your thoughts on Tinker class?

[Zyrinx]

Zero interest. Negative interest.

Bards, OTOH.....

[MatthiasLehner]

Honestly, I always loved the idea and the robotic, mechanical themed classes should be released sooner or later, because it really is THE new archetype that can be filled.

Just like how Heroes of the Storm's Illidan influenced the DH we've gotten in Legion, I think a lot of new play mechanics can be implemented: Look at how different some support characters can be in HOTS (Ana, Deckard, Abathur... etc)

I can easily imagine a tank spec with mech-suit, potion throwing and injecting + shit load of mech buff healer, and bomb throwing + lazer shooting + landmining mail wearing dps...

Also the other exciting part is that I believe this class can be exclusive to certain races that aren't the most popular:
- Gnomes, Dwarves, Draenei, Lightforged Draenei, Dark Iron Dwarves
- Goblins, Orcs, Forsaken, Mag'har Orcs

Yep, I'm trying real hard to avoid Humans and Elves, but you know.

[AngerFork]

Tinkers, eh? Sounds interesting. I'll respond to your thoughts first, then provide a few of my own.

I think introducing Tinkers as the next playable class would be a brilliant idea. A few reasons why:
- would potentially provide a new and interesting style of play (away from the standard cast spell or hit with sword damage notion).

This really would largely come down to the implemention style Blizz opted to use for a Tinker. If the Tinker is more like Torbjorn (setting up turrets and the like while fighting in a mech), it could really add a great new style of gameplay. If on the other hand the Tinker simply fought using their robot as a melee puncher, it would really be more of an obstacle to seeing stack points and mailboxes than anything else.

- they would potentially be a ranged class with possible dps/healing/utility specs. Adding range would change things up a bit.. given that DK, Monk and DH are all melee. The thought of tinker being heavily utility based sounds awesome to me.

I could actually see them taking on all four potential roles. Melee, you've got the puncher listed above. Ranged, you've got missiles and potentially things like hunter-style traps to use. Tank...a giant robot can definitely take some hits and make some shields. Heals, you could easily do things with medic packs or AoE heal bombs and whatnot.

This would also be the first non-Vanilla class with a Ranged spec if they went that way, something that would be nice to have.

- Similar to DH, tinker could be exclusive to gnomes and goblins. The beauty of this is that it would provide an opportunity to give some much needed love and attention to gnomes and goblins, both of which (especially gnomes) have received very little development.

This would be a complete deal killer for me, making them specific to gnomes/goblins. We've already seen plenty of other races with interests in Engineering...Artificer Romuul for the Draenei is a perfect example of this. Plus, anyone can really be an Engineer at this point.

Off hand, I actually see 6 great fits for both the Alliance (Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Draenei, Dark Iron, Lightforged) and the Horde (Orc, Undead, Blood Elf, Goblin, Nightborne, Mag'har) based on what we have so far. You could even take this a step further and make each race get their own mech style, similar to how Shamans have race-specific totems or Druids have race-specific forms. Nightborne could be something like you'd see in Suramar, Dark Irons could be similar to the constructs in BRD, etc.

- and lastly, I want to play a goblin junkrat! I'm not sure if the junkrat should be a permanent feature or rather something like a bottom talent tree trait?

I'd say tree trait here, and I'd actually go even further with the traits. Add this in as like a bonus set of abilities similar to how Druids do their Affinity talents, but as a trade off you don't get the mech.

Now then, other thoughts I have.

One of the things that I keep coming back to on this whole Tinker idea is the idea of the mech itself. If you have it as an always on mech that you can kill and eject from (a la D.Va), you run into lots of weird issues with things like one shot raid mechanics where the Tinker can just always soak them and bring out another mech. You also have issues with things like mailboxes, doorways, and quest NPCs (think it's bad now with mounts in the way? Imagine if that's a class ability). And that's not even getting into the mount issues (do they ride their mechs while mounted? You'd think not, but then does that make for weird gameplay to always have to resummon your mech post flight?). You would almost need to have the mech summonable or as a clickable buff (Moonkin Form, etc), but still something that shares your same life pool to make it work properly.

The Engineering profession really isn't too much of a problem here. Just make it so that Tinkers do more combat-type stuff and engineers still get the cool gizmos/gadgets. Blingtron, Jeeves, cloak glider enhancements, stuff like that.

