[Megathread] Destiny

[Flaks]

It had it's last chance with CoO and Warmind mate.

But people will fall for Destiny 3.

Gone are the days when Bungie made a somewhat decent game sadly.

I bought the deluxe edition on launch so I got the expansion pass included. While CoO was undoubtedly lacking, warming was a breath of fresh air with the collectibles and exotic quests.

The thing that’s making me hesitate to get forsaken is that somehow bungie is becoming even greedier by adding an annual pass for an expansion whereas this time in d1’s lifecycle we had free content throughout the whole year for taken king.

[Halicia]

I facepalm at people like you.

"The end game sucks" "there's nothing to do at max level" "this game blows"

That's because you're playing it like a fucking MMO.....

Or I should say, YOU are the reason you aren't having any fun, because you're looking at it like you would WoW.

I'll agree with that, but the one caveat...

They "designed" it to be played like an MMO.

I don't think the "raids" really contributed to the game at all. If anything, it only helped feed the belief that you need to rush through the game to unlock the 'real game'.

[Coldkil]

Both of them were small with minor changes, forsaken is first big xpack with major changes.

Point is people already spent loads of money for a game that's barely comparable to the first game. Everyone that played D1 just agrees that Bungie made only steps backwards with nonsensical loot/gear systems to promote the in-game lootboxes. Saying CoO is underwhelming is a compliment, while Warmind is decent (but still plagued by awful systems).

They can do the best expansion ever but the damage is done. They are the company that managed to fail a project that should have been for the most part a copy/paste of the first game after the two expansions, but they decided to gut it to do the usual "we know, we listen, but all stuff so you acn get the complete experience" so a standard game magically becomes game+2 expacks and you pay triple the price.

Most D2 players just don't trust Bungie anymore. They failed to deliver and very few people will buy Forsaken, not because it's bad per se but because they don't want to give money to a studio that just missed every shot so far.

Personally, i'll probably end buying the "certain to come in the future" complete/goty/whatever edition that costs 1/10th of the original price for everything. Because that's how much i think it's worth and i have spent already too much money on it due to hype.

[Nutri]

I'm eager to try Forsaken. But then I need to buy SP1+Forsaken to start with. So thats €60,-. And then if I'd want to experience full Forsaken that'd be another €30.
This has been talked about to death already but Bungie is not even trying to make me pickup the game again with these price models.

If Forsaken was €40 and included SP1 + all what would be in SP2 then I'd probably say fuck it I'll give it a go.

Aside from that I'm very happy to see new games embracing the games as a service model offering free dlc (anthem, Division 2) and then have the cosmetics store as additional income. I only wish Destiny 2 had done the same thing.

[ryanmahaffe]

I wanted to try Forsaken pretty badly but... nah. Seems like work I don't want to put in to catch up and money I don't want to spend to even play. Heck I see no reason to play this on any platform besides maybe Xbox

Ps4 gamers have a better product with Spidahman and PC gamers had MHW last month and Battle For Azeroth content today.

I will happily experience Forsaken like I did the last two updates... on Twitch

[grandpab]

The thing that’s making me hesitate to get forsaken is that somehow bungie is becoming even greedier by adding an annual pass for an expansion whereas this time in d1’s lifecycle we had free content throughout the whole year for taken king.

I added it all up the other day. In D1 if you bought the base game and every DLC you paid $165-170 over 3 years. For D2 if you've done the same you've now paid the same price except we're only 1 year into the game, but this content will last until about fall next year when they likely release another DLC + annual pass. It's looking like D2 will be $75 more expensive after its entire cycle and you had to deal with a year of bullshit, bad content, and lies from Bungie.

They way they're forcing you to buy all previous DLC in order to play the new DLC is also bullshit.

If they wanted more players to come back they needed to gain some good will from the players that aren't happy with them. The annual pass should have been free and the content from it should have been the extra content Bungie said we're going to get from Eververse that we never got.

