Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Breccia]

If he's cooperating then he's just sold out Trump.

We don't know that. But he's sold out Klimmik, that's for sure.

If Manafort has anything at all on Trump, he's in his last chance to use it. As @cubby pointed out and I gloated about because I'm an asshole, NYState is waiting in the wings, and those dropped charges can be re-filed if Manafort so much as farts in an elevator. Manafort is staring at a life sentence and losing all his family's money. He held the line long as he could, but it's over.

I still maintain it's possible Manafort has nothing on Trump. I find that unlikely as he was at the Trump Tower meeting. But I maintain it's possible.

[cubby]

If he's cooperating then he's just sold out Trump. We should shortly hear that the joint defense agreement between Trump & Manafort has been terminated as a result.

I guess Manafort decided that spending the rest of his life in jail wasn't a positive, and given everything we know about him it shouldn't be a surprise that he's u-turned. He's always been a huckster on the look out for advantage for himself, and u-turning to cooperate fits that profile.

Now that he's done that I think we can expect him to do everything he possibly can to absolutely minimize his jail time, and that means spilling the beans on everything and anything he knows. After signing the cooperation agreement that is all that he has left.

As for the Trump - Russia conspiracy this will have blown it wide open. Manafort is at the center of that nexus. He will know everything. I'd also expect the CIA, NSA, etc, to try and get their hands on him, as he is basically a long standing 30 year Russian agent who has now been turned. As such he'd be a gold mine of information for them to pump dry.

Agreed.

A couple of interesting legal notes about plea deals.

1. Timing. The timing of this is before his sentencing for the previous trial that was a mix of guilty and deadlocked. This means that his cooperation NOW, will help secure a lesser sentence down the road. We should expect sentencing in that trail to be significantly delayed. Don't expect a retrial on the charges that the jury deadlocked on. Speaking of which . . .

2. Statue of Limitations. The plea deal includes a hold on the clock running on remaining charges against Manafort. For those that don't know, a Statue of Limitations is a legal term of art that requires charges to be brought forth within a specific period of time, based on the charges. If miss the SoL window, the charges can't be brought up in court, ever. This plea deals (in fact, all of Mueller's deals as far as I can tell) puts a stay on that clock, so if Manafort fucks up (that is not a legal term of art), lies, doesn't cooperate fully, etc., those charges can be refiled - no matter how much time has passed. This can include state charges. I.e. no Pardon.

The result, if it wasn't already clear, is that Mueller has Manafort by the balls.

[kaelleria]

Manafort gave up a lot...

He has no more 5th ammendment right. He gave up the right to appeal and his lawyers won't be present during his interviews...
Don't have a source link yet, but that's what CNN is reporting on TV right now.

[alexw]

We don't know that. But he's sold out Klimmik, that's for sure.

If Manafort has anything at all on Trump, he's in his last chance to use it. As @cubby pointed out and I gloated about because I'm an asshole, NYState is waiting in the wings, and those dropped charges can be re-filed if Manafort so much as farts in an elevator. Manafort is staring at a life sentence and losing all his family's money. He held the line long as he could, but it's over.

I still maintain it's possible Manafort has nothing on Trump. I find that unlikely as he was at the Trump Tower meeting. But I maintain it's possible.

I find that hard to believe. But even if he has nothing on Trump personally I doubt it will help Trump much, because the main thing Manafort can give in detail is the Russian plan to make Trump president from the Russian side of things. Think of the implications of that, Manafort getting on the stand and admitting to being a Russian agent of influence who was directed to make Trump president, and then laying out in detail all the specifics of how he went about to do that, and the why's behind it.

There will be absolutely no plausible deniability left and it will all be spelt out in excruciating detail by the man at the center of this Russian intelligence operation. How could he survive that without getting impeached?

- - - Updated - - -

Manafort gave up a lot...

He has no more 5th ammendment right. He gave up the right to appeal and his lawyers won't be present during his interviews...
Don't have a source link yet, but that's what CNN is reporting on TV right now.

He's a Russian agent who's just publicly turned on his paymasters and is going to give their opponents everything on a platter. Not much need for lawyers and the fifth in such a scenario.

[Deleted]

lol @ the details.

Guess Manafort is a pretty poor russian stooge if his lobbying group met President Obama and VP Biden in May 2013 where they "delivered the message of 'Not Letting the Russians Steal Ukraine From The West.'"