The one remaining question here is what level does it start at? As much as it isn't what I prefer, level 1 might actually be the right answer here. Make accessing them early a pre-order bonus (e.g. Allied Races before BfA), keep those sub numbers up for a little while longer, let people play with the balance as they level. Mix this in with one last Allied Race, ensure all four roles are open to Tinkers, you've got a great project to keep people engaged while building hype for the next expansion.

[Ielenia]

Taunts have cooldowns, auto-attacks don't.

You're not pulling a new group of mobs ever 1.5-3.0 seconds (which is the usual swing timer depending if it's a one-hander or two-hander). And if you are, chances are, while leveling, you'll die. Horribly. By being overwhelmed by mobs. And if you're in a dungeon or raid? You'll wipe. Horribly. Because auto-attacks don't generate near enough threat to keep them from the rest of the group.

Okay, but the abilities aren't the same. For example, a Shrapnel Missile could do both Fire damage and Physical damage with the Bleed DoTs. A standard fire spell can't do that.

Again, doesn't matter. Take the mage spell "meteor", for example: it could easily deal, for example, physical damage on impact and then fire damage as damage-over-time. Also, a missile to the face would deal much more fire damage as damage-over-time than bleeding. The shrapnel would basically be 'small potatoes' compared to the fire damage.

Anything new or outside the current realm of WoW seems OP. Take Touch of Death of example; On paper it sounds OP as hell. It even sounded OP in beta, however once we started using it, it wasn't OP at all. Rocket Boost would be in the same boat.

Things above the normal balance of power of WoW is OP. And the original Touch of Death was not OP. It was a long cooldown that deals massive damage, true, but: a) only targets one mob; b) it took eight seconds AFTER casting it to deal its damage; and c) could not be used on players.

Compared to the possible cooldown that something like Self Destruct would have, it could be considered rotational.

... Yes. An ability that deals massive damage in an area of effect and disengages you from melee combat would also have such a short cooldown to be used in a rotation.

You really have no concept at all of what "over-powered" means, do you?

You can't summon them inside either, and they disappear in a puff of smoke(1). Point is, not everything in the game needs to have real-world logic applied to it(2). You know this, but you're trying to be obtuse.

(1) Not even remotely relevant to the issue at hand.
(2) It's not about "everything needing real-world logic", but it's about consistency.

[MrWolly]

I love my goblins, so this would be welcome in my opinion.

[SynDethroc]

I would definitely play a Tinker. I think they would make for a fun class with a focus on gadgets, guns, explosives, and possibly mechs and turrets. Only other class that I would love to see added to the game would be a Bard. Oh, how I would LOVE to play a Bard...

[Scooby Dooby Doo]

Goblin tinker would be the only class/race combo that would make me consider switching mains. I hope it will happen at some point.

[Varlak]

And you just give this class 1 spec and then colect the river of cry froms dude who claim their life isn't complete because they don,t have 3 spec.

[Ravingmad]

I would like to see tinkers. I would like to see a ranged spec (using turrets or missiles. A bit like a beastmaster-ish gameplay; using ranged attack to boost your turrets damage and such), healing (via healbots, litteraly. with healing beams, healing turrets, etc) and either a tank (too much tank already?) or a melee spec, comparable to the current DH, using ''steam'' as a ressource (either like rage, or like energy). Able to dash or leap. With a nice Stomping AoE (Earthquake 2.0).


But the races available should not be limited to only Gobs and Gnomes. So that each race have their own unique skin like druids.

[Teriz]

You're not pulling a new group of mobs ever 1.5-3.0 seconds (which is the usual swing timer depending if it's a one-hander or two-hander). And if you are, chances are, while leveling, you'll die. Horribly. By being overwhelmed by mobs. And if you're in a dungeon or raid? You'll wipe. Horribly. Because auto-attacks don't generate near enough threat to keep them from the rest of the group.

Really? I pulled mobs with my Brewmaster tank with Chi Wave all the time, and I never wiped or got overwhelmed by mobs. Also if you need to peel a mob off your teammate, hitting them with a few shots while you close the distance can only be considered helpful.

