Cartoonists discuss 'racist' Serena caricature

[Shinzai]

While we are splitting hairs here... the ump is clearly depicted as white, and Osaka's skin is a shade darker. Then Serena's is a shade darker than Osaka's.

You know, exactly how it is in real life.

People also chose to forget that Osaka quite often rolls with blonde hair, depending on whether she's dyed it or not.

[Mormolyce]

Mark Wright is a well known caricature artist in Australia. He drawings basically always look over the top..as you know Caricatures are meant to.

He's also not funny, so that wasn't out of the ordinary either.

I guess the most charitable interpretation of this is that Mark Wright is bad at caricatures, which is why it looks nothing like Serena Williams.

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Basing it how? You don't know these people. Are there only white people in the Czech Republic? You have no reason to assume people are white.

It's like 95% ethnic Czechs, so he's not exactly wrong.

I mean, "white" isn't a real race, so it's kind of hard to say exactly, but Czechs are pretty typically "white" by the arbitrary common definition of "whiteness".

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That awkward moment when stupid people watched explanations of the "This Is America" music video and now use Jim Crow for every other race related argument.

The artist over-exaggerated Serena's features. The features in question happen to be considered classically black. There are no other features that a caricature would exemplify.

She has a big mouth with big lips and big nose.

She has a strong, muscular body compared to the average woman.

This whole incident was ridiculous and overblown, but of course it would happen in todays online politics, pushing gender and weaponizing perceived marginalization.

Some caricatures off the top hits on google images that actually look like her:







This on the other hand looks nothing like her:



I literally thought it was supposed to be a picture of a stereotypical Maori woman when I first saw it.

[LaserChild9]

It's like 95% ethnic Czechs, so he's not exactly wrong..

Still does not make it right to assume.

I mean, "white" isn't a real race, so it's kind of hard to say exactly, but Czechs are pretty typically "white" by the arbitrary common definition of "whiteness".

That's the start of a slippery slope. How long before it's used to justify "cant be racist towards white people".

[Saucexorzski]

Enjoy it. People that compare a system of civil rights violations to a fucking caricature are the best failures of humanity.

i wish i could agree with you, but the reality is they aren't failures of humanity, they are its future.

[Dextroden]

Still does not make it right to assume.



That's the start of a slippery slope. How long before it's used to justify "cant be racist towards white people".

You're far too late to the party on that. The term reverse racism comes to mind for justifying being racist to one group while crying racism is bad.

[Aristeus]

Ok, pretend that you have a black person who's motives aren't honest (like I believe was true of Serena in this case):

Here's what happens every time something bad happens to them. You get:

Black person: This is racist to me.

And according to you, a white person is supposed to take it seriously every single time.

I mean, look man, with this particular incident, the entire crowd was pro Serena. The press was overwhelmingly pro Serena. The "Serena comes back from motherhood and won the US Open" pieces were basically already written and the red carpet was ready to be rolled out.

But she lost, and somehow it's... that she's treated unfairly? That everyone is racist/sexist (choose your "ist" it doesn't matter) and out to get her (by making sure that another black woman wins?).

Look at the reaction of the officials she calls over... they're clearly uncomfortable and don't want to touch the situation with a 10 foot pole. This is a disaster from their perspective... Serena winning would have been great for business and now they have a PR nightmare. They're not sitting there saying "ha ha ha we got her again!"

...and Serena knows this. Which is why she's quickly willing to throw grenades at everyone and make their lives miserable because she lost.

It's so exhausting to listen to these narratives, makes you want to just completely tune out and just live life like a normal person instead of full of paranoia about prejudice around every corner.

Taken seriously all the time? No I shut down black people who call racism on things that aren’t racist all the time. “I can’t get a job because I’m black” one of my friends said I told him you can’t get a job because you have no skills and you’re lazy. Nothing to do with race this area is diverse.

It should be questioned and they should be listened to to understand why.

[Dextroden]

Taken seriously all the time? No I shut down black people who call racism on things that aren’t racist all the time. “I can’t get a job because I’m black” one of my friends said I told him you can’t get a job because you have no skills and you’re lazy. Nothing to do with race this area is diverse.

It should be questioned and they should be listened to to understand why.

Yes yes. We believe you, person that launches into angry outbursts about white people.

[Aristeus]

Yes yes. We believe you, person that launches into angry outbursts about white people.

I say the same shit to all racist no matter there race, not my fault this site is mostly white.

[Shinzai]

He's also not funny, so that wasn't out of the ordinary either.

I guess the most charitable interpretation of this is that Mark Wright is bad at caricatures, which is why it looks nothing like Serena Williams.

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It's like 95% ethnic Czechs, so he's not exactly wrong.

I mean, "white" isn't a real race, so it's kind of hard to say exactly, but Czechs are pretty typically "white" by the arbitrary common definition of "whiteness".

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Some caricatures off the top hits on google images that actually look like her:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/qoEWjOz.png[/ img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/tnJSh1T.png[/ img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/kro2Rpe.png[/ img]

This on the other hand looks nothing like her:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/VhbsOV8.png[/ img]

I literally thought it was supposed to be a picture of a stereotypical Maori woman when I first saw it.