I do want to play it, but I'm gonna vote with my wallet this time and say fuck you to Bungie. I've always been a day 1 buyer for all the content they've released up until now too.

[Endus]

I facepalm at people like you.

"The end game sucks" "there's nothing to do at max level" "this game blows"

That's because you're playing it like a fucking MMO. Games like WoW have ruined the way people expect games to go. I stayed away from Destiny 2 for the longest time because people kept saying how absolutely terrible it was. I finally got it from the Humble Bundle Monthly and decided to give it a shot. What I found was an absolutely wonderful game. The story was really cool to follow, though I felt it was sort of short. And just running around doing the events, mindlessly killing the baddies I found to be a lot of fun. The only reason I stopped playing was in anticipation for the expansion. But then I realized that all people are complaining about is QQ da endgame suxors, so all they're focusing on is the end game.

Everyone like you just skips through the ACTUAL game, and expects there to be a plethora and constant flow of content once they get to the end game. And when there isn't, you voice your opinion on every media at the loudest volume you can. So companies like Bungie start producing garbage games, and you complain even louder. YOU are the reason Destiny 2 isn't any fun. Or I should say, YOU are the reason you aren't having any fun, because you're looking at it like you would WoW.

TBH, this is also a design/marketing issue.

I've been trying to find a game with long-term appeal which combines;

1> Exploration-based gameplay
2> FPS-type mechanics
3> RPG development
4> Horizontal progression

That white whale's been on my radar for years. And games like Destiny 2 and The Division failed to meet it for basically the same reason that WoW stopped; there's two parts to MMOs. There's the "leveling up", which is included largely as a barrier to entry to the endgame, but is the part of the above games I've enjoyed the most. And then there's the endgame, which is what the games are supposed to be all about, where you farm the same content over and over until it becomes mechanically rote, trying to get incremental improvements to your gear stats. And that shit bores me to tears. I like playing a dungeon or raid until I understand it. Once I do, I'm done. It's a chore, not something that's "fun" any more, for me. And they're so artificially restricted in scope that you run out of different things to do; you always want to be repeating the newest content, and ONLY the newest content.

I'm sure that's great fun to some people. I got a lot of mileage out of WoW, back in the day, by getting into the theorycrafting community, and by working as guild leadership for my guild (not the big boss, but 2IC and such). But the latter got frustrating, when I'm able to A> stay out of the fire, B> track timers for the entire raid, not just myself, C> make callouts to the rest of my raid members so they get out of the fire, and D> keep my own performance high enough I semi-regularly hit the top 200 on log sites, and was almost always top 5% for my spec. So when I see most of my raid so challenged by A and D that it obliges me to engage in B and C, on top of managing my own shit, it got frustrating. Especially when I could add "DJ music for the raid while juggling requests" and "tweak my own rotation trying to experiment and test stuff for theorycrafting". In the end, I figured out that I was interested in everything BUT the actual game.

At this point, I'm tentatively hopeful for Fallout 76 to scratch the itch I described. They aren't really setting up any "endgame", and that's fine to me. Give me more places to explore and lore to discover, rather than a new raid to grind over and over for the next 3 months until I claw my eyes out. Does that mean the game will "end"? Sure. But MMOs end, too. They only survive because they slap on a new "end" every few months to keep the rats in the Skinner box a little longer.

[Halicia]

TBH, this is also a design/marketing issue.

I've been trying to find a game with long-term appeal which combines;

1> Exploration-based gameplay
2> FPS-type mechanics
3> RPG development
4> Horizontal progression

#1. I haven't seen a game that's gotten this right. The answer has to be in combining procedural generation for "wilderness", with pre-generation for landmarks and cities/etc. Discovery is a large part of exploration's appeal which gets overlooked.