Again, doesn't matter. Take the mage spell "meteor", for example: it could easily deal, for example, physical damage on impact and then fire damage as damage-over-time. Also, a missile to the face would deal much more fire damage as damage-over-time than bleeding. The shrapnel would basically be 'small potatoes' compared to the fire damage.

And now we're moving goalposts....

Things above the normal balance of power of WoW is OP. And the original Touch of Death was not OP. It was a long cooldown that deals massive damage, true, but: a) only targets one mob; b) it took eight seconds AFTER casting it to deal its damage; and c) could not be used on players.

So how is a movement ability that lasts 3 seconds above the normal balance of power in WoW?

... Yes. An ability that deals massive damage in an area of effect and disengages you from melee combat would also have such a short cooldown to be used in a rotation.

If you look at my class concept, Self Destruct has a 6 minute CD. How can you use that in a rotation?

You really have no concept at all of what "over-powered" means, do you?

I do. I also have a concept of when someone is purposely being obtuse because they don't want to admit when they're wrong. Like you were when you tried to argue that a Tinker concept would offer anything new to the game. Anything already established in the game is "just like other abilities" and anything not established in the game is "overpowered".

Your game is tired. Please try to come up with a new one.

[Toisha]

I could honestly see this being the next class they add.

I don't really know of any other viable options.

People will mention necromancers and dark rangers, but death knights and hunters already fulfill that fantasy to a degree.

If they are added I can see them filling the role of tank, ranged dps and melee dps. I really can't envision how a healer role could work for the tinker. I agree with this class being exclusive to goblin and gnomes though, it makes the most sense.

This is about as silly of an argument as "But we have the profession Engineering that fulfills that fantasy to a degree."

Personally, I think the class idea is silly and nearly baseless except for a handful of Gnomes that kind of fit that idea. What the game needs is a mail armor class. A tinker would have to be plate or everyone would riot. Look at Gelbin and tell me he's wearing anything besides plate armor.

Necromancers COULD fit that armor niche if they design them right. Dark Rangers would have to be leather or they'd just be normal Hunters--we also need zero additional leather wearing classes currently.

[Scrysis]

I don't see this as the next spec, to be honest. The next xpac is likely either going to be old god/void lord related, or heavily undead. All of the new classes so far have been tied very heavily into the xpac theme: deathknights for Wrath, and Demonhunters for legion. If they pull a surprise out at us, like having a a pseudo-apocalypse being caused by a bunch of haywire titan constructs, then I could see a tinker class.

One of the other problems is that it overlaps too heavily theme-wise with the engineering profession. Classes are typically very easy to read, but having a tinker class might be mistaken for an engineer and vice versa.

[Varlak]

What the game needs is a mail armor class. A tinker would have to be plate or everyone would riot..

1) Since its all personal loot class armor balance is irrevelant
2) The tinker class as described here existe in so many MMO and on the top of my head they are all mail user and sometiems leather user so I don,t see why they would need to be plate.

[Teriz]

This is about as silly of an argument as "But we have the profession Engineering that fulfills that fantasy to a degree."

Personally, I think the class idea is silly and nearly baseless except for a handful of Gnomes that kind of fit that idea. What the game needs is a mail armor class. A tinker would have to be plate or everyone would riot. Look at Gelbin and tell me he's wearing anything besides plate armor.

Necromancers COULD fit that armor niche if they design them right. Dark Rangers would have to be leather or they'd just be normal Hunters--we also need zero additional leather wearing classes currently.

Not quite as silly, since Death Knights and Hunters are classes while Engineering is a profession that wouldn't be able to fulfill a class fantasy in any sense.

As for the Tinker being baseless; We have Mekkatorque, Gazlowe, Gallywix, Blackfuse, Razdunk, Noggenfogger, Thermaplugg and others who give the class quite a strong base within the game world.

Finally, just because Mekkatorque wears plate doesn't mean that the class would wear plate. Keep in mind that Thrall wore heavy (plate) armor in early WoW:



Yet Shaman wore leather and mail.

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One of the other problems is that it overlaps too heavily theme-wise with the engineering profession. Classes are typically very easy to read, but having a tinker class might be mistaken for an engineer and vice versa.