And the whole email correspondance which shows Manafort's strategy for Ukraine integration with EU, to ensure Ukraine does not "fall to Russia".

Wheres that pro kremlin shit now?

[Kujako]

The question becomes why Mueller’s team would accept such a deal in that case. They have to get something out of it.

My theory is pardons are gonna rain down after the midterms.

[Thepersona]

"Judge: Manafort agreed to cooperate 'fully and truthfully' with Mueller"

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...y-with-mueller


Manafort has flipped. I repeat, manafort has flipped. @Skroe, where are you in this great moment?

[cubby]

Manafort has flipped. I repeat, manafort has flipped. @Skroe, where are you in this great moment?

He created this great moment with his sacrifice.

[mvaliz]

I was worried at first, but it seems the #skroeban delivered once again with the news of the Manafort Pleadeal. ^_^

Dumbass Dump is going to go reactionary mode at some point, until he gets orders from somebody else...

[Edge-]

I've got a bit of a wild hair wondering whether or not Manafort is legit in this plea/cooperation or whether or not he's setting himself up for a pardon (and potentially trying to get some info about the investigation to pass to the Trump legal team).

I feel like I may need some tinfoil headgear for this, but given that Manafort/Trumps lawyers have been in constant communication and that Trump has apparently repeatedly discussed pardoning Manafort I can't help but feel like this is a very real possibility given how fucking batshit insane "normal" has become.

[Ripster42]

lol @ the details.

Guess Manafort is a pretty poor russian stooge if his lobbying group met President Obama and VP Biden in May 2013 where they "delivered the message of 'Not Letting the Russians Steal Ukraine From The West.'"

And the whole email correspondance which shows Manafort's strategy for Ukraine integration with EU, to ensure Ukraine does not "fall to Russia".

Wheres that pro kremlin shit now?

He's doing it on behalf of yanu. The president of ukraine, leader of the party of regions, the pro-russia party of ukraine. It's an attempt to keep pro-russian party in power. It's bullshit to disguise the fact that yanu is already in putin's pocket. Their military didn't extract him for no reason.

[mvaliz]

My theory is pardons are gonna rain down after the midterms.

You sure Simpleton “Stable Genius” Stump isn’t going to see this as an act of “disloyalty” and lose his shit instead about Manafort?

[Blur4stuff]

They need to release a statement in Russian, "don't worry I'm not flipping on you" so he actually survives long enough to flip on Trump.

[mvaliz]

I've got a bit of a wild hair wondering whether or not Manafort is legit in this plea/cooperation or whether or not he's setting himself up for a pardon (and potentially trying to get some info about the investigation to pass to the Trump legal team).

I feel like I may need some tinfoil headgear for this, but given that Manafort/Trumps lawyers have been in constant communication and that Trump has apparently repeatedly discussed pardoning Manafort I can't help but feel like this is a very real possibility given how fucking batshit insane "normal" has become.

Unless Manafort got in contact with somebody while in jail and made a separate deal - there’s no way Dumbfuck Donnie Deplorable Dump would think this far ahead.

[Deleted]

He's doing it on behalf of yanu. The president of ukraine, leader of the party of regions, the pro-russia party of ukraine. It's an attempt to keep pro-russian party in power. It's bullshit to disguise the fact that yanu is already in putin's pocket. Their military didn't extract him for no reason.

I'll say this again, Yanukovych is pro Yanukovych. He is a classic money launderer/oligarch/robber. Most of his loot was actually in Austria (where he would have prefered to end up, not Russia). Hence why Manafort was lobbying the shit out of the EU and USA for him. To simply think hes putins bitch is a gross misunderstanding of Ukraine. People adapt to the way the cards fall, its why hes in Russia. Putin, Trump, Yanukovych and other oligarchs all fundementally want the same thing which is just a coincidence, to loot as much as they can and keep it. It really is that simple.

Don't know if you've read Woodwards book yet. But he dismisses the Russia investigation as a fools errand pretty much saying that Trumps crimes will be found elsewhere (my guess is most of his kickbacks came from the east).

[Edge-]

I've got a bit of a wild hair wondering whether or not Manafort is legit in this plea/cooperation or whether or not he's setting himself up for a pardon (and potentially trying to get some info about the investigation to pass to the Trump legal team).