That just makes me wonder what kind of stereotypes you have in your head of Maori people, outside of the All Blacks.

And the picture looks plenty like her, just over exaggerated, as I've said.



If any of the caricatures you listed were actually in a shouting motion, there would be way more similarities. The artist drew her throwing a tantrum. If he'd drawn her standing up straight and just angry, it would've been a different picture altogether.

[Themius]

That just makes me wonder what kind of stereotypes you have in your head of Maori people, outside of the All Blacks.

And the picture looks plenty like her, just over exaggerated, as I've said.



If any of the caricatures you listed were actually in a shouting motion, there would be way more similarities. The artist drew her throwing a tantrum. If he'd drawn her standing up straight and just angry, it would've been a different picture altogether.

[Deleted]

And she clearly isn't drawn as a baby. She's clearly being drawn as an ape.

Can you make a detailed description where you see an ape?

Not to mention we are all apes. Just in case you didnt know.

[Deleted]

Firstly, you being an professional artist doesn't have anything to do with this. If you do not want to upset people with your cartoons then you can not make any, because people just get upset by different things, especially if you place them into context. Luckily there isn't such a right as "the right not to get upset".

If you want to claim that this cartoon is racist then you have to point out what exactly is racist about this cartoon. Thus far none have been able to point out how this cartoon is racist.

Many people have pointed out it's a sambo cartoon.

Google them and then come back.

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Newest phrase made meaningless by overuse: Jim Crow.

Who knew being mocked for acting like a baby because you didn't win a competition was the equivalent of civil rights violations? I guess it does when racism doesn't have much fangs.

Or you have no idea about history.

Google some sambo cartoons then get back to usm

[Dextroden]

Big lips. Dats as racist as a sambo mammy Jim Crow.

[Deleted]

True story. Back in the 90s, when I used AOL (lol) I made an online friend who was born from Chinese immigrants, me and his Chinese friends would play online games together like diablo/starcraft. We were hanging around in a chatroom and one of his Chinese friends decided to troll. He was shouting a lot of racist things about blacks, and immediately people responded calling him redneck, trailer trash, all sorts of racist white names. It was an eye opener about society, here was a Chinese guy making racist comments and they assumed he was white.

I believe you.

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Playing the race card when you're acting like a cunt and get caricaturized is black privilege at play. Black privilege exists. Being able to cry "RACISM!!" at anything you disagree with that comes from a white person is part of it. It's dangerous now and it'll only get worse. Exciting times.

Google sambo cartoons, then fuck off.

[Shinzai]

Google sambo cartoons, then fuck off.

It's got fuck all to do with sambo cartoons. Stop stating it like some form of defence.

[Deleted]

It's got fuck all to do with sambo cartoons. Stop stating it like some form of defence.

Except it's exactly like sambo cartoons.

Are you Stevie wonder in disguise?

[LaserChild9]

I say the same shit to all racist no matter there race, not my fault this site is mostly white.

You are still here then? You must have just forgotten to clarify that little thing I asked you, why does my skin colour matter for this discussion? You said it was relevant then didn't tell me why.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post50145539

[Shinzai]

Except it's exactly like sambo cartoons.

Are you Stevie wonder in disguise?

No. It's not. The only comparison you can make is that Serena has a big mouth.

Name 1 other thing that attributes this to a Sambo or gollywog drawing.

[Mistame]

Attacking people who are white = racist?

No, but attacking them because they're white is. Which is why the cartoon isn't "racist". The author didn't attack her race, he attacked her behavior. Exaggerating one's features is how caricatures work and is not "racist" just because the person is black.

But he is assuming that I am WHITE. How does he know I am not Asian, Hispanic or Black? He hasn't at any point called anyone anything other than white. He has singled out the race that he thinks that anyone that cant see how racist the cartoon is must be white. Again, I ask, why can I not be Asian, Hispanic or Black? That is racism, he has formed an opinion about a race based on something he does not like.

Aside from the fact that you're using "racism" wrong again, it's not inherently "racist" to guess or assume someone's race. That's simply not how that word works.

Except it's exactly like sambo cartoons.

Except that it's not. At best, it's minutely similar.

[Mormolyce]

Exaggerating one's features is how caricatures work and is not "racist" just because the person is black.

A caricature of a black person is not intrinsically racist, no.

But this one pretty much is.

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That just makes me wonder what kind of stereotypes you have in your head of Maori people, outside of the All Blacks.

I'm familiar with the history of ethnic caricature of Polynesian women, as well as "African Americans".

The cartoonist's only defence is that he isn't. Which he hasn't said.

Looks nothing like her. Looks quite a lot like the earlier caricatures I posted though, doesn't it? See the point?

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Still does not make it right to assume.

That's the start of a slippery slope. How long before it's used to justify "cant be racist towards white people".

What the hell are you talking about? That sentence is complete gibberish.