The theme of the Engineering profession is to create items for selling. The theme of the Tinker class would be a mechanical genius who uses the power of technology to protect their allies and destroy their enemies.

Not even remotely the same theme. While engineers are cobbling together screws and gears to make a pair of shoes, the Tinker is leading their party into battle piloting a heavily armed and armored warframe.

[AngerFork]

I don't see this as the next spec, to be honest. The next xpac is likely either going to be old god/void lord related, or heavily undead. All of the new classes so far have been tied very heavily into the xpac theme: deathknights for Wrath, and Demonhunters for legion. If they pull a surprise out at us, like having a a pseudo-apocalypse being caused by a bunch of haywire titan constructs, then I could see a tinker class.

One of the other problems is that it overlaps too heavily theme-wise with the engineering profession. Classes are typically very easy to read, but having a tinker class might be mistaken for an engineer and vice versa.

Agreed that new classes are always tied in with the expansion theme, but I'm not so sure that disqualifies Tinkers by any stretch. We have not yet seen Undermine in game. An expansion based within or using that would be a good way to add in the Tinker. Plus, there are plenty of ways to add that into central themes for each expansion type. A couple not-so-great examples off the top of my head:

- Azeroth is tangled in Old God corruption and we need to journey to her location within the center of the planet to save her. That brings in Undermine and the need for someone that can dig and dig further.
- The Dragon Aspects come back into play and Kalecgos goes completely Malygos on us, fighting against all forms of magic. Tinkers could well rise out of that as a way to fight back should the Ley Lines be locked down for whatever reason.
- Bolvar goes nuts at the top of ICC and starts reanimating the dead one after another. After our wars against the Legion and each other, both sides have been weakened to where the Scourge would steamroll them on their own. To even the odds, Goblins/Gnomes start building more machinery and mechs in order to take out the Scourge in greater numbers.

[Wyrt]

I don't like gnome or goblin technology so no.

I especially don't like the suggestion that a technology based class should be exclusive to gnomes and goblins either. Many other races have technology. If there's going to be a tech class it should have more races that can be it and more thematics to it than just gnome/goblin stuff.

[Varlak]

Not quite as silly, since Death Knights and Hunters are classes while Engineering is a profession that wouldn't be able to fulfill a class fantasy in any sense.

As for the Tinker being baseless; We have Mekkatorque, Gazlowe, Gallywix, Blackfuse, Razdunk, Noggenfogger, Thermaplugg and others who give the class quite a strong base within the game world.
.

I have never been a fan of "tinker" class but this is a genre that many player anjoy in many MMO and it is probably the class this game miss the most.

We have no turrent spawning class (shamans totem just have been gutted over the years).

This is the kind of class that you can easely give any role and it would fit the class fantasy. The only problem I,d see is to my humble opinion I see no race suiting this class beside Dwarf and Gnome for the Alliance and Goblin, for the Horde. I guess you could probably extend this to Human and Forsaken too but orc are barely able to craft anything that isn't made from trees.

[Deleted]

I don’t like tech classes and would rather engineering get better stuff.

I agree... I would not want to play the tinker class. It would be a massive waste of development time in my opinion. I would rather see them spend their development time on something like Dark Ranger, Necromancer, Warden, Shadow Hunter or whatever... Tinker would be at the bottom of my list.

[Teriz]

I have never been a fan of "tinker" class but this is a genre that many player anjoy in many MMO and it is probably the class this game miss the most.

We have no turrent spawning class (shamans totem just have been gutted over the years).

This is the kind of class that you can easely give any role and it would fit the class fantasy. The only problem I,d see is to my humble opinion I see no race suiting this class beside Dwarf and Gnome for the Alliance and Goblin, for the Horde. I guess you could probably extend this to Human and Forsaken too but orc are barely able to craft anything that isn't made from trees.

Honestly, all you need is Goblin and Gnome.

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I agree... I would not want to play the tinker class. It would be a massive waste of development time in my opinion. I would rather see them spend their development time on something like Dark Ranger, Necromancer, Warden, Shadow Hunter or whatever... Tinker would be at the bottom of my list.

You mean spend development time on variations of what we already have in the class lineup?

[Pinksocking]

blizzard if you're reading this

do it

i'd play one

take my $$$

(i've been playing gnomes since vanilla, this would be a dream come true)