I feel like I may need some tinfoil headgear for this, but given that Manafort/Trumps lawyers have been in constant communication and that Trump has apparently repeatedly discussed pardoning Manafort I can't help but feel like this is a very real possibility given how fucking batshit insane "normal" has become.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/trum...the-truth.html

Will Paul Manafort tell special counsel Robert Mueller the truth? Trump's legal team can't make up its mind.

After Manafort, Trump's former campaign chairman, agreed to cooperate with prosecutors working for the special counsel on Friday, President Donald Trump's legal team released a statement attributed to Rudy Giuliani, Trump's outside counsel in charge of the Russia probe.

"Once again an investigation has concluded with a plea having nothing to do with President Trump or the Trump campaign. The reason: the President did nothing wrong and Paul Manafort will tell the truth."

Minutes later, they seemed to reconsider. A "corrected" statement removed the bit about Manafort telling the truth. That statement said, in full:

Once again an investigation has concluded with a plea having nothing to do with President Trump or the Trump campaign. The reason: the President did nothing wrong.

HOLY SHIT GUYS I WAS JUST FUCKING JOKING

Unless Manafort got in contact with somebody while in jail and made a separate deal - there’s no way Dumbfuck Donnie Deplorable Dump would think this far ahead.

No, but some of his legal team may.

[Breccia]

Oh man, the news is pouring like a Cat 1 hurricane over Bumblefuck, SC.

Let's count 'em down.

1) Within minutes, Trump's legal team sent out two back-to-back statements:
A) Trump did nothing wrong and Manafort will tell the truth.
B) Trump did nothing wrong.

Looks like the next move is to call Manafort a liar. Like Cage. And Cohen. And Papadontpreach. And Flynn. And...

2) Manafort plead guilty to EVERYTHING. This includes the 10 hung jury counts. The sentencing guidelines are 210 to 262 months.

3) But the prosecution can lower those based on how he cooperates.

4) Manafort forfeit a chunk of assets, including his Trump Tower property. I wonder: does the FBI now "own" that? Can they set up shop, rent-free?

5) Manafort was offered the chance to have all 25 charges in one trial. He declined. Now we see why: he's smart.

Manafort knew full well that the evidence at the first trial (he spent how much on suits?) was going to be an issue. He didn't know about that one juror, of course, and could not plan based on that. But he could say "let's do a trial run, har har, and see how it goes. If I beat that, I can try to beat the second one." And it did not go well at all. Leaving himself a backup plan (the ability to plead out before being found guilty) was a smart move. He only faces 8 guilty findings now, making his total sentence much lighter than if he'd gambled it all, and lost.

To the best of my knowledge, every American Mueller has indicted has been found guilty, plead guilty, or both.

Are we tired of winning yet?

- - - Updated - - -

Well let's wander around the front pages. What's the top headline at each spot?

NBC: Manafort pleads guilty.
CBS: Manafort pleads guilty.
ABC: The hurricane, Manafort is #2
NYTimes: The hurricane. Manafort is #2.
Reuters: Millions of homeowners trapped in debt. Manafort is #2.
USA Today: Manafort pleads guilty.
NPR: Manafort pleads guilty.
FOX News: The Democrats plan to shut 1 out of every 3 coal plants in 2020. The hurricane is #2. No mention of Manafort.
Breitbart: The Kavanaugh letter is a hoax, the $50,000 curtains are a hoax, Google is rigged, Manafort is #7.

[cubby]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...robert-mueller

Welp, didn't think it would happen. Like many others had said, I also thought he would hold out for a pardon after finishing up his set of trials.

This does take the money laundering RICO bit off the table.

Interestingly enough, Mueller and federal prosecutors never charged him with a RICO indictment. And that is specifically required to enact the statute.

[Breccia]

Interestingly enough, Mueller and federal prosecutors never charged him with a RICO indictment.

Yet. The RICO charge, if one happens, can be filed later.

EDIT: Manafort admitted the people he worked with knew they were working for Russia/Ukraine. More charges could easily happen based on his testimony.

Also, for those people saying "betting on a pardon" he's literally doing that. A pardon doesn't return seized/forfeit assets.

[Kujako]

You sure Simpleton “Stable Genius” Stump isn’t going to see this as an act of “disloyalty” and lose his shit instead about Manafort?

Given the mutual defense agreement, I think this is all planned.