#2 & 3. Don't tell me why, but every "sandbox shooter" like Farcry, etc... with "RPG talents".... fails hard at making them interesting. Whenever I see a shooter that has any interesting character options, its because it was designed as an RPG with shooter elements, and not the other way around. I'm not saying either is superior, I just think they aren't being developed properly. "+5 shotgun ammo" is not an interesting choice. Its a mandatory one if you use shotguns, and a useless one if you don't.

#4 This is a discussion all its own, and what might work as a solution for a MP game, is completely awful in a SP one. My only real comment that I've discussed in great detail a few years back, is to shift progression more towards goals and accomplishments and less towards "power". If your game emphasizes exploration and discovery, then "unlocking new areas" is more rewarding to the player than actually getting more powerful. (ideally)

[Endus]

#1. I haven't seen a game that's gotten this right. The answer has to be in combining procedural generation for "wilderness", with pre-generation for landmarks and cities/etc. Discovery is a large part of exploration's appeal which gets overlooked.

I'm content with a complex pre-generated landscape to explore. Fallout 4, for all its faults, is a fantastic example. There's shit crammed in almost every corner of that map. The problem with procedural generation is that the content, necessarily, is boring and doesn't tell a good story. See No Man's Sky and its planets. It's a useful thing for variation within that hand-crafted lore, but doesn't replace it.

Where traditional MMOs focus on giving players a new raid/mechanics/etc, I'd prefer a game which added new expansions to the map, new lore to discover, new horizontal progression options, and so forth. Some MMOs have made efforts in that direction, and a lot of single-player RPGs do as well, without the online component and with a firm "we're done" endpoint determined. I'm looking for a fine line between.

#2 & 3. Don't tell me why, but every "sandbox shooter" like Farcry, etc... with "RPG talents".... fails hard at making them interesting. Whenever I see a shooter that has any interesting character options, its because it was designed as an RPG with shooter elements, and not the other way around. I'm not saying either is superior, I just think they aren't being developed properly. "+5 shotgun ammo" is not an interesting choice. Its a mandatory one if you use shotguns, and a useless one if you don't.

Most of those "sandbox shooters" expect you to fill out that progression tree completely by endgame, so it's more about prioritization than choosing a "class/spec". It's a glorified leveling system and adds some choice in how you progress early on. That's not "bad", it's just doing a different "thing".

Also, a lot of RPG "choices" in character development are like that; do you want to play a sneaky character? Then improvements to stealth are mandatory, and useless if you don't.

Honestly, Fallout 76 does some interesting stuff, there; there will be mutations and such you can get which have benefits and drawbacks, over and above the normal progression system. So while you might like the benefit, it's not without consequence, at least.

#4 This is a discussion all its own, and what might work as a solution for a MP game, is completely awful in a SP one. My only real comment that I've discussed in great detail a few years back, is to shift progression more towards goals and accomplishments and less towards "power". If your game emphasizes exploration and discovery, then "unlocking new areas" is more rewarding to the player than actually getting more powerful. (ideally)

Well, that's part of what a good horizontal progression system entails. You're fine-tuning as you go, getting closer to your ideal, with the ability to change tacks completely if you choose to.

I've played some game sometime where some progression options were locked behind certain achievements, like if you wanted to improve headshot damage, you had to get 10 headshots or something, so it was intended to make you progressively better at the things you were already doing.

[everydaygamer]

So far I'm enjoying forsaken, the campaign has been fun and I've already taken down a few barons. Don't have much time to play thanks to school but I'm hoping to sit down and get through the rest of the campaign over the weekend.

[ryanmahaffe]

I facepalm at people like you.

"The end game sucks" "there's nothing to do at max level" "this game blows"

That's because you're playing it like a fucking MMO. Games like WoW have ruined the way people expect games to go. I stayed away from Destiny 2 for the longest time because people kept saying how absolutely terrible it was. I finally got it from the Humble Bundle Monthly and decided to give it a shot. What I found was an absolutely wonderful game. The story was really cool to follow, though I felt it was sort of short. And just running around doing the events, mindlessly killing the baddies I found to be a lot of fun. The only reason I stopped playing was in anticipation for the expansion. But then I realized that all people are complaining about is QQ da endgame suxors, so all they're focusing on is the end game.

Everyone like you just skips through the ACTUAL game, and expects there to be a plethora and constant flow of content once they get to the end game. And when there isn't, you voice your opinion on every media at the loudest volume you can. So companies like Bungie start producing garbage games, and you complain even louder. YOU are the reason Destiny 2 isn't any fun. Or I should say, YOU are the reason you aren't having any fun, because you're looking at it like you would WoW.

Well maybe if they didn't design the content to be exactly like an mmorpg people wouldn't play it like one. They even said in D1 that the game begins at max level with raiding and endgame strikes.

BuT iTs ThE PlAYeRs fAuLT!!1

"Hey guys check out check out the new expansion Destiny 2: Forsaken, we improved the endgame and added new content for endgame players and added new raids and strikes

StOp pLAyiNG iT LikE aN MmorPG!11

[Jtbrig7390]

"The end game sucks" "there's nothing to do at max level" "this game blows"

That's because you're playing it like a fucking MMO.

Here is a idea: Maybe they shouldn't design the game like a halfassed fucken MMO.

1) Dungeons: Check
2) Raids: Check
3) Crafting system: Check-ish
4) Leveling system: Check
5) Daily Quests: Check
6) Gear Grind System with ilvl (light level or whatever the fuck they want to call it now) Check fucken mate.

They copied wow's setup without the massive open world. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its not a fucken moose its a duck.

Oh and lets not forget their whole "The game begins at Endgame" line.

[Eleccybubb]

Well maybe if they didn't design the content to be exactly like an mmorpg people wouldn't play it like one. They even said in D1 that the game begins at max level with raiding and endgame strikes.

BuT iTs ThE PlAYeRs fAuLT!!1

"Hey guys check out check out the new expansion Destiny 2: Forsaken, we improved the endgame and added new content for endgame players and added new raids and strikes

StOp pLAyiNG iT LikE aN MmorPG!11

I just find it fucking hilarious when people blame the faults of a game on the players rather than the developers.

Nobody told them to design Destiny 2 the way they did, nobody told them for example for more Eververse content and at the end of the day anyone who pulls that line well it's simple shit tier deflection.

Bungie were in complete control of this project. And it was mismanaged.

[dope_danny]

I just find it fucking hilarious when people blame the faults of a game on the players rather than the developers.

Nobody told them to design Destiny 2 the way they did, nobody told them for example for more Eververse content and at the end of the day anyone who pulls that line well it's simple shit tier deflection.

Bungie were in complete control of this project. And it was mismanaged.

Honestly i think its telling almost 100% of the time the people getting their rabid brand defence on usually start with "i never played the first game but-" which really explains their response.

[RuneDK]

I added it all up the other day. In D1 if you bought the base game and every DLC you paid $165-170 over 3 years. For D2 if you've done the same you've now paid the same price except we're only 1 year into the game, but this content will last until about fall next year when they likely release another DLC + annual pass. It's looking like D2 will be $75 more expensive after its entire cycle and you had to deal with a year of bullshit, bad content, and lies from Bungie.

They way they're forcing you to buy all previous DLC in order to play the new DLC is also bullshit.

If they wanted more players to come back they needed to gain some good will from the players that aren't happy with them. The annual pass should have been free and the content from it should have been the extra content Bungie said we're going to get from Eververse that we never got.

I do want to play it, but I'm gonna vote with my wallet this time and say fuck you to Bungie. I've always been a day 1 buyer for all the content they've released up until now too.

Wait, you need to have all the previous DLC to even be able to play the expansion? That DLC should come with the expansion purchase as a "good will" for fucking up the base game so much. If you upgraded digitally and had DLC you got like $10-15 off the expansion as well so people who did buy the DLC didn't feel ripped off for buying it early. What douchery here. Thanks for your post, I'll absolutely be avoiding this now.

[dope_danny]

Wait, you need to have all the previous DLC to even be able to play the expansion? That DLC should come with the expansion purchase as a "good will" for fucking up the base game so much. If you upgraded digitally and had DLC you got like $10-15 off the expansion as well so people who did buy the DLC didn't feel ripped off for buying it early. What douchery here. Thanks for your post, I'll absolutely be avoiding this now.

It already costs more than the entire D1-Rise of Iron experience cost in real world cash. WITH the monstrously predatory eververse on top of it.

[Enkrypt]

Lol @ all the people acting like $40-60 is just TOO MUCH MONEY. I get it, you guys have "principles" and you're gonna vote with your money, but listen, no one really cares. It's cool to talk about to you, kinda like how talking about how veganism is cool to other vegans.

I'd like to see this thread turn into a: "Playing Destiny 2, how do you guys feel about X feature?" Or "Struggling on this boss, can anyone offer suggestions?" But instead we have an echo chamber of all the salty kids who are going to teach Bungie a lesson with their $40 disguised as "[Megathread] Destiny"! I'm not shaming voicing a negative opinion. And I'm not saying the game is perfect. But for fuck's sake, can we talk about the game in the game's thread and not how "wise" you are for clutching on to your $40 like a life raft? Or can we just shut this shit down? It's just a thread for negative moaning at this point and more often than not, actual discussion for the game is swept away by "hurr saving my forty dollars! here's 14 reasons why I'm not buying the expansion"!

[Eleccybubb]

Lol @ all the people acting like $40-60 is just TOO MUCH MONEY. I get it, you guys have "principles" and you're gonna vote with your money, but listen, no one really cares. It's cool to talk about to you, kinda like how talking about how veganism is cool to other vegans.

I'd like to see this thread turn into a: "Playing Destiny 2, how do you guys feel about X feature?" Or "Struggling on this boss, can anyone offer suggestions?" But instead we have an echo chamber of all the salty kids who are going to teach Bungie a lesson with their $40 disguised as "[Megathread] Destiny"! I'm not shaming voicing a negative opinion. And I'm not saying the game is perfect. But for fuck's sake, can we talk about the game in the game's thread and not how "wise" you are for clutching on to your $40 like a life raft? Or can we just shut this shit down? It's just a thread for negative moaning at this point and more often than not, actual discussion for the game is swept away by "hurr saving my forty dollars! here's 14 reasons why I'm not buying the expansion"!

Well you know. If Bungie had made a good game we would have discussed that.

And it's not about the cost itself. It's that they expect more after garnering so much bad will rather than trying to garner some good will.

[Bugg]

Positives? Art is Great & gunplay feels good.
Nothing new, we had this in D1.

[GoKs]

Lol @ all the people acting like $40-60 is just TOO MUCH MONEY. I get it, you guys have "principles" and you're gonna vote with your money, but listen, no one really cares. It's cool to talk about to you, kinda like how talking about how veganism is cool to other vegans.

I'd like to see this thread turn into a: "Playing Destiny 2, how do you guys feel about X feature?" Or "Struggling on this boss, can anyone offer suggestions?" But instead we have an echo chamber of all the salty kids who are going to teach Bungie a lesson with their $40 disguised as "[Megathread] Destiny"! I'm not shaming voicing a negative opinion. And I'm not saying the game is perfect. But for fuck's sake, can we talk about the game in the game's thread and not how "wise" you are for clutching on to your $40 like a life raft? Or can we just shut this shit down? It's just a thread for negative moaning at this point and more often than not, actual discussion for the game is swept away by "hurr saving my forty dollars! here's 14 reasons why I'm not buying the expansion"!

Dude just put them on ignore, no use trying to communicate with them, they dont add any usefull info any way. I have like 3 post per page that is not hidden due to my ignore list, makes for much better reading, dont have to skim through the salty posts.